More Dis-array at Plymouth

[Fonda]

I personally don't want to see any club go to the wall just because some charlatans take control and run it badly. Plymouth Argyle is about the supporters - it's not their fault the club was run by clowns who cheated people out of money. Yes they have some idiot supporters, but all clubs do (we've got our share). Doesn't mean the proper, decent supporters deserve to lose their club. In many cases, a club they've been supporting for many years, through good and bad. Put yourslef in their position - if our club was taken over by people with ideas above their station and went bust, would you consider that we the supporters deserve that?

[hector]

Of course PAFC have fans that are just normal fine blokes and women - I work with a couple - but they do also have this ugly side to their fanbase that is more prevalent than most clubs.

However, that is not the issue for me.

It is simply the fact that they pay 0.07p in every £, wipe their debts clear and they will, even if it takes a couple of years, regroup and be better than us again, when in fact they should be made to pay every single creditor back until what they owe is clear before they start offering good players two year contracts on better wages than they were last season. How can that be justfied?

[cambgull]

Put yourslef in their position - if our club was taken over by people with ideas above their station and went bust, would you consider that we the supporters deserve that?

Well what we're talking about here is business, if you have a shop you like to go to every week, do you "deserve" to be a customer?

[gullintwoplaces]

Of course PAFC have fans that are just normal fine blokes and women - I work with a couple - but they do also have this ugly side to their fanbase that is more prevalent than most clubs.

However, that is not the issue for me.

It is simply the fact that they pay 0.07p in every £, wipe their debts clear and they will, even if it takes a couple of years, regroup and be better than us again, when in fact they should be made to pay every single creditor back until what they owe is clear before they start offering good players two year contracts on better wages than they were last season. How can that be justfied?

Hector, your last point is spot on and I completely agree. The problem though is that you have genuine fans who have supported clubs through thick & thin, and then a charlatan turns up and: your club is insolvent/your club's ground is sold/your ticket price is doubled (delete as appropriate). There is very poor governance in football generally, and many owners/directors of clubs are about as "fit and proper" as The Kray Twins. I feel very sorry for the fans, as I remember Mr Roberts with great pain, and I can't offer any solution other than a thorough cleaning up exercise. However, with the calibre of those in charge of FAs, Leagues and FIFA, the chances of this happening are close to zero.

[Fonda]

Of course PAFC have fans that are just normal fine blokes and women - I work with a couple - but they do also have this ugly side to their fanbase that is more prevalent than most clubs.

However, that is not the issue for me.

It is simply the fact that they pay 0.07p in every £, wipe their debts clear and they will, even if it takes a couple of years, regroup and be better than us again, when in fact they should be made to pay every single creditor back until what they owe is clear before they start offering good players two year contracts on better wages than they were last season. How can that be justfied?

Take your point, but what is the alternative? Is it 'more fair' for the actions of a few underhand businessmen to deprive a community of it's football club? Because that is the alternative. Clubs get bank-rolled to undeserved success all the time. I'm personally more offended by a club like Crawley, a club with no support whatsoever to speak of, buying their way up the Leagues than Argyle getting themselves back on their feet. Perhaps this happening will make their supprt a little more humble. it'd be nice to think so. In an ideal world, they'd carry on existing, with their creditors paid off in full, but is that really an option?

[basil75]

Personally, I'd prefer a club to go bust, than someone's livelihood destroyed as a result of the club's actions.

Some creditors may be businesses who are already struggling (likely given the economy) and such a ridiculous payout could tip them over the edge. All employees lose their jobs and in the case of small businesses, the owners may become personally liable to bankruptcy - completely screwing up the lives of themselves and their families.

On the other hand, the club goes bust and the supporters lose their club. But this is temporary - a club the size of Plymouth will reform in the lower leagues and will probably be back in the league within 6-10 years and will have plenty of promotions to celebrate along the way. It won't destroy the lives of fans - it will just make supporting the club a bit rubbish for a few more years.

[Fonda]

Yep, it's a fair point. Though people who 'invest' in football clubs must surely be aware of the dangers by now.

What really needs to happen is that the 'fit and proper' test for football club owners is made 'fit and proper' for use!

[cosmic74]

Hi guys

My first post in over 3 months as I have been out of the country, well out of any country, at sea to be precise with only emails from a few friends keeping me informed with what is going on back home.

I am sorry that my first post has to be on this subject, as I lived in Plymouth for many years, and although friends and neighbours used to take the mick out of me for being a Torquay fan, there was always a friendly rilvary.

Anyway, last night I was visiting family in Tavistock and on my walk back from my brothers to my dads house, I walked past Langsford Park (home of Tavistock A.F.C) who had a friendly against Argyle last night. I was chatting to an Argyle fan as he walked back to his car, I felt quite sad as he talked about the state of his club at the moment. He has been a fan for nearly 40 years, and he couldnt believe that people who were supposed to be Plymouth people and Plymouth footy fans have let this happen to the club. He did say one thing though when I asked how they would get on in League 2 this season. He said 'I can only hope that we keep our league status come next May, however the team to watch in that league will be Torquay, now that is a team that can play football'. I didn't get his name, but I sincerly hope his beloved club are still a league club come next May, or it will be a very sad day for westcountry football.

Andy

[Father Jack]

Personally, I'd prefer a club to go bust, than someone's livelihood destroyed as a result of the club's actions.

Some creditors may be businesses who are already struggling (likely given the economy) and such a ridiculous payout could tip them over the edge. All employees lose their jobs and in the case of small businesses, the owners may become personally liable to bankruptcy - completely screwing up the lives of themselves and their families.

On the other hand, the club goes bust and the supporters lose their club. But this is temporary - a club the size of Plymouth will reform in the lower leagues and will probably be back in the league within 6-10 years and will have plenty of promotions to celebrate along the way. It won't destroy the lives of fans - it will just make supporting the club a bit rubbish for a few more years.

Basil, it wouldnt matter if the club goes bust or goes down the route it is going.
The "non-football" creditors would still not get more than a pittance back, so it wouldnt make any difference to those that are owed money (apart from any satisfaction they may get from Plymouth folding).

[yellowforever]

Apparently if they get relegated this season then they won't be a club any longer. It's League 2 or bust from them, and that's from someone who's in the 'know'.

[Richinns]

Apparently if they get relegated this season then they won't be a club any longer. It's League 2 or bust from them, and that's from someone who's in the 'know'.

They might not even survive until Christmas - regardless.

[tufcbrett]

The thing is, it has been on the cards for a while and im suprised they are still going and have managed to bring some half decent players in.
I just hope like what Richinns said there be lucky to be around at christmas and i want to see the game on the 2nd of Jan.

[Richinns]

Regardless of feelings towards Argyle - seeing them go under would only be bad for the South West as a whole. This is the weakest area of the country for football and getting players down here is hard enough already without wiping one of the three league clubs out.

I hope they stay afloat - both for us and for their fans. Think how you would feel if we were in their position. Football without Torquay would just be empty for me.

[Regiment]

Regardless of feelings towards Argyle - seeing them go under would only be bad for the South West as a whole. This is the weakest area of the country for football and getting players down here is hard enough already without wiping one of the three league clubs out.

I hope they stay afloat - both for us and for their fans. Think how you would feel if we were in their position. Football without Torquay would just be empty for me.

with you 100% there Rich.

[NA Gull]

I think people are too precious about football clubs and depriving the community of a club. Football should be like any other business; if they are bankrupt, they get wound up. I dont see why football is different and I feel that it will take a football league club for others to realise that they wont always be bought out and saved. Too many clubs are taking massive financial risk and living beyond their means chasing the dream.