Little club syndrome...

[yellow]

I get where you are coming from with regards professionalism Fonda.

I guess that for the most part we get what we deserve. The requirement for it must come from the top of the organisation. Now who is actually in charge? or do we have a committee syndrome where everyone thinks someone else is dealing with it?

I am reminded of a line in an old textbook. An organisation cannot be fundamentally better than its Chief Executive.

First we had Colin Lee. Now we have?

[hector]

Fonda - I get what you are saying but to I imagine that most similar size clubs are run in a similar manner. I don't necessarily agree that we appear amateur - we just can't spend the money to have professional services in all areas. I think as someone said earlier the main voice as to the small club view has been Paul Buckle. But also as fans I see that we thrive on it as well

Cambgull - of course it matters where a player goes, the higher the level the better the player must be hence a higher fee. I guess my point is that while O'Kane has potential he is not ready made premier league, championship or maybe even league 1 player - so talking £350k upwards is dreamland.

Hector - in reference to Exeter chiefs, is not a large part of their growth due to the general growth in the popularity of rugby union that has happened in the last 10 years and more so since the world cup win?

Well, if that was true, why haven't Tics grown? Or Plymouth Albion? What has happened to Bristol RFC? It is nothing to do with the World Cup win of almost a decade ago. It is to do with the way the club has built itself up, promoted itself, it's matchday experience. Tony Rowe had a vision, and whilst he has the cash to back it up, he needed supporters to go along with it. Chiefs averaged 9500 last season compared to probably around 200 a decade ago.

It is not beyond TUFC to promote itself better or to project a more dynamic image, rather than 'we are little, cuddly Torquay who everyone likes'.

Chiefs attract whole families, the experience around the ground of bars, food outlets, the announcer at the ground. It is all about an experience. There is much that can be learned about the way Chiefs have reached out beyond far Exeter. they have advantages that we will never have, in terms of situation, travel links etc...butthey put TUFC to shame in terms of professional approach.

[BritishGAS]

Well, if that was true, why haven't Tics grown? Or Plymouth Albion? What has happened to Bristol RFC? It is nothing to do with the World Cup win of almost a decade ago. It is to do with the way the club has built itself up, promoted itself, it's matchday experience. Tony Rowe had a vision, and whilst he has the cash to back it up, he needed supporters to go along with it. Chiefs averaged 9500 last season compared to probably around 200 a decade ago.

It is not beyond TUFC to promote itself better or to project a more dynamic image, rather than 'we are little, cuddly Torquay who everyone likes'.

Chiefs attract whole families, the experience around the ground of bars, food outlets, the announcer at the ground. It is all about an experience. There is much that can be learned about the way Chiefs have reached out beyond far Exeter. they have advantages that we will never have, in terms of situation, travel links etc...butthey put TUFC to shame in terms of professional approach.

Bristol RFC got shafted by Exeter Chiefs. Bristol RFC won The Championship by a country mile and battered everybody and finished top of the pile comprehensively and Exteter finished miles behind. Yet Exeter raised their game in a one off and beat Bristol in the final to gain promotion. That is why I no longer follow Rugby Union as that rule is a complete joke. What is the point of playing a whole season to finish top and then you can play a one off game against a side that finishes 6th to see who gains promotion? Its ludicrous. The famous Bristol RFC are struggling financialy now and a micky mouse club like Exeter Chiefs are getting rewarded it makes my blood boil.

Hopefully when they move in with us at The UWE Stadium they will again be the Rugby power they once were.

Anyway rant over

[Dutchgull]

Aww poor old Bristol...................

[ferrarilover]

Blimey, someone from Bristol thinks someone else is Mickey Mouse, how unusual. Still, at least he didn't mention attendances...

Matt.

[hector]

Bristol RFC got shafted by Exeter Chiefs. Bristol RFC won The Championship by a country mile and battered everybody and finished top of the pile comprehensively and Exteter finished miles behind. Yet Exeter raised their game in a one off and beat Bristol in the final to gain promotion. That is why I no longer follow Rugby Union as that rule is a complete joke. What is the point of playing a whole season to finish top and then you can play a one off game against a side that finishes 6th to see who gains promotion? Its ludicrous. The famous Bristol RFC are struggling financialy now and a micky mouse club like Exeter Chiefs are getting rewarded it makes my blood boil.

Hopefully when they move in with us at The UWE Stadium they will again be the Rugby power they once were.

Anyway rant over

Bristol got themselves into massive debt to win the regular season (so you could argue they cheated and they won hardly by a country mile and Chiefs were 2nd and beat Bristol over 2 legs - hardly a one off and beat Bristol easily as well) but then I guess you and your Bristol Rovers would not want to take promotion through the play-offs if you finished 7th and went up above a team that finihsed 3rd. Had Torquay gone up a couple of weeks ago, your manager would have achieved an unfair promotion if you apply the logic you are applying to Exeter Chiefs.

[stefano]

After completing the double over Nottingham Forest in mid-January Torquay United went to the top of the table and looked to be heading for the second tier of English football. A sudden collapse of form from Mid-March though saw them without a win in their last 9 games and slipping to 5th in the table. Many reasons were given including influential midfielder Don Mills being recalled by his parent club QPR and Manager John McNeil leaving to take over at Bury, citing the apathy of the Torbay public and stating that the club could not progress on average gates of 8500.

The season? 1949/50.

Plus ca change!

[BritishGAS]

The Play offs are cheating yeah, but I have learnt to live with it. Bristol Rovers have lost play offs against Huddersfield and Northampton despite finishing way ahead of them in the league, and they have also won a Play off when finishing 6th. The old style play offs were a much fairer solution.

Anyway, The Champions still get rewarded in football which is the point. In Rugby Union you play a whole season to finish top of the pile, only for them to say, You dont win anything but you have to play a few more games to determine you goes up? Its a joke. Those games throughout the season became worthless to Bristol and they might as well have just not bothered.

Now because of that a great Rugby club like Bristol are struggling and a tiny tinpot Rugby club like Exeter are being rewarded.

Put it this way if Torquay played 46 games and finished top, and then had to play Accrington Stanley who finished 7th, and lost and didn't get promoted, You would have the huff.

Yeah the rules were in place, so Bristol new what was going to happen, but it still is an absolute joke.

[85gull]

Really, your argument about Bristol RFC has got little to do with just the one season Exeter got promotion. It was about the infrastucture and sound planning of a club like Exeter (who you are calling a tiny tinpot Rugby club despite them staying up in the Prem). Maybe it would be a better idea to get everything sorted before going full tilt at promotion back up to the Guiness Prem.

[hector]

The Play offs are cheating yeah, but I have learnt to live with it. Bristol Rovers have lost play offs against Huddersfield and Northampton despite finishing way ahead of them in the league, and they have also won a Play off when finishing 6th. The old style play offs were a much fairer solution.

Anyway, The Champions still get rewarded in football which is the point. In Rugby Union you play a whole season to finish top of the pile, only for them to say, You dont win anything but you have to play a few more games to determine you goes up? Its a joke. Those games throughout the season became worthless to Bristol and they might as well have just not bothered.

Now because of that a great Rugby club like Bristol are struggling and a tiny tinpot Rugby club like Exeter are being rewarded.

Put it this way if Torquay played 46 games and finished top, and then had to play Accrington Stanley who finished 7th, and lost and didn't get promoted, You would have the huff.

Yeah the rules were in place, so Bristol new what was going to happen, but it still is an absolute joke.

Top out of 12, 3rd out of 12 or 7th...it does not matter. The play-offs exist in rugby and football and are indeed unfair. However, on a point more pertinent to this discussion, Chiefs, because of their infrastruture and professional approach are and were far more geared for Premierhsip rugby than Bristol ever would have been. At best Bristol have been a yo-yo club since the formation of the Premiership.

My original point in mentioning Exeter Chiefs was the example they offer to small clubs. They were a much much smaller club than TUFC a matter of 6 years ago. Now they are a much much bigger club. The most successful club in the region. They had money behind them of course, but there was also ambition and that is something I think our club lacks.

[Plymouthgull]

Hector is essentially right. We can grow as a club IF we show the ambition and planning. Those that say we will always be 'little Torquay' and point to the long standing apathy of the Torbay public as evidence for their argument are effectively admitting defeat. Personally, I hate the tag 'Little Torquay' and find it patronizing particularly when used by our rivals. We CAN grow as a club, as long as WE ALL work hard to achieve it. I bet Stevenage are not thinking about being a 'small club punching above their weight' next season, and yet we outnumbered them 3:1 at OT.
A 5 year development plan with clear targets (including attendance increases) would be a start together with a PROPER and Professional marketing strategy.
Oh yes, please, please will nobody come back and say we must consolidate, not put the club's finances/assests at risk and risk promotion before we are ready (whatever that means?!) - this is just a receipe for same 'same old' and guaranteed to have us seen as a footballing backwater for the next 20 years!!
WE need to show the determination and ambition to GROW.

[exilegull]

Plymouthgull - 5 year plans, targets, marketing strategies - it's all sounds like 'management speak'. What are the tangibles?

A marketing manager will cost the club 40k per year - which player/position cover do we cut to support that. To break even that is at least 100 extra fans every home game - how is that done? Radio advertising is expensive, the Internet is saturated. Cut price deals reduce income short term which we cannot afford unless we take ut out of the playing budget.

It's not admitting defeat by being realistic - we should be ambitious and I would say in the last 4 years the board have pushed the boat out to try and do that. Money has been made available to push for promotion, survival and playoffs this year - we brought Stanley, Robinson and Tomlin to the club in march to help with the push.

Hector - thanks for the additional info on the chiefs as I am not familiar. However i maintain that while the board were progressive they benefitted greatly from the increase in popularity in higher level rugby. I just don't believe there is similar opportunity in football without spending significant money on the playing side which we don't have

[Fonda]

Presumably if we were prepared to offer a 'Marketing Manager' £40,000 per annum, we'd be reasonably confident his ideas would make the club a more attractive proposition? So i guess the idea is - he'd kind of pay for himself (or herself). Who knows, maybe their work would result in an extra 200 through the turnstiles so they would actually do more than cover their own wages. There are no guarantee's, but (without taking risks that endanger the club) sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate.