THE BUDGET

[dawlishmatt]

So Uncle Clarke is losing up to 1 million quid a year pumping his money into the club. So where exactly does all this money go? The club has 24 players under contract including 18 year old Jack Windsor and 20 year old Olaf Koszela. The average attendance at Plainmoor is around 1,900 which brings in around £34,200 ( £18pp) each match. We play 23 home games a season which brings in a total of £786,600. For this example, let's say that this money is used to pay for off field expenses including non playing staff wages, travel and hotel expenses etc. So the only place that losses come from is the players wages.

£1,000,000 divided by 24 squad members equals a salary of £41,666 per player. If you break this figure down further, that's a wage of over £800 per week. Obviously this is an average figure, some players will be on much more than this and the younger players will be paid less.

Of course nobody knows the true figures and this is just an estimate. I don't think I'm far off and so yet again the people who blame the owner for not giving the manager the funds, we'll £800 a week for playing non league football must put Torquay in the top 10 of the wages league.

[Stoneybroke]

Good post dawlishmatt. I like your explanation ,so if .....when we go down it all points to part timers next season and maybe even a player/manager only time will tell

[teddiebear]

Bar. Meals on the day. Hiring out venue. Hot snacks

[SuperNickyWroe]

I doubt very much that many of the players will be on £800/wk.
Going back a few seasons a few left because they could earn more than they were on doing regular jobs.

[Admiral]

I’m a massive Osborne sceptic and have been from the start. However, could he have been thinking a big budget would be a waste this season whilst Wrexham are still in the league?

[kevgull]

I believed that we had a mid table budget. My concern, like most has been our recruitment and coaching.

[desperado]

Whatever the budget was - 'competitive'
was the term used, it would have been at least mid table, we should never be being relegated !
Afraid Gary has made a pigs ear of it this season and must hold his hands up.
Always going to be difficult with virtually a completely new team but too many young players thrown in together. A few more players in the mold of Kevin Dawson would have made a difference.
Ok so it's difficult to get those sort of players but he really should have done better ! The team has not shown any improvement at all this season in my view , in fact with ONE point from the last 6 games you could say it's getting worse, even drawing those games would have given us a chance. Only Jarvis has proved a decent signing. We are really a very poor side and deserve to go down.

[culmstockgull]

The budget is and always will be a never ending topic of conjecture, dont forget to add moyse into your wage equation plus one other whose name escapes me, additionally, on the very long list of outgoings you have to add the lease and business rates on plainmoor, got to be £50K a year . ground staff, stewards on match days plus whatever huge salary the MD is on.
I think the weekly attendance revenue is on the very high end of optimistic, I would think our crowds are divided nigh on equally between OAPS who get a discount, adults, and many adults masquerading as under 16's who form an orderly queue way before halftime to get into the bar.
Add the 700 odd season tickets whose funds are spent keeping the club afloat during the close season and I reckon less than half your amount is closer to the truth.
I am no accountant but surely this supports my belief that many football clubs like ours are on,or past the life support stage of financial existence and why it is essential you need a money man as your benefactor otherwise the figures just do not add up.

[MellowYellow]

Not forgetting the potentially crippling energy crisis for small football clubs. The 3pm kick-off finishing under floodlights during the winter may be an English football tradition but it costs up to a thousand quid to switch the floodlights on. During the energy crisis of 1973/74, kick-offs were brought forward to save on costs by finishing in daylight hours. Why does our club not seek permission to bring kick-offs forward during the winter from 3pm to try and limit the amount of money spent on utilities. Just a thought!

[Dave]

To be fair, DawlishMatt was suggesting the average wage across the quad may be around the £800 pw mark, it's likely the senior Moxey/Hall may be on more that that, with junior squad such as Omar being on less, and the youngsters on £150 training wages.

As mentioned crippling energy bills, there would have been losses occurred during the pandemic shut down as well, but that would have been the same for everyone, it would have only have been the well financed clubs who would have been able to offset such losses.

There's no doubt GJ would not have had the same spending power this season, but those with an agenda would will have us belie we can't compete in the NLP, and our budget was a relegation one, need to stop chatting and start provided proof.

It's my firm opinion because of course I don't know, that our budget this year would not have been play-off contending, but in no way was relegation, there's more than one persons stealing a wage from our club.

[kevgull]

Not forgetting the potentially crippling energy crisis for small football clubs. The 3pm kick-off finishing under floodlights during the winter may be an English football tradition but it costs up to a thousand quid to switch the floodlights on. During the energy crisis of 1973/74, kick-offs were brought forward to save on costs by finishing in daylight hours. Why does our club not seek permission to bring kick-offs forward during the winter from 3pm to try and limit the amount of money spent on utilities. Just a thought!

Clutching Mellow Yellow

[DB57]

It’s an issue that the National League should be looking at for all its members but there’s not much chance of that.

[MellowYellow]

. Sorry all clubs are subsidized for floodlights

1000 quid. Actually costs the club about 20p a game.

Blimey...

...Sorry I don't understand this at all.

I'm tempted to bow to your superior knowledge but before I do, who actually subsidises our clubs energy costs to which Torquay Utd only contribute 20p?

Edit: When you provide me the info you may like to cc in Shrewsbury Town’s Chief Executive Brian Caldwell who I know signed a new energy contract for the club in April for £180,000. He would be interested in energy costs of 20p per game.

[happytorq]

So Uncle Clarke is losing up to 1 million quid a year pumping his money into the club. So where exactly does all this money go? The club has 24 players under contract including 18 year old Jack Windsor and 20 year old Olaf Koszela. The average attendance at Plainmoor is around 1,900 which brings in around £34,200 ( £18pp) each match. We play 23 home games a season which brings in a total of £786,600. For this example, let's say that this money is used to pay for off field expenses including non playing staff wages, travel and hotel expenses etc. So the only place that losses come from is the players wages.

£1,000,000 divided by 24 squad members equals a salary of £41,666 per player. If you break this figure down further, that's a wage of over £800 per week. Obviously this is an average figure, some players will be on much more than this and the younger players will be paid less.

Of course nobody knows the true figures and this is just an estimate. I don't think I'm far off and so yet again the people who blame the owner for not giving the manager the funds, we'll £800 a week for playing non league football must put Torquay in the top 10 of the wages league.

A lot of assumptions here that are probably not the case. We have season ticket holders who will contribute to the attendance but will be paying significantly less that £18 a game. I don't know exactly what STs cost, but I'd guess it's about £15 a game, on average. And thats not counting "concession tickets" and Under 18s, which will be cheaper both for STs and for pay-on-the-day. If I had to guess, I'd suggest that the average ticket cost for a home game is somewhere around £16.

You've also not mentioned the non-playing staff that the club employs. Obviously the management and other non-playing football staff are part of it (there are 9 people listed on the website), but there are bar staff, etc. (I think the food places are franchised out, so there's no labour cost there. Although it presumably also means there's a flat revenue from that, too). You've also got a the 'communications officer', and the people who help the club run without getting involved on the playing side. It soon adds up.

You've also assumed that all of that million a year loss (think it's a bit less on the most recent accounts, but that's mostly irrelevant for this excercise) is going on players. What about massively increased energy costs? Running the stadium costs money. Police presence has to be paid for. You've got to make sure the floodlights are on (i saw somebody else mentioned that we get it subsidised, which is news to me), and the heating/showers work in the changing rooms. Stewarding? I believe that costs money.

If you look at the playing side you could go through all 24 and make a case that at least half a dozen of them haven't provided the value for money you might expect. Dan Martin has been injured all season. Hall has been in and out. Crowe hasn't been sighted recently. But that's just part of having a playing squad. (you could definitely make the case that if Martin and Hall had been able to play 25 games each this season we'd already be safe)

I would appreciate some transparency from the club about the budget, but we're never going to get it. Johnson won't say anything (if he hasn't by now), and we know the owner likes to sit in his cave not saying a word. I very much doubt we have a top 4 budget but equally I'd assume we don't have a bottom 4 budget. Have said elsewhere that I do firmly think the plan this year was to bed in new signings, allow Wrexham and Notts to bugger off, and then hopefully have the nucleus of a good team next year. Clearly that hasn't worked and now we're worrying about Dorking's results all week.

Anyway - if we go down the budget will surely have to be reduced. I suspect that'll mean no Moxey, no Hall, probably no Lapslie (I think his contract will be up), and possibly Halstead will leave - he's arguably done enough to get a deal another NL club if he wants.

We'll presumably have 4 or 5 of the players brought in last summer still under contract (at a guess - Jarvis, McGavin, Hanson, Donellan, possibly Crowe). We'd probably offer deals to Moyse, Tomlinson and Koszela on the 'youth' side - because they're likely to be inexpensive - and consider keeping Omar, Marshall, Martin, if we can agree a contract length/amount. Of course, they could fancy their chances elsewhere but all of these have questions to answer and I can't see too many clubs lining up to take them, especially we'd be entitled to a fee for both Omar and Martin if we do offer them..something (they're both under 24 till the autumn). Either way, rebuild incoming - even if we do somehow manage to get out of the shit - yet again.

[Cheddargull]

Have said elsewhere that I do firmly think the plan this year was to bed in new signings, allow Wrexham and Notts to bugger off, and then hopefully have the nucleus of a good team next year. Clearly that hasn't worked and now we're worrying about Dorking's results all week.

We'd probably offer deals to Moyse, Tomlinson and Koszela on the 'youth' side - because they're likely to be inexpensive -

I also saw this as a two year project simply because of the number of new players in the squsd. I don't think the idea though was to lay low whilst Wrexham and Notts County buggered off, remember they were both splashing the cash last season and didn't go up, so there was no guarantee they would go up this year and one them still has to face the play offs.

With regards to Koszela, if we go down then surely he has to feature in the first team squad on match days. I simply don't see the point of paying him a full time wage just to bugger about in the Southern League, next season he should be made to prove himself in the NLS or we get rid of him.