PERCEPTION AND REALITY

[Modgull]

If that idea doesnt grab anyone how about re developing the Rugby ground on the sea front as a joint facility, it certainly works for many other football clubs, more income and better facilities for all, again it has advantages, no two million clean up costs before you start, next to the railway station, and far more buses pass the door than do plain moor.

I seem to remember this was the Roberts plan?

[gullpower]

Just because it was part of the Roberts plan doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea
( although I still think a new stadium is pie in the sky).

The comments about transport are key. Being able to get to the match by bus or train would greatly reduce the amount of parking needed and probably increase takings at the new incarnation of Boots & Laces.

And talking about transport, why not run a bus on match days from Brixham through Paignton to arrive at Plainmoor half an hour before kick off? Also run another from Newton Abbott or Teignmouth? If run by the club it could also be a source of revenue.

Join TUST. Dream in yellow.

[PhilGull]

Just because it was part of the Roberts plan doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea
( although I still think a new stadium is pie in the sky).

The comments about transport are key. Being able to get to the match by bus or train would greatly reduce the amount of parking needed and probably increase takings at the new incarnation of Boots & Laces.

And talking about transport, why not run a bus on match days from Brixham through Paignton to arrive at Plainmoor half an hour before kick off? Also run another from Newton Abbott or Teignmouth? If run by the club it could also be a source of revenue.

Join TUST. Dream in yellow.

I've thought for a while that buses like these would be a good idea. They needn't even make a profit themselves, with sposorship they could be run at cost. The benefit would come from encouraging more people to come to Plainmoor.

[NorfolkGull]

gullpower we can't organise effective transport to get the players to away games haha.

[Eirik]

gullpower we can't organise effective transport to get the players to away games haha.

From the article on Herald Express:

"We could have got another coach for the North Ferriby game, but it would have cost much more than we had budgeted for, and it was the players' choice to drive up on Friday in the end.
Read more at http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/t ... PT0WqMt.99

So the sponsorship deal with Bay Link is for only one specific coach? If this breaks down, then the club is screwed. One would think that the deal would include a new coach in situations like this.

[PhilGull]

As a ratepayer, I question the morality of the idea that the council should give away community owned land to benefit a development company and a privately owned professional football club.

I would argue that a football club is different to most other businesses, it has community value for starters but this is definitely why we need fan ownership.

[happytorq]

not least because yet again you can bet that someone or some group of people will make serious money out of the brand that is Torquay United,

Nobody is making any money out of Torquay United's "brand", lol. The club struggles for name recognition *in* Torquay, FFS. There are reasons for that, of course, but to suggest that its TUFC would make money for a development company is ludicrous.

The club should be seeing itself as being at the beginning of a long-term journey, the end point for which *should* be to be playing in either League 1 or League 2, breaking even (or maybe even turning a little profit).

Step 1: Stabilise on-field performance, build a team of affordable professionals able to comfortably finish mid-table in the conference.
Step 2: build upon team, adding 'better' players and challenge for promotion
Step 3: promotion to football league
Step 4: consolidation in League 2.

It is only at this point the the club should look towards building a new home. The current ground and facilities are adequate for League 2 football, and although in the long-term I do feel that the club should be looking for alternative revenue streams, we have neither the capital nor the political will (in the council, or in the population of Torbay) to realistically build a new stadium. That new stadium would probably increase revenues by allowing more off-field business opportunities - conferences, restaurant, more sponsorship, maybe non-football events (YellowFest done properly, for example) - but that opportunity needs to have support from people within Torbay itself. The best way to engender that sort of good will is to have a competitive side making Plainmoor a viable entertainment option for the thousands of local people who hitherto have never given a toss about Torquay United. (We've all had people look at us funny when we tell them we're fans.)

For the stadium itself, as TUFC does not own the land on which Plainmoor is built, it will need Council support to help engineer a deal to relocate. That seems to be what the GI deal was all about. Let's say the best site for a stadium turns out to be the Willows - any deal would need to ensure that the club itself pays as little as possible for any cleanup that is required. I don't think it's likely that TUFC could afford to buy the land itself, so you're probably looking at a situation where Torbay Council owns the new plot of land, and leases that to the club - this after giving a reduced sales price on the plainmoor land in exchange for monies to clean up the Willows. Cash for the stadium build itself is another thing - even a fairly modest ground of 8000-10000 capacity will require significant investment if it's to provide the amenities the club would need long term. It seems doubtful that a development company would making enough from the Plainmoor area to warrant giving us that cash unless they were taking a cut of New Stadium's income (which I'd prefer to avoid)

There are simply too many obstacles in the way of the new ground at this time, although for the long-term future of the club I think it will make sense to revisit it when the team itself is in a more financial stable position. It might well be that the only way to ensure that the ground is viable is to have TUFC in some sort of community ownership so that profits (hah, it could happen) are not going to a faceless corporation, but are instead used to benefit the club and its endeavours.

[gullpower]

I've thought for a while that buses like these would be a good idea. They needn't even make a profit themselves, with sposorship they could be run at cost. The benefit would come from encouraging more people to come to Plainmoor.

Also, a bus load of supporters dressed in yellow going along one of the busiest routes in the Bay would raise the profile of the club. Fans could book a seat (and maybe even pay) online so that the size of the bus needed would be known beforehand.

[fredisley]

In reply to happy torq, what I was trying to get across, obviously very badly was that when, and if we get a new stadium, and wherever that may be,the people or company responsible will be in it for a profit, and if not profit certainly not a loss, this is the most basic facet of any business venture and no matter what anyone thinks we are a business.There are very few Abramovich's flying around who like owning a football club regardless of the cost. I think its widely known that we managed to get three million or so out of Thea Bristow before someone had the good sense to tell her to close her purse for good, if they hadn't we would have still be bleeding her dry and to no appreciable gain.
This isnt Manchester or Liverpool where the ground is full regardless who they are playing, or even how badly they are playing, the only way for Torquay to be successful is for us to get much bigger crowds through the gate, for that you need a consistently successful team where people will come as long as we win more than we lose and on the occasion we lose they see a fighting performance and genuine hard work, so for those who have a far larger IQ than I do ,what comes first, the successful team or the bigger crowds to pay for the better players to make the successful team.

[hector]

In reply to happy torq, what I was trying to get across, obviously very badly was that when, and if we get a new stadium, and wherever that may be,the people or company responsible will be in it for a profit, and if not profit certainly not a loss, this is the most basic facet of any business venture and no matter what anyone thinks we are a business.There are very few Abramovich's flying around who like owning a football club regardless of the cost. I think its widely known that we managed to get three million or so out of Thea Bristow before someone had the good sense to tell her to close her purse for good, if they hadn't we would have still be bleeding her dry and to no appreciable gain.
This isnt Manchester or Liverpool where the ground is full regardless who they are playing, or even how badly they are playing, the only way for Torquay to be successful is for us to get much bigger crowds through the gate, for that you need a consistently successful team where people will come as long as we win more than we lose and on the occasion we lose they see a fighting performance and genuine hard work, so for those who have a far larger IQ than I do ,what comes first, the successful team or the bigger crowds to pay for the better players to make the successful team.

Chicken or egg?

The club - it seems - cannot afford the team, that is going to win enough games, for the crowds to grow. So some would argue that the onus is on supporters to take responsibility by turning up to increase revenue. Yet why should they? With no stake, other than an emotional one, why should supporters going above and beyond by turning up to watch poor football, contribute to Player Funds etc, when they are not communicated with, kept in the dark and have absolutely no say in how their club is run? It's not going to happen, even though the numbers so far - 2200ish - are probably more the club deserve for relegation fodder football.

So what could serve as the galvanising force to increase crowds in the face of a potentially struggling team? A new ground? They cannot afford it. New owners? Not if they are GI-style sharks.

The only thing that I think will command loyalty to a struggling side, is Supporter Ownership. If fans own a stake in their club, then they are more likely to feel a pull to follow it, even in the dark days. The days of turning up because you are a 'supporter' need to be reconsidered. The mindset needs changing. Why should this football club gain additional revenue from supporters above gate receipts, yet not allow them a say in how things are run? It's arrogant. It's taking the piss.

It is time to give TUST the chance to run the club.

People will say, 'Oh but TUST doesn't have enough members', 'I thought they were there for buying lawnmowers' etc etc, yet if the club said, when TUST rasises £x they can own the club, then I think that would be enough to get the ball rolling and supporters finally waking up to what is possible.

[happytorq]

It is time to give TUST the chance to run the club.

I would tend to agree with you here - although realistically TUST probably isn't going to be ready for an ownership role any time soon. It seems to me that a wealthy owner/group of owners who is already a fan of the club could take over and lay out a plan to divest him/herself of that ownership in favour of TUST over a number of years. It could probably be done in stages. Buy the club and say "look, I'm not in this to make a fortune - I'll stabilise the club in the short term and then sell to TUST at a very good price over the course x years". That person could still retain an interest later on (say, 51% is TUST owned) but that's what I do.

If I had the money.

Which I don't.

Sorry.

[portugull]

Serious question only serious answers please.

Does anyone know how much cash would be required to buy the Club?

[happytorq]

Serious question only serious answers please.

Does anyone know how much cash would be required to buy the Club?

I don't think anybody knows. Presumably some of it would depend on the kind of custodian people think you'd be - e.g. if you have £5m to throw at the board they wouldn't care if you were the product of an unfortunate drunken liaison between Josef Stalin and Myra Hindley.

[Jerry]

It seems to me that a wealthy owner/group of owners who is already a fan of the club could take over and lay out a plan to divest him/herself of that ownership in favour of TUST over a number of years. It could probably be done in stages. Buy the club and say "look, I'm not in this to make a fortune - I'll stabilise the club in the short term and then sell to TUST at a very good price over the course x years". That person could still retain an interest later on (say, 51% is TUST owned) but that's what I do.

If I had the money.

Which I don't.

Sorry.

St. Mirren fans are purchasing their club in a similar fashion to this.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/ ... -1-4103941

I think Hearts fans also did something along these lines?

[Gulliball]

Yes, Ann Budge is selling Hearts to the fans in stages. From admin a few years ago and in the second tier they're now selling 12 000 season tickets and increasing the capacity to over 20 000 with a new £12m main stand.