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Yorkieandy wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 20:40 Put the boot on the other foot.

You walk down the street and get called an English cnut by a group of Eastern Europeans.

I'm pretty damn sure you'd call that racist.

Not me

hector wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 20:17 So simply because it was only one idiot making monkey noises or shouting something slightly racist at Zebroski, we should clam down and let it go? Stand by and do nothing?
A

So who has suggested that “nothing should be done” about monkey noises? Nobody at all, monkey noises are a disgusting form of racism.

The idiotic nonsense about Zebroski is symptomatic of stupidity and ignorance, but not in the same league as monkey chanting. Yes of course stupidity and ignorance should be challenged, and NOBODY has said stand by and do nothing, but please keep a sense of proportion.

I really don’t like the tone of this comment, the sanctimonious finger pointing insinuating that anybody is racist who doesn’t think that that the Zebroski chant is anything other than stupidity. This is symptomatic of where things are going in Britain now, the “if you’re not with us you’re against us” school of politics.

Yorkieandy wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 20:40 Put the boot on the other foot.

You walk down the street and get called an English cnut by a group of Eastern Europeans.

I'm pretty damn sure you'd call that racist.

No, I’d call that ignorant and provocative. And I’d be tempted to give them a slap. Screaming “racism” every time anybody says something you don’t like is just daft.

gullintwoplaces wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 20:55 So who has suggested that “nothing should be done” about monkey noises? Nobody at all, monkey noises are a disgusting form of racism.

The idiotic nonsense about Zebroski is symptomatic of stupidity and ignorance, but not in the same league as monkey chanting. Yes of course stupidity and ignorance should be challenged, and NOBODY has said stand by and do nothing, but please keep a sense of proportion.

I really don’t like the tone of this comment, the sanctimonious finger pointing insinuating that anybody is racist who doesn’t think that that the Zebroski chant is anything other than stupidity. This is symptomatic of where things are going in Britain now, the “if you’re not with us you’re against us” school of politics.

Screaming "you Polish ****" or "you English ****" is just semantics. Some people may not be offended by it and some will. Again, semantics. That's neither here nor there. The fact that is that both are clear racist abuse. It's not moaning about every little thing being construed in some way or another as being racist. It IS racist.

Yorkieandy wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 21:19 Screaming "you Polish ****" or "you English ****" is just semantics. Some people may not be offended by it and some will. Again, semantics. That's neither here nor there. The fact that is that both are clear racist abuse. It's not moaning about every little thing being construed in some way or another as being racist. It IS racist.

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a programme to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance; More
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"theories of racism"

It isn't racist, they are purely looking for a fight or trying to be hard men when they are not.

Yorkieandy wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 21:19 Screaming "you Polish ****" or "you English ****" is just semantics. Some people may not be offended by it and some will. Again, semantics. That's neither here nor there. The fact that is that both are clear racist abuse. It's not moaning about every little thing being construed in some way or another as being racist. It IS racist.

Your opinion Andy, which you are of course entitled to. I see it as name calling, which on a scale of abuse i see as moderate but provocative. That is my opinion, but I don’t want to hear anybody suggesting that I am “racist”for holding this opinion! Happy to be disagreed with though.

gullintwoplaces wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 20:55 So who has suggested that “nothing should be done” about monkey noises? Nobody at all, monkey noises are a disgusting form of racism.

The idiotic nonsense about Zebroski is symptomatic of stupidity and ignorance, but not in the same league as monkey chanting. Yes of course stupidity and ignorance should be challenged, and NOBODY has said stand by and do nothing, but please keep a sense of proportion.

I really don’t like the tone of this comment, the sanctimonious finger pointing insinuating that anybody is racist who doesn’t think that that the Zebroski chant is anything other than stupidity. This is symptomatic of where things are going in Britain now, the “if you’re not with us you’re against us” school of politics.

The use of the question mark would indicate I was asking a question, not quoting anybody.

Not often I post on here but read for information and entertainment. I was at the match on boxing day and heard what I would interpret as 'monkey noises'. I actually turned to the person next to me and asked if what I heard was right. They replied that they had not heard it. This is probably where the difference of opinion lies. (perhaps a lone voice hidden amongst the chanting)
On two occasions, as the same Eastleigh player approached the corner of the pitch (not Zebroski) I heard what I interpreted as 'monkey noises'. On each occasion this lasted for about 5 seconds and I believe from only one voice. To the credit of young lads around the area they did not appear to join in and the chanting swiftly moved on to other things.
A sad and disturbing event in what was otherwise a great day out.
For those on the forum who did not hear it, please do not disregard the people who believe they did, simply because they do not voice there opinions here on a regular basis.

Hector, nobody in this thread has suggested do nothing. Nobody. So why ask the question? Point scoring?

gullintwoplaces wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 21:25 Your opinion Andy, which you are of course entitled to. I see it as name calling, which on a scale of abuse i see as moderate but provocative. That is my opinion, but I don’t want to hear anybody suggesting that I am “racist”for holding this opinion! Happy to be disagreed with though.

Fair enough GITP. I'm really trying to find the legal answer. If i was Polish and was on the wrong end of similar abuse whilst sat in a pub for example then should i have miraculously recorded the perpetrators saying such stuff then do i have grounds for prosecution? I'm sure if i was say Afro Caribbean and was able to prove such abuse aimed at me then i have a legal case so would i if i was Polish / Romanian / Martian?

Where's Matt Ferrari when you need him? He'd know being a bit of a legal buff. Help Matt!

He's doing a 10 stretch for racially abusing a corner flag

It is deeply offensive for anyone to see and hear. The person that shouted the abuse is deranged or unbelievably uneducated and seriously needs medical attention.

I find it strange how no one heard these alleged monkey noises bar John Walsh on FB/Twitter and a bunch of new forum users..

Calling someone a Polish **** is not racist. Making a remark about realms of religion or ethnicity within this country is. This shout by a supporter was no more than a silly and uneducated outburst.

‘Cheer up Gordon Strachan, oh what can’t it be to a, sad Scottish ba...’ is that racist? The FA certainly don’t think so when thousands of England fans sing it. Exactly the same.

Yorkieandy wrote: ↑30 Dec 2017, 21:36 Fair enough GITP. I'm really trying to find the legal answer. If i was Polish and was on the wrong end of similar abuse whilst sat in a pub for example then should i have miraculously recorded the perpetrators saying such stuff then do i have grounds for prosecution? I'm sure if i was say Afro Caribbean and was able to prove such abuse aimed at me then i have a legal case so would i if i was Polish / Romanian / Martian?

Where's Matt Ferrari when you need him? He'd know being a bit of a legal buff. Help Matt!

Quick answer re the legal position - If the bloke at the game was charged with a Racially Aggravated S5 for the Zebroski comments, a Magistrates Court would find him guilty if proved he said it.

A bit of reading at the link below if you’re into that sort of thing.

Even if you get the race/ethnicity/nationality of the person incorrect when saying ‘you Polish ****’ the offence would still be regarded as racially aggravated.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/r ... ion-policy