New Stadium-The Willows

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 03 Feb 2016, 14:43

Gullscorer wrote:1. People mention Darlington, but forget all the other clubs who have successfully moved to new and bigger grounds, Shrewsbury for one. But if the capacity at the new stadium remains at 6000, what's the point in a new stadium? Where's the ambition?

Nobody has mentioned Darlo as a negative against moving to a new ground, just saying not to be over ambitious with the capacity.

A new stadium should bring all sorts of new revenue streams that are impossible currently at Plainmoor (if done correctly), that is the point of a new stadium not because our current ground is too small.

The last thing we need is for 2000 people to be rattling around in a 10000 capacity stadium.

It does say in that article that there would be an INITIAL capacity of 6000, so maybe the option of increasing the size if and when we need it?

Obviously caution is needed to make sure we are getting the right deal but in principle this could be just what the club needs to get back on it's feet (something needs to change that's for sure).

Post by **happytorq** » 03 Feb 2016, 15:18

One thing to note is that this is being mooted as a 4G pitch (rather than 3G). Some of the terminology around this sort of thing is a bit fuzzy, but 4G is intended to mean a water based surface; that is, it does't have any sand (like Clennon Valley of old!) or rubber infill (so none of those annoying little rubber balls). I've played on a 4G surface and they are excellent. Of course, it's not the same as grass, but given 10-15 years I think you'll see them installed at many grounds in higher division. Might even be part of the strategy in this company offering to build it - they could possibly have an interest in installing such surfaces at other places (not just football grounds, but recreational facilities too)

Would be a little bit wary of 'only' having a 6k capacity, but really because it signals that we've accepted this as our 'place'. As long as there's the ability to add more seating later on (when we get triumphantly promoted to League 1 in 4 years' time

)

It's also encouraging that the board -despite the dire on-pitch situation - are still looking forward and making new plans.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » 03 Feb 2016, 15:30

6000 capacity is fine providing the stadium is designed with expansion in mind. That was one thing Plainmoor could never provide - short of adding a second tier to the family stand (which it is designed for), we've maxed out the parcel of land. We won't need more than 6000 capacity for a good while yet.

Agree that this does sound too good to be true. I guess the only way it makes sense is if the value of whatever Plainmoor can be redeveloped for is greater than the cost of the new stadium provided for us at the Willows. But does it not seem that the land at the Willows is more ripe for development than Plainmoor is, what with the enhanced transport links? Why would an American firm go to the lengths to buy Plainmoor when they could redevelop elsewhere for less?

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » 03 Feb 2016, 15:52

Jeff wrote:6000 capacity is fine providing the stadium is designed with expansion in mind. That was one thing Plainmoor could never provide - short of adding a second tier to the family stand (which it is designed for), we've maxed out the parcel of land. We won't need more than 6000 capacity for a good while yet.

Agree that this does sound too good to be true. I guess the only way it makes sense is if the value of whatever Plainmoor can be redeveloped for is greater than the cost of the new stadium provided for us at the Willows. But does it not seem that the land at the Willows is more ripe for development than Plainmoor is, what with the enhanced transport links? Why would an American firm go to the lengths to buy Plainmoor when they could redevelop elsewhere for less?

I believe that land was earmarked in the "local plan" for a sporting hub. I guess the council would say to them "build Torquay a new ground and we'll let you develop Plainmoor". This would get around the covenant issue. I expect there will be other development opportunities for them at the Willows site as well (it's a pretty sizeable piece of land).

royalgull · Post by **royalgull** » 03 Feb 2016, 15:57

When have we ever got near 6000 in the last 15 years???! Plenty big enough for Southern League Premier division football in 2 years time.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 03 Feb 2016, 16:16

royalgull wrote:When have we ever got near 6000 in the last 15 years???! Plenty big enough for Southern League Premier division football in 2 years time.

Not in the last 15 years, for obvious reasons, but in ages past there was an occasional 7000 and 9000 game, and of course 20,000 in the FA Cup v Tottenham H. If we have the opportunity for a new ground it would be stupid not to take account of potential future success. I'd be happy with an initial 6000 capacity provided allowance is made for expansion in the future.

LesLawrencesAfro · Post by **LesLawrencesAfro** » 03 Feb 2016, 16:22

Although a traditionalist at heart, I think this could be the best move for the future of the club (providing it's all above board of course). As mentioned elsewhere, other clubs have moved to shiny new stadia and have thrived (no, I realise this doesn't mean we will follow suit... but we can dream!).

And as for playing on 4G... technology has moved on in the last few years and we only have to look at Maidstone (spit!) to realise what potential revenue can be made from having a pitch (and other facilities?) which can be played on 7 days a week with very little possibility of any postponements.

Capacity... well, 6k seems to be too big for us as it is... but if we want to 'move forward' and look to the future acknowledgement by the Football League to allow artificial surfaces, then we should be (IMHO) looking at around 8-9k (or at least the ability to increase to this if needed).

If it is all legit, and of course it could well be, then what have Torquay United and the future of football in the town got to lose?

teignmouth54 · Post by **teignmouth54** » 03 Feb 2016, 16:26

If I had donated a sum in the region of £2m towards the cost of a new stand I would not be happy to learn that my club would be moving to a new ground five years later.

Which other sporting institution in the Torbay area would use Plainmoor and who would pay the cost of maintaining the stadium. The 1,750 capacity Bristowâ€™s Bench would surely become a white elephant and the cost of dismantling the stand and rebuilding it elsewhere would be prohibitive.

Alpine Joe · Post by **Alpine Joe** » 03 Feb 2016, 16:30

While in theory a new stadium might be capable of holding 6000, the Safety Advisory Group will be able to knock that down to 4000 in the blink of an eye. And if they're really determined 3500.

It will be important to start as we mean to go on, and telling the SAG where to stick their advice will be an important first step.

JamesTUFC · Post by **JamesTUFC** » 03 Feb 2016, 16:38

So, what exactly will happen to Plainmoor? or at least the land it is on?

Added in 5 seconds:
So, what exactly will happen to Plainmoor? or at least the land it is on?

gateman49 · Post by **gateman49** » 03 Feb 2016, 16:49

My first reaction was that I had fallen asleep for nearly two months and woken up on April 1st.

My second reaction is that everybody needs to be very, very careful about this, there have been too many false dawns in the past and there are plenty of clubs around the country (not just Darlington) where things have gone badly wrong. We've already had one near thing in this respect with Chris Roberts.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to do it once is unlucky but to do it twice would be careless.

My third thought is that our only priority now should be to get out of the mess we are in at the moment so this doesn't exactly come at a convenient time.

wodger of awabia · Post by **wodger of awabia** » 03 Feb 2016, 17:15

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!.............. Perhaps Torbay Council should find out why the Chinese built new cricket grounds in the Caribbean!

DevonYellow · Post by **DevonYellow** » 03 Feb 2016, 17:23

Only thing that would worry me would be it sounds too good to be true. Hope we tread carefully.

Does anyone know the regulations regarding new stadia and standing? Would be a shame to lose the terracing.

DJ Gull · Post by **DJ Gull** » 03 Feb 2016, 17:25

I want to be happy about this, the plan sounds perfect, but the whole American business thing does sound alarm bells for me.

6667GULL · Post by **6667GULL** » 03 Feb 2016, 17:31

We may not exist next season never mind need a new stadium.
Phillips and co have been accused of not being football savvy and this just adds more fuel to that.
We are not going to stay up so should be planning for next season and not getting involved with this nonsense.
We are becoming even more of a laughing stock, you thought Webb and Roberts were loonies.

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