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Chelston TUFC wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 19:56 If some of the players havent come good this season then its a case of;
GJ's limits as a coach to bring players on
OR
The limits of the players capabilities to perform at NL level

Would suggest a third option - particularly for a team like us that is the footballing equivalent of an arctic outpost.

Failure of a player to 'settle'.

It'd a cliché, but absolutely something that needs to be taken into account.

Ryan Hanson is from Dover originally. He was at Hull, then went back on loan to his hometown club before being signed permanently.
Mark Halstead: from Blackpool. knocked around at other northern teams (Morecambe, Southport, Hyde, Barrow). Then moves family waaaay down south
Brett McGavin: from Suffolk. Started at Ipswich, had comparitve success at Kings Lynn (still in Norfolk) then came down here.

That's just three from the top of my head in the current squad. Of these, Halstead has had a second season and has been pretty good. You could make the case with other players in our side - Dylan Crowe, for example. Corie Andrews could be another example.

I think we assume that if you're being paid to be a footballer and you have the ability, it'll just work out right. But that's not always the case. How many times down the years have we had players far from home who look unimpressive and then end up being really good? And, on the other side - Mark Loram went to QPR with huge ability and just wasn't comfortable in West London. It happens.

That's not to say that these players should be absolved of anything - especially in a relegation season - but it can be mentally very difficult to find yourself far from home with little in the way of family or friends arounds to help you. I've been there myself. It takes time and a certain amount of character to come through it. There's no guarantee that the players I've mentioned will be great if they stay, but I think it'll be easier for them with a year of acclimation behind them.

Edit - thought of something else - as we don't have much of an academy we're forced to bring in players from further afield. If Koszela, Moyse, Tomlinson etc were half-decent, we'd not be under so much pressure to have playhers perform immediately. Look at Exeter and Plymouth - they generally have at least a couple of their products in their first XI which is beneficial; even before they think about flogging them.

CourtierGull wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 17:57 Pointless argument and an unnecessary ‘idiot’ considering some of the absolute drivel you’ve spouted over the years, jarvis wants to leave or not, a team will have to pay for him, simply what I said. Halsteads proven time and time again he’s good enough for this league, and played a lot higher so why wouldn’t he be? Stobbs would be hopeful but Oldham don’t want him and his contracts up.

As for hanson and mcgavin, we’ve seen young players be crucified like this and turn into gems, Cameron and Reid for example. Hanson I don’t have as much hope for but Brett clearly has ability and if you deny that then you haven’t seen him on the ball.

I’d also rather we start without Johnson, but not going to kick off if he stays.

Seen McGavin many times on the ball …. He normally gives it away soon after. He is lazy, cannot tackle or run back…. Yes perfect for NLS, and the fight ahead
He seems more worried about his Alice band than the relegation battle we faced. Give me a Lapslie, Hall or Dawson any day of the week.

Calling people idiots when they give their point of view is nonsense.

happytorq wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 20:26 Would suggest a third option - particularly for a team like us that is the footballing equivalent of an arctic outpost.

Failure of a player to 'settle'.

It'd a cliché, but absolutely something that needs to be taken into account.

Ryan Hanson is from Dover originally. He was at Hull, then went back on loan to his hometown club before being signed permanently.
Mark Halstead: from Blackpool. knocked around at other northern teams (Morecambe, Southport, Hyde, Barrow). Then moves family waaaay down south
Brett McGavin: from Suffolk. Started at Ipswich, had comparitve success at Kings Lynn (still in Norfolk) then came down here.

That's just three from the top of my head in the current squad. Of these, Halstead has had a second season and has been pretty good. You could make the case with other players in our side - Dylan Crowe, for example. Corie Andrews could be another example.

I think we assume that if you're being paid to be a footballer and you have the ability, it'll just work out right. But that's not always the case. How many times down the years have we had players far from home who look unimpressive and then end up being really good? And, on the other side - Mark Loram went to QPR with huge ability and just wasn't comfortable in West London. It happens.

That's not to say that these players should be absolved of anything - especially in a relegation season - but it can be mentally very difficult to find yourself far from home with little in the way of family or friends arounds to help you. I've been there myself. It takes time and a certain amount of character to come through it. There's no guarantee that the players I've mentioned will be great if they stay, but I think it'll be easier for them with a year of acclimation behind them.

Edit - thought of something else - as we don't have much of an academy we're forced to bring in players from further afield. If Koszela, Moyse, Tomlinson etc were half-decent, we'd not be under so much pressure to have playhers perform immediately. Look at Exeter and Plymouth - they generally have at least a couple of their products in their first XI which is beneficial; even before they think about flogging them.

So you're a twenty something footballer in a successful team with a great group of players who all have a common fit with what the manager sees as part of the DNA to be part of his squad......sounds like a great environment to work in where your team mates are your friends. Its probably easy to settle.

So you're in a twenty something footballer in a thrown together squad thats under pressure from the off and it barely gets any better. The manager brings you in but then doesnt fancy you and every week there's one loanee coming in and another going out. You barely build up a relationship with half your team because the door to the changing room is like a revolving door.

Failure to settle in an unsettled squad and a manager whose recruitment has a 50% success rate at best.

DevonBee wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 18:18 Got against them….. well all mentioned resemble a car crash waiting to happen ! As for you proudly sponsoring McGavin
I think you said before the club selected him for you
Doubt he would be involved in the car crash , he would probably cause it for being too bloody slow.
It’s time for change ….. with money hopefully saved on Johnson wages and a cheaper option no doubt on the cards…pay off Hanson ( 2x relegations from NL on his cv ) and get him out of here.

Shaun has been OK.
As for "proudly sponsoring" we were asked as a group to sponsor him and we did - so we (the seven of us) put money into the club...
Seems everyone apart from you sees that as a good cause - regardless of which player it is.

DevonBee wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 20:20 Spot on Bruce …. All pro Johnson read the Torquay Talk article…then come back here with a reason why Johnson should stay

The question worth asking is why Torquay could expect to do any better in the managerial transfer market, should they jettison Gary Johnson. What I see in the comments is like an uncontrollable reflex reaction of generalities of the manager having ‘taken us far as he can’, or being ‘tactically inept’. It's now as if we are all experts in understanding the complex mechanisms of football club politics whereas a manager of 30 years experience is not. We have been here before and Johnson took us out of the NLS into the NL play-offs and see no reason why he cannot do this again. Rather rebuild and go again, as before, rather than stay in the NL mid-table wilderness like Barrow for 50 years or Wrexhams 15 years in the abyss with as many managers. For now, the speculation of will he stay or will he go will achieve nothing when all eyes need to be focused on getting back to the National League. That's just my tuppenceworth; you can believe what you like.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑25 Apr 2023, 23:10 Shaun has been OK.
As for "proudly sponsoring" we were asked as a group to sponsor him and we did - so we (the seven of us) put money into the club...
Seems everyone apart from you sees that as a good cause - regardless of which player it is.

Yes I agree he has been ok , considering he is a midfielder playing out of position to fill a gap that Crowe was signed to do.
As for McGavin…. I also have sponsored players in various sports over the years and respect the 7 of you for doing so.
I remember you saying the club offered him, unfortunate for the 7 of you it was McGavin.
When I have sponsored in the past , I have been fortunate and selected the guy I wanted…. Never mind by the looks of Brett’s contract you can sponsor him for the next 2 seasons as well….. He obviously has a fantastic agent

MellowYellow wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 01:10 The question worth asking is why Torquay could expect to do any better in the managerial transfer market, should they jettison Gary Johnson. What I see in the comments is like an uncontrollable reflex reaction of generalities of the manager having ‘taken us far as he can’, or being ‘tactically inept’. It's now as if we are all experts in understanding the complex mechanisms of football club politics whereas a manager of 30 years experience is not. We have been here before and Johnson took us out of the NLS into the NL play-offs and see no reason why he cannot do this again. Rather rebuild and go again, as before, rather than stay in the NL mid-table wilderness like Barrow for 50 years or Wrexhams 15 years in the abyss with as many managers. For now, the speculation of will he stay or will he go will achieve nothing when all eyes need to be focused on getting back to the National League. That's just my tuppenceworth; you can believe what you like.

All about opinions Mellow, but let’s not forget a Manager with 30 years experience has taken us back to where he started 5 years ago. Should have used his experience to get us over the line…. When injuries took there toll , when we were so far ahead of the rest.
Blame the ref at Ashton Gate , but the truth is with his experience he should have strengthened in hindsight.
30 years experience to recruit this current bunch of mostly lightweights.
Time for change, fresh ideas , forward thinking tactics, and fitness levels improved.
Gary time….is now opposition time sadly.
Thanks to him, but the time for change is Now

DevonBee wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 06:02 Gary time….is now opposition time sadly.

it's almost as if...good teams score more in stoppage time, while poor teams concede instead.

I think when Gary came in he inherited quite a few decent players. Owers just seemed to be a miserable sod with the team and that was reflected in the performances. Gary came in, cheered everyone up, got a few great loans from his son and basically rode that wave.
I thought our football play was superb in the NLS with lots of triangular passing shapes and lightning breaks with Opi and Jamie there to tap in the cross. That changed in the NL to more of a launch it style. Even when we were a million points in front at Christmas, I didn’t think our football was as good and we were somewhat lucky with plenty of scruffy Gary time goals. My point being we have to have a change of direction. Einsteins quote of insanity etc.
Is Paul Cox available? If we actually pay him this time around he might stay.

cockneycockers wrote: ↑26 Apr 2023, 15:33 I think when Gary came in he inherited quite a few decent players. Owers just seemed to be a miserable sod with the team and that was reflected in the performances. Gary came in, cheered everyone up, got a few great loans from his son and basically rode that wave.
I thought our football play was superb in the NLS with lots of triangular passing shapes and lightning breaks with Opi and Jamie there to tap in the cross. That changed in the NL to more of a launch it style. Even when we were a million points in front at Christmas, I didn’t think our football was as good and we were somewhat lucky with plenty of scruffy Gary time goals. My point being we have to have a change of direction. Einsteins quote of insanity etc.
Is Paul Cox available? If we actually pay him this time around he might stay.

A certain ex chief executive told me that Cox was paid about £100 a week and offered Helen Chamberlain’s house and a rented car to use.

We will end up with a bunch of kids and players who have no legs left if GJ is still “gaffer” next season.

We need a tracksuit player/manager with modern ideas and tactics to develop whoever we can sign!

Will we see a retained/released list today? The club needs to act faster than in recent years, and no big announcement day this year please!

Does anyone know if Mark Halstead is leaving?, That's a big loss if he does go, but you couldnt blame him, Moxey, Asa, and Dawson staying would be great, even Dan Martin and Rhys Lovett, but beyond that, I can't see Aaron Jarvis and Tom Lapslie hanging around, I think they'll be off, also Frank Nouble...all the loanees will return, so without sounding like capt obvious, what in the blue hell are we left with?, Other than the players stated, if they aren't named-they should go, asap please, talking Marshall,Mensah,Crowe, Donnellan, McGavin, Hanson, Wyatt,Fadahunsi (if he's still on the books), Ali Omar, I've probably forgotten more, but this mob need to go, if they hang around we'll be a bang average NLS side next season, mid table at best