Torquay United Fans Forum

brucie wrote: ↑24 Sep 2023, 16:00 Looking at those highlights blimey we should have won that game. For once Halstead didnt need to make 10 saves to keep us in it.

I thought Hemel created very little. Their first goal is unbelievable. Their second the ball broke nicely for them. The third - there are 6 Torquay players behind the ball when we lost us. Criminal defending.

To end up with no points from this game is ridiculous.

You are correct Bruce, we should have won this game. It was a different performance to the other away games I have seen this season (Dover, Slough, Aveley) where we deserved nothing. But for some truly abysmal defending we would have won this. I’m not saying we were particularly good for the rest of the game, we were too pedestrian with the ball and lacked creativity, but still created enough to run out winners had we had any composure at the back, particularly when defending set pieces. The three goals we conceded were all dreadful, but the first was an absolute shocker. I have no idea what Marshall was either thinking or trying to do when he headed it back across goal.

As the highlights demonstrate, Jarvis missed a couple of sitters, where he has to hit the target - particularly when put clean through at an angle just before HH scored. Their keeper also made a couple of very good saves. Until we scored our second we had pretty much dominated the second half, although still looked vulnerable at the back as this side always will.

None of that means anything however as we threw it away. It is a sign of how poor this league is that we are even as high as 6th given how poorly we have played at times. We are nowhere near good enough and I came away yesterday feeling frustrated and disappointed, but with a feeling that with a couple of additions we may scrape into the play offs. When i left the Worthing, Slough and Aveley games, I feared another relegation.

For those who were not there, that was every bit as demoralising as the Worthing game. This result has been coming. I left after we conceded the second - after a bright enough first 20 minutes I’d watched pretty much an hour of Aveley shooting practice, with Halstead again keeping us in it. I am surprised we actually made a game of it.

The word was that the team bus was late arriving having stayed in the Brands Hatch area overnight. However, I’d say that the first 20 minutes were our best of the afternoon. I thought we looked OK - plenty of possession and without showing any quality we created a couple half chances and one particular back post header which Tomlinson forced a save, but really should have given the keeper no chance. Poor shooting and general slowness of thought seemed to be our main issue, but I thought they looked there for the taking.

From then on, however, Aveley took control of things and could have been three or four up by half time. It was only a matter of time before Aveley took the deserved lead - although someone down that end later said that it looked offside. We were holding on to get in at half time just one down and I was hoping for a far better second half. That didn’t come and in fact we got worse - we lost the midfield battle and looked vulnerable as Aveley carved out chance after chance. A mixture of Halstead saves and poor finishing delayed the inevitable, but they finally got a second. At least it enabled me to get out of the car park before the end as that had a look of a nightmare ala the one at Argyle, albeit on a much smaller scale.

A few other observations…….

Easily the smallest ground I have watched a Torquay game at - had a whiff of Wall Park, Brixham with an additional Granstand and club house. We are where we are, but I hate these artificial pitches. A fair few West Ham shirts amongst the home fans - that’s probably the most other sides shirts I have seen at a ground. Nice enough set up though.

Today was a big opportunity for Da Silva. He skipped past his man in the opening minutes, but that was as good as it got for him. I don’t want to be harsh on a young player, but I think it is fair to say he didn’t make the most of this opportunity. To be honest, in the games that I have seen this season he has yet to find his feet this year.

Difficult to judge Luke Pearce on his 20 odd minutes, but he looked to have a decent touch and kept the ball as well as anyone else did, possibly better. On the evidence of this season, I’d give him a run ahead of both Collins and Da Silva.

Our midfield desperately need to get Dawson (in the form of last season) back. If that is not going to happen soon, we need to get someone in. We someone in anyway. Same can be said for our defence. Reinforcements are badly needed.

The pace of our play is incredibly slow - options from throw ins are painful to watch.

Painful to watch pretty much sums up the whole afternoon to be honest.

That was another difficult watch and I agree with the other comments that Slough would have been out of sight by half time were it not for Halstead. I’d have to check the highlights to see if he stood any chance with their goal as I was at the other end. I don’t think he did, as it seemed a fine strike. The ball should never have got to him mind and it was a poor goal to give away. Other than that it was the best goalkeeping display I have seen for a long time - shot stopping, handling in difficult conditions and distribution. He may have saved GJ’s job for another week or so as our first half display was shockingly bad and the anger from Gulls fans present was very evident as many walked around in disbelief at half time.

I’m not a fan of artificial pitches and this one seemed to accentuate our technical deficiencies in simple controlling and passing the ball. We never got going and looked vulnerable throughout the first half - the most positive thing was that we couldn’t play any worse and we were only one down. We have no creation or guile in the current team and when Stobbs and Collins are not at it we are totally reliant on an opposition error to creat anything.

Sent out early for the second half and things improved. Stobbs and Collins seemed to get more joy, but we were still not creating any clear cut chances. Pressure was finally being applied, but it was pretty gentle stuff. Then Ash created something out of nothing and slotted home from an angle - it was a cracking finish. The game was well and truly in the balance and we forced a couple of other half chances whilst still looking vulnerable at the back. With about 15 of regulation time left Colin’s put in a fantastic cross and Ash met it with an equally fantastic header back across the keeper. Two cracking finishes from Ash. Not everything has come off for him since the start of the season, but he is never short of effort and there is a player there - he is a good signing for this level and you could see confidence return on the back of those finishes.

A couple of other points - it has been noticeable in the games I have seen that Jarvis is not getting any protection this year. He is no angel himself, but he is constantly being held and manhandled and never seems to get the 50/50 calls. I am obviously biased, but I could not see how the incident which led to his head injury could have possibly been given against him.

Nice set up they have in Slough - horrible ground to park at unless you get in the club parking, but once in the stadium, a very welcoming and friendly set up. Nice bar and food areas - all fully accessible to away fans. That is the first time I have seen a live band in the bar pre-match with souvlaki being served as a food option - unless I’d stumbled into a wedding in a function room!

Yes, we were fortunate, but three wins on the bounce is something to feel good about. We can’t continue to ride our luck, but hopefully things will click and we can get some of our players back and reinforcements in soon. I can’t see Johnson going whilst we squeeze out these results, but you sense that the finger can’t be too far away from the trigger with performances like our first half today.

An unconvincing and largely uninspiring win. Just about deserved though and credit to the players for battling through - no shortage of effort, but lacking confidence and low on quality. Probably the worst possible result for the owner of a football club who is unsure whether to stick or twist on their manager. Worst possible result for those fans who have given up on Johnson and were openly hoping for a defeat to hasten his departure. I don’t think this result and performance will make a difference either way to that situation - they either need to pull the trigger now or back the manager to strengthen as we seem to be down the the bare bones. The toxicity is never far from the surface with the fans, but it was another respectable turnout and the crowd stayed positive, albeit nervy with a slight feel of resignation.

Judging by the first three games, football in the NLS has changed since our last visit. Teams are far more comfortable on the ball. Chippenham were another who played it out from the back - they were not as slick as Worthing though and generally passed it about for 5 minutes and then lumped it forward. Personally, it has the rather annoying combination of being very effective against us and is also extremely boring to watch - worst of all worlds! We tried to play it about more too, but seemed to be in two minds much of the time. Jarvis cut a frustrated figure - coming short at times, but at others was clearly annoyed at the failure to deliver an early ball. Looked to have picked up a knock in the first half too. It wasn’t sticking up front for him and Ash during the first half. I thought Martin was the biggest plus - very committed and largely tidy in defence, but also offered an option going forward. Didn’t all come off, but he looked a threat. He was never going to last 90 minutes, but he can be pleased with his performance. Marshall also looked to have a positive impact - I’m not sure how he got into the position he did for the goal, but it needed to be a great header to score. It was so good, the announcer presumed it was Jarvis who had scored it.

Chippenham equalised with their very next attack - a very poor goal to give away defensively.

It was anyone’s game from that point with both sides makes chances. Chippenham hit the bar with a miscue and I thought we may have had a chance that had actually crossed the line, but the Lino and ref suggested otherwise. Chippenham lost the plot slightly and as we got stronger the fouls and time wasting started adding up. 11 minutes added on and we scored what turned out to be the winner in the 93. The best move of the match really with Ash and Jarvis combining nicely and a great finishing from Jarvis.

Not sure whether this takes us much further forward, but a win is a win and those three points could prove vital in our promotion / relegation / play off battle at the end of the season.

There have been a handful of performances over the years where you sense there are wider ramifications at play than the result itself - today felt like one of those games. So dramatic was the gulf between the sides, in speed of thought, speed of play, first touch, movement, tactical awareness, technical skill that one would have thought we were playing a cup tie against a side a league or two higher. It was a result and performance which stays with you for a good few hours after the event.

Worthing are no world beaters, but credit to them, they made us look like dinosaurs and could easily have won by 6. The reaction of the crowd to McGavin going off was very poor, but it demonstrates how toxic things have become and how little patience there is for much more of this. Very difficult to see how Johnson can turn this around.

Such a shame, as fans were clearly prepared to give Johnson the benefit of the doubt this season - to get 2,700 through the door after the few years we have had is pretty impressive.

Barring the first 20 minutes on the pitch, that was a horrible away trip.

Dreadful conditions driving down - the last 10 miles or so I was just presuming the match would be called off so bad was the surface water and flooding - credit to the Dover pitch as it held up remarkably well.

No segregation so the couple of hundred or so Gulls were split either end of the ground, most congregating in the area previously used as the away end. Some unpleasant exchanges when the Dover youth came down to that end following the choice of ends. The Gulls fans in general wanted nothing to do with any trouble and moved away, other than one fella who stayed for a bit of banter, pretty much on his own. I think he was just standing his ground rather than being aggressive, but he appeared pissed up and his presence was clearly winding them up and he had outstayed his welcome. If he was with friends then they should have dragged him away as it was only going to end in him either being punched or chucked out by the Police - I think luckily for him it was the Police who moved him away - it may have looked a bit heavy handed, but he was asking to be smacked and then resisted the Police. In fairness to the Police they asked a couple of Torquay fans if they could calm him down. They couldn’t. Hopefully, he just got chucked out. Either way, we are going to have to get used to no segregation.

Anyway, on to the game - as most have stated, first 20 minutes, all good. Two up and Ash had hit the post too. We were cutting through them. The second goal was a good move and a decent finish by Hall and it was a question of how many , surely?
That’s probably what the players thought as we stopped playing. Dover had several chances and it was no surprise when they scored. The ball seemed to ping around and we had several opportunities to clear the danger. Very frustrating. I had hoped this would ensure that they were given the appropriate rocket at half time, but if they were then it didn’t show. Conditions worsened and so did we - the were out muscled and out played and they equalised with about 20 minutes left. Again, we had opportunities to clear and didn’t take them. Dover pretty much seemed to settle for the draw, started time wasting and we came back into it. Both Jarvis and Ash could and should have scored, but fluffed their chances.

No need to panic, but can’t deny that this was somewhat deflating. The conditions were abysmal and a draw away from home isn’t a disaster. I’m ambivalent towards Johnson rather than being particularly pro or anti. On today’s evidence alone, I worry that we haven’t learned any lessons from last season - limited options to change anything offensively during a match, a midfield lacking in pace and trying to put square pegs in round holes in turning wingers or midfielders into wig backs. We loook vulnerable all match down our right flank. The hoof ball that we played for the last hour was abysmal quality, but in fairness one could blame the conditions. I didn’t see any particular evidence that one side was full time in terms of fitness. It is fair to say that we were the side pushing for a winner towards the end of the match, but in doing so we lost our shape and it didn’t appear that there was any plan other than to lump it forward - we had a corner in the closing minute and nobody seemed to know who was going to take it - ended up being the nearest person to the ball.

I sense that there isn’t an awful lot of good will left in the tank for GJ. This performance will add ammunition to those who say he is a dinosaur and football has moved on. Reports from pre-season games against City and Argyle suggest otherwise, but a couple of these performances at home and things could turn toxic. Hopefully, this one was down to the conditions and complacency. Very frustrating though.

Does anyone know what the situation with Dawson is?

I thought he was a major influence in our end of season from last year. Any sign of him in training or watching from the sidelines of our games? Is he injured?

Thanks for this CP.

Did anyone ask about the Jarvis situation and the likelihood of him staying.

I have read the public comments and GJ is unlikely to divert from his recent line, but just wondered whether it was brought up.

Cheddargull wrote: ↑05 May 2023, 19:55 This might actually still be the case. In his recent interview Johnson said the players would be getting less money but this wouldn't be the case with him. Is this because he is still under an existing contract? A lot of people seem to think he was given a 2 year contract in 2021 but this was never stated publicly. If he was actually given a longer contract, say 3 years, he would still be on the same money next season. Therefore maybe the club has decided to stick and hope and save the compensation money.
Agree with everything else in your post.

I hadn’t considered that, you may be correct.

That said, I think that comment may have been taken out of context. I can’t find it so don’t know for sure, but I don’t think that is what he meant to say. Might be wrong.

Interesting and sobering analysis CP. Thanks. I am sure that there are a fair few former TUFC managers over the years who will have a similar patchy record, but the recruitment over the last two years has been a major factor in our failure. Compounded by the fact that we are easy pickings for bigger clubs to cherry pick anyone who comes good who we have not tied down to a contract.

I’d hope that similar analysis has been carried out by the club as part of a frank assessment of what went wrong last year. I was surprised that we kept GJ - probably slightly disappointed on balance. Not foaming at the mouth, making myself ill disappointed like some of our fans, but things had gone stale and I saw it as an opportunity for a fresh start and a change of approach. I had mistakenly presumed that we couldn’t afford to sack GJ and were just seeing his contract out and hoping for the best. The ties between GJ and the owners are obviously stronger than I thought.

I’d feel a lot more confident in sticking with Johnson if the announcement was accompanied by a recognition and acknowledgement that last season was a complete balls up along with an assessment of what needs to change and how we plan to do that. The noises thus far are far too ‘business as usual’ and acceptance of the failure. Recruitment was central to that failure and by the time we got a squad fit for purpose we had ran out of games. Why was that? Was it GJ spaffing the budget, was the budget not available sooner, were the players simply not available at what we were previously willing to offer? I have no idea what the budget was - some people’s trusted sources, who shall never be named, seem to suggest it was OK?

Are the club backing GJ in a way that we didn’t last year? Has GJ accepted he got things wrong last year and changed his methods? If not, is this another step of managed decline? If that is the case, then why keep GJ and not go for a cheaper option? Why not use it to go part time? Those trusted sources, who are so untrustworthy to keep their mouths shut seem to suggest that GJ was on a fair wedge. Why persist with that unless you genuinely see him as the best prospect of getting back up and are going to back him? All seems odd to me.

A couple of other random things. I might be being ridiculously optimistic here, but I suspect one or two of the disappointments may come good at the lower level - or at least be adequate. I am looking at you MCGavin and Hanson. I think there is a player in Donnellan too. Reid was a target for the boo boys until GJ played him properly in the NLS. Different player from then on. I may be asking too much, but they have half decent pedigree for NLS level.

Finally, and reluctantly as I don’t want to pick on individuals - is having a non-playing assistant/ coach a luxury at our level?

From a neutral point of view I expect that was a cracking spectacle as a non-league game, but from a Torquay fan’s perspective that was absolute torture!

I thought York looked a half decent side to be honest - we looked shaky at times defensively and that is the most uncomfortable I have seen Lawrence look in his time with us - the kid clearly has class so he was able to handle it, but that was a big test. Halstead was on hand when required, but it was very nervy at times.

Our two first half goals had great build up play and were both great finishes from Jarvis. An insightful run and good cross from Evans for the first and great vision and pin point execution from Collins for the second. Collins looks to be growing in confidence game by game and is becoming a real asset - gets through a fair shift defensively too. Looking at the chances in the second half, Jarvis could have easily had six goals yesterday from good creative work from Evans, Collins, Stobbs and Nouble. Lapslie’s absence was apparent and compounded I thought by a slightly jaded Hall. Hopefully, it is not a long term thing for Laps and the knock to Asa is not too serious. Come the end we looked dead on our feet, but hopefully the impact of 5 wins on the bounce will counter that for Tuesday. A word also for Dawson, who has been another real asset and his impact across the team appears far more than his own personal contribution.

No matter how long I look at the table, I still come to the conclusion that we will run out of games and that Wrexham one looks a killer. I hope I am wrong, but it is so frustrating that we have finally hit on something and it is likely to have come a couple of weeks too late to save us.

OK, team is taking shape. Can’t recall if Liam Rosenior could play left back, but for the purposes of this rather pointless exercise he can. This leaves us with a defence of

Rosenior Lawrence Bould Smith

Midfield

Randell - Simon Milton - Racci

Up front

Roberts - Sturridge

Need a goalie and an outfield player. Probably cheating, but I vaguely recall John Turner and Mark Loram were with us on loan before re-signing. Alternatively, play Keith Curle and push Rosenior forward. I think Curle was a winger when he played for us in the 80s though, unless I have completely made that up.

Apologies for hijacking the match thread!

Admiral wrote: ↑01 Apr 2023, 21:11 Wasn’t Danny Racchi on loan? He was influential

Not sure if he was on loan? If so, decent option alongside Randell in midfield?

Mr Tea808 wrote: ↑01 Apr 2023, 20:44 Hold my hands up folks, thought Nouble was a loanee.As for loan signings from the past, I rate Dean Sturridge from years gone by.

Good shout with Sturridge. Wonder if we could get a full eleven of historic loan stars?

Alas, this is likely to just prolong the agony, but if we had this starting eleven for 5 additional games, I think we would be fine. Thought we deserved it today. Particularly for the first 35 minutes of the second half. Should have scored a couple more. Collins took his goal well. Scunthorpe were dreadful mind. Whatever happens, that will be our last trip to Glandford Park for a while.

I have been impressed with Nouble’s application and contribution. Even half fit and lacking sharpness he has added something that we have lacked along side Jarvis. Strong hold up play, decent touch and brings others into play. Clearly has a bit of know how and a presence.

Dawson has also been a good addition - If he is available for next year, I’d keep him.

This is probably more a reflection of the level we are playing at, but in my 40 years of supporting I am not sure I have seen a loanee player so clearly in such a different class to our and opposition players than Nico Lawrence. I hope he goes on with his development as he has been superb. Maybe Jason Roberts in 98, but we had much better players to play alongside him with the likes of Rodney Jack. Simon Milton maybe in the 80s maybe?