Torquay United Fans Forum

Taelee73 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2024, 19:03 If there is decent funding available, then Downes, Sims aren't the answer. Too inexperienced as managers, no real success on the CV. If we have no money, then yes maybe.

Nicho is learning at Exeter and I can't really believe he'd come back.

Proven manager, but one that embraces new ideas, no idea who. But most definitely it needs to go out to external applications. Maybe the manager of Worthing, who play attractive attacking football?

Sims? John Sims has already dabbled in Torquay United management so, like Nicho, is probably unlikely to come back, and if Sims is the man who kept goal for Aston Villa in the 1957 F.A. Cup Final he obviously would not be the answer, as he has been deceased for six years. Ex-Watford centre half Steve Sims is in his late sixties with no notable football management experience so would probably not be in contention, so Downes may have to be the default choice in the absence of decent funding.

RedGull1902 wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024, 22:42 Eastbourne have 4 better goals in that case

Not if they lose and Taunton don't. A 5 goal swing would be necessary as Eastbourne will have a better goals scored figure, but that only needs eg 2-0 and 0-3 to be achieved. It probably will require Taunton to win both their remaining games to survive but I was pointing out that a win and a draw could be sufficient for Taunton to survive. With Braintree chasing a top 3 place Eastbourne would be under a lot of pressure away to them in their last game if Taunton manage to beat Weymouth by more than one goal.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑16 Apr 2024, 22:27 Its much simpler really...
Taunton have to win both of their games to survive.

Don't wish to be pedantic but if you check you will see that a win and a draw could be enough for Taunton to survive if Eastbourne lose their last match away to Braintree.

Minneapolisgull wrote: ↑13 Apr 2024, 17:35 It really is looking good with other results going against us.
Need to pull one out of the bag tuesday night.

Good - for whom?

MoxGull2502 wrote: ↑09 Apr 2024, 15:21 Nobody cares about Jarvis he spends more time injured on current form and goals scored AJB will overtake him on goals scored by the season end.
Spot the difference one is a full back on loan with passion and the other is a Marquis signing !

I didn't realise that Jarvis was a member of European nobility - perhaps Boules is his forte.

RobinStubbsHero wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 19:04 On the basis that the Bristows threw money at the club until it ran out, then Osborne did pretty much the same, what does the future hold? Between them, the investment must head towards £10 million with little or nothing to show in terms of on field achievements.
Part time football, possibly at a lower level seems to be the only way forward.

£10 million to win the National League South Championship represents good value for money if you consider the millions that must have been spent since 1927 to win ... nothing! Only being a windup merchant - you are probably correct as TUFC have been living beyond their means for years.

MellowYellow wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 16:33 Please stop! To align the existence of TUFC to a man who tried to redefine German socialism to control and harm other people has the intellectual equivalence of discovering there was no Santa Claus.

Read and inwardly digest before making a comment which shows that you do not understand the point that is being made, especially when you have just exploded the urban myth that Clarke Osborne has a long white beard, wears a funny red suit and has his office at the North Pole. Of course there is no correlation between Hitler and Osborne but whilst Armstrong might not have walked on the Moon if Adolf had copped a fatal bullet on the Western Front, it could also be argued that TUFC might no longer exist if Uncle Clarke had pulled the plug seven years earlier than he did and that play-off drama and the solitary championship would never have occurred.

happytorq wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 15:43 I dunno - if your argument boils down to "but Hitler actually got a lot right!", it feels like you're onto a loser.

The argument isn't that "Hitler actually got a lot right" the argument is that some things which were beneficial for Germany were developed whilst Hitler was in power regardless of his motivation or influence etc. In the same way it was beneficial for TUFC to be able to exist as a football club in a national league regardless of the motive for Osborne's investment.

Southampton Gull wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 15:27 You've tried to get what out of me? I've laid all the information out on here many times so if you're unaware that isn't my fault. I actually agree with a lot of what BigDave says except that he credits Osbo(u)rne whereas I don't.

I was given information at the time, in confidence, and by someone who should know....... I have always held that confidence but posted what I could at every opportunity. If he or she wants to divulge any more to satisfy your blinkered curiosity then that's up to them.

Talee, the point of this forum is to discuss matters, if you don't like what is being said then scroll on by instead of adding a pointless view, especially considering your continued arguments with Yeofan.

I don't credit Osborne - I just recognise that Armageddon might have arrived a hell of a lot earlier without his investment regardless of his motives.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 13:44 Do you that as a fact??
Did you know that there were other potential new owners looking to buy the club instead of Osborne? But they were pushed aside??
It was the players "fault." They missed them.
Ever since that day Osborne took another route, for us to be where we are now.
Blame the council??
Well, that would have worked out well wouldn't it?
He'd have got the freehold and we wouldn't have a stadium, because he'd have never built one - just like for all the other sporting teams he's been involved with.

Try reading the post before you reply and then try to understand it. (It would also help if your own posts made sense without having to guess the missing words.) I would not expect you to recognise irony or sardonicism particularly as your use thereof is palpably inadvertent: "we wouldn't have a stadium, because he'd have never built one" - presumably so much more satisfying to have a stadium without a team to play in it.

Obviously the players were to blame for missing penalties and obviously the council is blameless but all the knowing comments now about rejected alternatives to Osborne do have a whiff of hindsight about them. At the time there was apprehension about his track record (pun intended) but even Southampton Gull was posting in March 2016 " I spent last week looking into his links with Swindon Robins speedway and other involvements and he does have success with finding places to develop. He was part of a group that bought Pontins out but couldn't find out much more than Merse has revealed. Is it a bad move for the club? I'm not sure either way but what I do know is that the current Board need to bring in some kind of investment or the club will go under. TUST are still not in a position to do anything so what choice do we have?" and in April 2016 "I want to know as much as anyone else what the incoming people envisage for the club BUT I trust the current Board to do what is in the best interests of our club. We all have an emotional interest which is obviously what sets it apart from Tesco, I figured most would take that as read, obviously not. The point remains the same though, it is a business for those coming in and it has had to be run as a business by those who took over last summer. It baffles me why people don't grasp that and continue still to demand some answers."

At the time of the takeover by Osborne, TUFC were in a financial mess and in a relegation battle (albeit n a higher division): plus ca change.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 09:26 I've heard it all now - Hitler and Osborne...
It was blatantly obvious what he was up to - have you forgotten his "new stadium?" A mock up of one already used!
If he was so keen for us to move to a new stadium, why didn't he just build one first?
Oh, hang on, he's never done that before, so why start now?
Have you not considered that after 5 yrs and his "5 year plan" when he finally realised that his £5m gamble wasn't going to work, that's when he decided to put the club into administration?

Yes it was blatantly obvious but without his £5m gamble and 5 year plan it was even more blatantly obvious that TUFC would go into administration 5 years earlier: if you thought about it, even you and UnitedinDevon should be able to realise that. I am no apologist for Osborne but what you don't seem to be able to understand is that he was not responsible for the fact that he had an opportunity: the responsibility for that lies with the previous maladministration.
Why be concerned with motive when the reprieve is the important thing? Why don't you blame the Council for failing to keep him on the hook regarding his gamble for another few years? Who was at fault for Waters, Wright and Buse missing penalties in the play-off final that could have taken TUFC back to the EFL? Season ticket holders with 15+ years experience and an ego as big as their blinkers will doubtless blame Uncle Clark for that as well.
Many TUFC fans have delusions of grandeur which cloud their judgement but in nearly a century of playing in English national leagues the only title that Torquay United have won is the National League South in 2019 when Osborne was the chairman. I have followed TUFC for 40 years, during which time they have provided a great deal of excitement and entertainment, but the 'Yellow Army' can be very fickle if results are not what they desire and I can remember the Popside showing their disapproval of Mike Bateson. However, since he relinquished control the Club has been poorly run and in decline to the point that it may well soon cease to exist.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 23:41 What you seem to forget is that Osborne saw an opportunity to to what he had done before several times.

That is irrelevant and a facile comment. Whatever Osbourne's motive was for loaning money and taking ownership rather than forcing administration, it does not negate the fact that the Football Club has continued to operate for a further five years or more. Hitler wasn't a very nice man who invaded countries, caused a World War and was responsible for millions of deaths but that doesn't obliterate the fact that there were some technological and economic developments in Germany whilst he was in power. Osbourne isn't in the same league as Adolf but whilst it is obvious that his ultimate ambition was not beneficial for TUFC in the long term, it should not be denied that there was a long delay of several years between acquisition and entering administration which was of short-term benefit to the Club. I have not forgotten the promotion and the play-offs (or, for that matter, the relegations) that occurred during Osbourne's tenure but none of those were predicated on his property development motives and none of those would have occurred if administration had happened in 2017 rather than now as the Club would not have survived in its present form.

UnitedinDevon wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 17:58 The nonsense continues

Osbourne did not purchase the club at all

We defaulted on a loan - that he would have known we couldn't have paid back - with ownership as collateral

Lots of reasons why we were in that position in the first place....!

Can't even be bothered to respond to the deluded postings of culmstock

Presumably you split hairs as a profession. The point that you seem to miss is that Osbourne acquired the club - a defaulted loan is even worse than a purchase as the Club was obviously bust at the time. He could have gone into administration at any time so every game that Torquay have played since that date is surely a bonus - win, lose or draw - but maybe you don't see it like that. I suppose that you haven't been to any matches or seen any games since Osbourne made a loan that he knew would not be repaid because to do so would prevent you from admitting that the Club had not yet folded. Culmstock may sometimes be deluded in his postings but not on this occasion. TUFC have had a roller coaster ride for the last five years and Osbourne has played a part in that - accept it as such.

I would rarely agree with culmstockgull but the fact still remains that Osbourne purchased the club before it went into administration, so one can assume that the previous owner chose to sell it to him. There may have been insider assistance, there may have been other interested parties who could/would not compete with him and you may be privy to knowledge that you are unable to disclose (I guess that the laws of libel may be a factor) but none of that changes the situation. Whatever arises from administration now could have arisen five years ago if the club had gone into administration then, and concerns about relegation could have related to the Southern League or lower rather than the National League South. It is a long time since Torquay United were financially stable and Osbourne's tenure did not improve that but it did maintain football at a potentially higher level than might otherwise have been the case.
Incidentally, the list of the Administrators' past 'successes' bristles with EFL and Premier League clubs but also includes Scarborough FC whose fate since that balmy evening in May 1998 may be a worrying harbinger of what awaits TUFC.

Southampton Gull wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 11:31 It's funny how you're always the first to moan at people if you feel insulted and there you go attacking those who don't fall for the nonsense of your pro Osborne mantra. It's no wonder the likes of people like Osborne get away with doing what they do when gullible people like you continue to defend his practices. What exactly is it you feel so worthy of your continued defence of him? He didn't save us from anything, he was part of a group who saw a chance to make money at the expense of our football club. It could have and still might cause our club to go our of existence or did that point go over your head? I know of at least one person who uses this site who no longer has the chance to follow one of his sporting loves because of Osborne. He almost lost another. Let that sink in before you go off at those with more foresight than you.

You are normally fairly even handed with your posts and it is obvious that it was known that Osbourne would not be the long-term saviour of the club, as you indicated at the time and consistently thereafter. However, his purchase of the club did provide a 'stay of execution' for the club which did produce some memorable seasons, both good and bad, so can you explain exactly what would have happened to Torquay United if Osbourne had not provided the wherewithal to purchase the club?
Was there an alternative buyer who was gazumped or would the club have been in the position that it is in now, albeit several years earlier?
Vitriol for Osbourne is absolutely fine, especially if he elbowed out a prospective beneficial owner, but surely if his purchase merely delayed the inevitable by a few years we should appreciate the football that was played during that respite.
After having a final appeal rejected, does the prisoner on Death Row complain about the intervening stays of execution that have been granted?