Torquay United Fans Forum

went against the grain and went up last night of the first time this season wow they really are absolutely awful. the defending for the 2nd and 3rd goal was really something out of the keystone cop 11 handbook do people actually rate that Sean mcginty he is dire and gowling beside him is a accident waiting to happen. I watched luke young for a fair part of that game last night he cannot wait to get rid of the ball every time he has it rushed passes backwards passes no thrust whatsoever what has happened to him. It was a sad watch even worse was the many fans I chatted to last night all seam to have the same opinion that the owners and management of the club could not care a jot about what's going on the pitch. People I have known for many years the go every game brigade saying we should have done what you did and just walked away that's such a sad thing to hear. Can they rebuild you would hope so with the infistructure all in place and a loyal base of 1200 fans but they need to start with a bang next season to keep them. Is owers the man to do it I am not sure his body language last night was one of a beaten man. One other thing how would you price up season tickets and normal match day tickets next season what could they realistically expect people to pay to get in to watch the likes of Hemel hemsted and concord rangers difficult call that but one the need to get bang on.. stephen

Post by merse btpir » Yesterday, 23:42

Can I interject on this subject and say that there are talks going on between the football club and Ian's family and until there is a conclusion of those talks then I don't think it is really fair to pass any sort of judgement because (as yet) nothing has been proposed other than something suggested; or so I have been told.

I would however; agree that it would be a fitting tribute to him to name the pop side after him which would I am sure delight both his family and the supporters. These things cost very little and should it come to pass then money can be raised on subscription to embellish that tribute by way of a plaque or even bust/statue of the man.

In addition I would say to Steve that your views are more than valid; your opinions DO count, and far from in any way or fashion irrelevant to the current situation at the club and certainly lend an air of authenticity to the debate.

Hi Merse

Thanks for your words mate I have tried to answer these questions as honestly and as fairly as I can I hope people have enjoyed reading the replies and it has gone a little way to explaining about my time as c e o and despite what happened it was my greatest ever honour to serve the club and its fans even though it was only for a short period of time. I made many mistakes but everything I tried to do was in the best interests of the club never about my own ego. Stephen

Unread post by Teigngull » Yesterday, 22:48

Hi Stephen.
On a different matter & quite a personal issue with me regarding the very sad loss of Torquay legend Ian Twitchin as he was my schoolboy hero as I've never been a fan of any other club.
How do you feel the the club should honour Twitch ?
I ask because a lot of noise was made about it soon after Ian suddenly passed away & now just about 2 short months on from that sad day in December it all seems to have been conveniently forgotten.
Ian was a loyal servant to Torquay & a long lasting memorial would be a fitting tribute to him would the naming of the pop side after him be a fitting tribute or would you encourage the club to do it a different way ?
Your thoughts would be of great interest to me.
Many thanks for what you have done for TUFC & very best wishes for your future ventures.

Hi Teigngull

Firstly thank you for your kind words much appreciated I think merse comment about this is right b4 any criticism of the club over this I think we will have to wait a little longer as it seams the club are in active communication over this matter. Personally I think the Ian twitchen pop side stand would be the correct way to honour this legend of the club. I had a pleasure of meeting him on a few occasions and he was a lovely fella and spoke about the club with great fondness. I also perhaps think a special match day presentation to his family or a proper unveiling of this accolade would go down well to give all the fans an opportunity to show there appreciation to this man and what he gave to our special club.

One more small point I would like to make as we all know Torquay also lost one of its favourite sons recently in Cedric munslow and even though I was not there to witness it the club marked his passing correctly and in a special way as I did manage to watch it on a you tube video so fair play to Geoff harrop and the club for doing this. I appreciate the club seam to be getting many things wrong but on this matter I am sure the efforts of the club where greatly appreciated.. Once again thanks teigngull for your kind words its hard watching from far away these days but I feel the fans pain in what you are having to endure and just hope and pray that the club can turn around find form and give all long suffering fans something to smile about. One of the best memories I will ever have is that day at Bromley when we stayed up under very tough circumstances something to this day that would put a tear in the eye .... stephen

Post by Scoutman » Yesterday, 18:38

Having read Mr Breeds post where he states that the |Exeter Trust model has had horrendous issues can I ask him what they were. I was under the impression that the club, not the Trust, requested a PFA loan in June 2014 which was paid back in August 2014. There was a possibility of another loan in December 2014 but the Trust was able to provide the club with the necessary funds. Their Trust has been able to provide the club with stability and being able to keep the club going their academy has developed players with high transfer values - Grimes £1.8m, Watkins £3m and now Ampadu to Chelsea for which a tribunal will set a fee £??m. Their Goalkeeper Pym played for England under 20s. Their football in the community is second to none and all with a Trust of 3,000 plus. If these are horrendous issues I would love our club to have a successful Trust.


Hi Scoutman

This comment just seems to follow me around regarding the broken model comment. Ok this was over 3 years ago and at the time Watkins ampadu ect were not part of any Exeter equation. That night at the museum was highly charged atmosphere the club was in dire straights and not that far from the wall that's the blanket bottom line we all know the story we then stepped up and stopped this happening. I was a member of the trust board for a while and a member after then for many years I have a lot of time and respect for the work they do and have supported them through my time as CEO and have met with the board on more than one occasion since I left my position . I am in no way anti trust but there are as many cons as there are pros to trust ownership at the moment Wrexham are a great example of how a trust can be a success well run with a major base of volunteers there are other good examples.

However Exeter city at that time were struggling and have encountered numerous issues regarding financing the club PFA loans and I don't think it was a secret at the time drawing Manchester united in the cup certainly helped the club survive. of course on paper they look now like they are doing great you pointed out big money for players and several cup draws as well have gone a long way to make them the club that they are. However even up to last season they served notice on their long time manager and seem to be in conflict with the football board you only have to go on their fans forum or do a bit of googling to know that. End of the day I am nothing to do with the club any more and my opinions don't really count for anything I did this Q&A because I was asked to see if I didn't mind and I have done that and hope people have found an interest in my answers. Stephen

Unread post by MellowYellow » 26 Feb 2018, 20:07

Steve

Given the financial circumstance at the time, how did you plan to remain full-time. Surely if relegated (as you thought we would be) the aim would still be to balance the books which given loss of revenue would mean at the very least a "watering down" of Torquay's full time status. I am a little surprised that no conversation occurred on this subject.



Hi Mellow

The plain fact is the board never sat down on this matter choosing to make the decision as and when relegation would have been confirmed either way. I remember being asked this question on radio Devon the bottom line was in my opinion the moment you go part time to me that's almost to admit to fail . If you are or almost always been part time then that's fair enough but being full time all through your clubs life and suddenly having to make this drastic change would have sunk the club further into the mire . That by the way is only my opinion the clubs board may have felt different but as the conversation never really happened no plans where ever put in place.. stephen

I agree totally greb46

Unread post by Richinns » less than a minute ago

Hi Steve

Now that we are all but confirmed relegated - can I ask if in the first season you guys were preparing from the same fate? (before the miraculous escape) and if so did your calculations lead to an automatic choice of going towards being either fully or partially part-time?

Thanks bud


Hi Richard

Hope you are well

A very good question that fact is We did start to prepare for relegation as I personally did not think we would stay up you are always hopeful but I certainly didn't think we had the players to turn it around. What I did not bank on was the incredible team spirit that seamed to manifest under Kevin and the do or die attitude that seamed to manifest its self from nowhere. It was always our intention to stay full time so the conversation never really happened re part time and when it went win after win after the end of feb even the thought of part time was way out the window. stephen

what an awful couple of results Torquay have had like people have said its the hope that kills and when you pick up 7 points out of 9 and are looking at 2 home games your confidence going into those game should have been sky high to lose both is just an absolute killer.. One thing I did notice the manager looks like he's just be given life without parole he speaking like the end of the world is nigh get your bloody head up and start inspiring people around you and yourself that's what managing is...

Post by torregull » 19 Jan 2018, 09:04

How influential was Peter Masters on decisions made by the Board during your time at the club-what's your opinion of him?

Hi Torregull

I will probably not make myself to popular with this answer but I personally found Pete Masters great. He was a help to the board and certainly not the man he seams to have been labelled with here. HIs opinions of the trust are based on his experiences with the Truro equivalent but to my knowledge he didn't ever express to me a blanket dislike for any member of trust of trust motives and actions. He was a man I could go to ask advice and I did on more than one occasion. I think people have to look at what he has done for Truro as a club they would be dead if it was not for him. As for influence well the board did take on board his opinions yet Dave merve and others are very strong characters in there own right so personally I don't think they would have been overly influenced by anybody. If I had a choice right now I would take Pete Masters as the owner of the club for one simple reason he is a winner.. stephen

Post by SBG » 19 Jan 2018, 08:38

Steve

Can you say what happened - what was the issue/final straw that suddenly happened - such that you were ostracised and no longer spoken to for the last 2 months of your tenure. I cant believe


Hi SBG

I can only answer this to a point. I have already alluded to the fact that there was a huge information leak from the club and what do you do in that situation you surround yourselves with the people that you think you trust best or plant stories to see if they come back to you via unorthodox routes. The basic fact that the board kept everything to themselves I was taken out of that Loup which by the way in the end proved it was not me as the chairman found to his cost towards the end of his reign. It was a very tough time for me personally simply because the last 2 months the team really picked up and I should have been able to enjoy that battle and win against relegation rather than walk about with a big target painted to my front and back .. stephen

Post by kevgull » 19 Jan 2018, 07:38

Hi Steve,
We can’t change the past but we can change the future.
How concerned are you with regards to the current management setup/ league position and what advice would you give TUFC supporters?

Just for the record, I think you have and will always have the club at heart. Forget the comments of the 2 or 3 abusive fans and remember those who were grateful that you took up the challenge and are honest enough to tell us about the good and not so good decisions that any inexperienced CEO might have made.
COYY!!

Hi Kev

My opinion is that the current set up simply isn't working the results sadly speak for themselves. However I am not in the blame owers camp for everything if he is having to work under the same constraints as the previous manager then take this from me no manager would be able to succeed. The league position is awful and sadly Torquay will not stay up this season I also happen to think that the league below will be no picnic despite the fact that torquay will be one of the biggest teams in in the league you have to fight fight and more fight to win that league and I doubt the club or the present manager have the stomach for that as they are showing at the moment.


As for advice well that's simple stick together as you can see on this forum there are major divisions in the fan base strike no strike back the club don't back the club trust or no trust people are very clever at dividing the fans here remember there is far more safety in numbers than not. If you all go in one direction then you will be amazed at what you can achieve. The main reason our board failed was division in the ranks everybody having different agendas sadly that is the best recipe to fail... stephen

easy answer Dave keep us in the league which he achieved

Hi all

Just for the record whether I agree or disagreed with Kevin Nicholson's appointment as manager it was certainly the boards choice which was totally within its remit where they wrong well Kevin kept Torquay up so in hindsight they where proved right to appoint him.

Post by SenorDingDong » Yesterday, 20:22

First of all, thank you for giving us this opportunity Steve. Few questions although I fully understand if you can't answer them at all or only provide certain information, don't say anything that would compromise yourself:

The Phillips Regime (probably likely not to be answered)

1. What was the reasoning behind the 1800 break even figure being so wrong in the first season under the Phillips board? We were told that it was a break even figure, yet despite the fans achieving that, the club staggered from crisis to crisis before the GI loan. Just how dangerously indebted (or how many liabilities remained) was the supposed 'debt free club' you inherited? Did Paul Cox really leave because of a dodgy car and not being paid a wage - if so why on earth did we have a DOF on £30k a year?

2. Why did the club go to GI for a loan rather than working with the fans? Was Norman Smurthwaithe's interest real? Was any due diligence done at all on Clarke Osborne and his company? The fans on the three forums had worked out a potted history of the company within days of the news of their involvement breaking. His involvement at Bristol Rovers and Hereford is quite damning before you look at his actions in other sports.

3. What was behind the blocking of communication between a board that swept in claiming to be 'the most fan friendly ever' and the fans, was it the influence of Peter Masters? Communication during the 2nd half of the Phillips regime was worse than under Bateson or Roberts - not due to you but because of the utter secrecy that the board operated under.

4. Following on from 3, what was behind Dave Phillips boldly stating that the club would not be sold to GI just weeks before the club was sold...to GI. Were there any other viable bidders? Furthermore why did the club deliberately string along the TUST, deny them the opportunity to try and fund a purchase of the club and treat them shoddily? Was this Peter Masters too? Amongst all the shenanigans of the past 5 years the stringing along of the TUST, eliminating any time for them to put together a proposal was perhaps the worst action perpetrated upon the fans.

5. The Truro City groundshare option. What was behind this baffling development? A front for Masters to get his foot in the door at the club via an injection of capital for a service never intended to be needed? Did the 'American' stadium developers ever actually exist?

The Future (Where you're likely to be able to answer)

1. What is your view on GI? Are we all being irresponible doom mongers or are our fears substantiated?

2. If you do think the club is in trouble, having worked behind the scenes and know more about the politics of the club and football than most of us, what would you advise to be the best way we can help in fighting to save the club?

3. What are your views on the Herald Express' utter silence over the entire matter and reluctance to even print basic information about GI/Clarke Osborne's background and involvement in sports?

4. Do you think the club is viable in it's present state and could it survive running full time in the National League South?

5. Do you still believe that the TUST option is a flawed model and if so does the club have a future? We have clearly tapped out any wealthy individuals in the region that want/have the ability to invest into the club. Exeter City seem to be proving that a supporters trust owned team can do well...well with a few lucky cup draws.



Hi Senor

A fair load of questions there I will do my best to answer them but obviously there are some things I cant and wont reveal.


The 1800 hundred break even figure was an estimated guess however what we did not foresee was going from 10 people pledges to 6 people pledges to 4 people pledges In a 2 month period and the level of staff redundancy requirements and previous court claims all served to make the initial 1800 figure incorrect.. Paul cox did not leave the club over a car but there where issues with the director of football that was a situation the club and myself where never proud of yet did what we could to try and resolve sadly I failed.. The director football as you know left his position 2 days after Paul did please remember Dean Edwards was a huge part in getting the group together which came in and therefore kept his job at Torquay united..


I have already answered regarding the G I loan Norman Smurthwaites interest in Torquay is very real I would also class Norman as a friend of mine so I can speak of that question with total knowledge of the situation, I think Norman would buy Torquay in a heart beat. Due diligence is another thing I cant comment on from a clubs position I can safely say I did my own research but as I spent the better part of 2 months hardly being spoken to I cant say either way as to what the club did in relation to any checks.


Something Dave Phillips and I totally agreed on was the need to communication at the club he was all for fans forums statements press releases the works however throughout the regime there was a serious breach with information being leaked out of the club things where going on forums and this caused massive issues. I cant blame the club at all for the stance in took in this matter it was only after I left the club did I find out the source of the leak and so did the chairman sadly the chairman was treated disgustingly..


I cannot comment on Dave stating that the club would not be sold to G I I simply was not there at that time Dave said and did everything he could with the resources to hand. What you have to remember is Dave Merve and others where not rich people they did everything they could to keep the club afloat. I don't believe for one Minuit that Dave strung the trust along actually nor any other board member. Do I think there where other viable bidders well if there was I don't think for A second that G I would own the club today if Dave would have had options. He called it how he seen it at the time what that man has gone through is an absolute disgrace I realize people have there own opinions and will disagree with me about Dave but his heart bleeds this club ask yourselves who else stepped up when the going got tough we pleaded for extra help he did I did we all did. I think Dave deserves far more credit than he will ever receive and that comes from a man who told him straight to his face how much he hated his guts for which I am immensely sorry for..



Truro Ground share would have been a good short term solution to a financial shortfall but going forward the money would have been negated as there would have had to be large work needed on the pitch to have coped with the extra games. The American investors defiantly existed I met them several times they where a very decent bunch of men. however the obstacles at the time for this project where just to big to cross.



My view on G I is simple they inherited a tough situation like we did but you only have to spend a few minuets googling to start alarm bells ringing. My hope is that they see Torquay as a football project going forward and they start to communicate properly with fans and trusts alike to pave a way for a rosier future..



My view is that all the fans and I mean all pull in one direction and attempt to either find a buyer or communicate effectively with G I to gain fans representation on the board to share feelings and thoughts. At the moment there is a huge them and us scenario going on and that cant be good for anyone concerned perhaps trust is the answer..


Yes I believe the club is viable and could survive relegation and in order to try and get promoted next season would have to stay full time going part time for me would be an admitting to fail and suicidal if the club has any real ambition of returning to former glories ..


I have spent A few years answering for a comment I made in a meeting at the museum about trusts being a flawed model. In reality What I said was you cant use the likes of Exeter city as a model to base yourselves on as there trust model has had horrendous issues and at the time they had gone to the pfa 3 times for loans in a year to support this trust model . However going forward looking at a club like Wrexham who's model seams to work really well there really is no reason to suggest that a fans owned club at Torquay could not be successful it takes time dedication and the right leadership and very willing volunteers so why not go for it what's there to lose...


Stephen

Post by CP Gull » Yesterday, 21:19

Hi Steve - good to see you back on here!

I won't ask you to confirm whether or not Kevin Nicholson was your first choice or not - but would be interested to know who you would have liked to have replaced Chris Hargreaves? I know at the time your initial thoughts were to go for someone experienced at this level - before Nicho even applied. At the time I hoped we might go for Neil Aspin - just sacked by Halifax - who was someone I would have liked to see us go for. He has since gone on to bigger and better things of course (Gateshead and now Port Vale). Just wondered if he was ever a realistic target? Or was he out of our price bracket? Ultimately I guess it wasn’t your decision who was appointed at the end of the day?

Chris

Hi C P Gull

Hope you are well Chris.

3 Parts to this answer When we placed Chris Hargreaves on gardening leave we pretty much knew that Paul cox was our man I was personally delighted With the capture of Paul he had experience of winning the league and holding his own in league 2 and in bringing in John Ramshaw I felt it was the perfect team to take the club on and stabilize the playing side of the club. When Paul left I was personally devastated I knew the ramifications would be huge and take this from me I personally did everything I could to not only keep Paul but virtually agree to him coming back for the Boreham wood game on the Tuesday night. sadly from my perspective the club decided to go in a different direction.

Neil Aspin was never a realistic target He had only just been sacked at his previous club and no contact was ever made he did not apply for the job. I took general control of the process to find a new manager and presented to the board thoughts and my feelings on the matter. We had 4 very strong applicants for the job and they where all interviewed using a thorough process between 2 board members and myself conducting those interviews. For the record Kevin Nicholson is a close personal friend of mine and knows completely my views on him being appointed manager so I am not breaking any trusts here. I don't think it will come as any great surprise that I was against appointing Kevin as manager not only for the club where I felt we had better options but for Kevin himself how is now suffering for his decision to become manager at the club.

Will Kevin get another job in football that is very debatable as I think Chris Hargreaves found out when he left Torquay. I think that Kevin should have become a number 2 and learnt his trade before stepping into a situation like we found ourselves in at Torquay. Despite my opinions and the fact that Kevin was not even in my top 3 the board asked me to appoint Kevin and the rest we say is history. So the answer is Chris no Kevin was not my choice whatsoever for his and our sake and I would have much preferred a more experienced manager so Kevin could have worked alongside him to gain the knowledge before stepping into the top job... Stephen