Torquay United Fans Forum

wivelgull wrote: ↑18 Mar 2019, 10:40 Scarborough lost at home AGAIN on Saturday, after which defeat their manager was sacked. Without a doubt they are the worst team I have seen this season, beating them 2-0 at home on New Year's Day (Att: 1318). They are now after our manager, it seems, though I doubt they'll be successful. Deeply hated by everyone, Scarborough FC are on the decline!!

It's no secret in evo stik north circles that Scarborough have been really poor since the turn of the year leaving them a job on just to get the final play off spot where automatic looked nailed on pre New Year. It's been such a disappointment and ex manager Steve Kittrick has been questioned repeatedly and now he's paid the price.

I didn't go to the Whitby game but by all accounts it was a really embarrassing performance by the seadogs. Not good for a fierce local derby. I watched Scarborough away at Matlock a few weeks back in what was one of the worst games i've ever seen (0-0) at any level. I do worry that fans are getting ideas above their station too quickly however as this is first season in evo stik north after promotion last term and it's not as simple as just steamrollering all before you especially at a higher level.

I would have given Kittrick another season. It is what it is. (Wivel might get that :~D ).

I think your assumption that Scarborough are deeply hated by everyone is way off the mark though Wivel. Perhaps a few miles up the A171 yes but they've always been well received by most clubs and fans and i'm sure fans of other clubs accept that an ex league club based in a large town is likely to have a bigger potential fanbase than the likes of Matlock and Buxton. It is what it is. :na:

As for the decline? More fans than Morecambe. More fans than just about every other club at that level bar South Shields. A new stadium. A new stand approved and being constructed. A functioning website and second to none commercial operations. Productive partnership with local council and businesses. On the verge of NLN despite only being formed 10 years ago through nothing more than sheer determination, hard work, dedication, fan engagement and efficient management on and off the field. Wow. That's some decline.

It's the likes of Whitby who will continue to spend their lives in the lower reaches of non league because they don't know how to achieve what Scarborough have.

Anyway, that's just a reply to Wivel. Obviously this isn't a Scarborough forum so apologies. Skip if offended. :Oops:

standupsitdown wrote: ↑18 Mar 2019, 09:47 A phoenix club is far from ideal. It is a last resort if the club goes into liquidation. Hopefully when Osborne decides to go he will be willing to sell for much less than he's put into the club and we can find an owner (or fan ownership) that wants to own & run Torquay United for football reasons. It is however right to consider all possibilities and if the club is liquidated an AFC may be the only way to keep Torquay United (AFC) alive.

Yes agree. A phoenix club should now be considered an option only if the current club go under. As has been correctly pointed out to me by quite a few posters over the years which i disagreed with, an 'AFC Torquay' cannot be viable whilst there is still a fully operational TUFC. I disagreed then but fully agree now.

One only has to look at AFC Mansfield who were formed in 2012 as a break off protest club to rebel against then then MTFC who were being run into the ground by the then owners. Much like Blackpool, the owners eventually left the club and it is now owned by multi millionaire One Call Insurance founder John Radford, a local lad and Mansfield fan who has now invested heavily and turned the club around.

Meanwhile AFC Mansfield flounder in the Northern Premier League Div 1 East and some founding fans have defected back across to MTFC now they are doing well for themselves. This serves as an example, as does FC United of Manchester as to why forming a breakaway club whilst the club they are breaking away from is still in operation is not viable. I see that now but it took a long, long time. =D

Also football clubs are in a much better position as fan owned clubs if they are still in their current guise and simply just get taken over by fans. Exeter for example have gone from strength to strength and whilst that model has it's flaws, it's the best option available if a club wishes to be competitive without being overly ambitious, retain league status and give fans a voice.

Fan owned clubs that start from scratch have an altogether more difficult task ahead and for these clubs i believe most won't ever make it to the EFL without a sugar daddy. Completely going against why they started out in the first place.

I am of the opinion that if you are a fan of a start up phoenix club then you should expect to remain non league while ever it is fan run. For some fans though this is the only other option to having no club at all.

standupsitdown wrote: ↑16 Mar 2019, 11:04 I hope it doesn't happen but there are a number of clubs who have reformed and moved up through the leagues. Hereford are probably the most similar to us and their crowds have held up even at very low levels. Obviously it would need council support as they own the freehold but I would hope they'd want to keep the club alive.
We may not have a choice if Osborne wants out or gets the freehold but doesn't build a stadium.

Reforming and becoming a phoenix club is not a panacea for everything sadly. Up until a year or so ago i vehemently believed that it was THE only solution for Torquay United going forward but after spending time watching clubs like Scarborough on a regular basis and getting a real first hand insight into it all i can honestly say that i don't think it would work.

Not only that but it's not much fun either unless you happen to be a real hardened fan of grass, grass, grass, grass roots football. I'm talking a handful of blokes and a dog on odd occasions. I'm sure many on here who go and watch local football in their local areas will attest to this. For a newly formed club to start at the very bottom and for enough if it's fans to stay on board throughout to make it viable is a very, very hard task to achieve.

Scarborough are one of the best supported sides in non league (below NL) and although they have had a handful of promotions since reforming ten years ago and made great strides they are now finding it a little tougher, even with ex league players in their ranks such as ex York and Barnsley attacker Michael Coulson. With these better players comes higher wages and then it becomes a balancing act between progress and frugality.

They currently occupy last spot in the evo stik premier play offs from Gainsborough but it could easily be a second season in there if they fail to get promoted again. I have spoken to fans and read on social media from Scarborough fans questioning how far this model is able to take them which sounds daft considering where they have come from but humans are funny things - when they get more then they seem to want even more than more. If that makes sense?

Not only that it's the sheer amount of work required for everyone involved simply to keep the club functional let alone dynamic and forward thinking. For every club like AFC Wimbledon who have made it into the EFL, there are the likes of Hereford, Darlington and Scarborough who seem to storm through the lower non league divisions with ease initially but then comes the plateau and the bar is reached. Sadly for those clubs some way away from the EFL.

The dream soon becomes harder to reach than expected and in some cases might never be reached for a very long time, if ever.

I was ill informed and uneducated when i spent the last 5 years of my life ranting against Gulls supporters for not wanting to start a phoenix club and becoming something of a pariah but i was wrong and they were right. Osborne clearly isn't the answer but currently the club is stable and not far off back where they want to be and it's just a matter of biding time and digging in. Like the Blackpool fans have done. It's far from perfect and the fans have been treated disgracefully by a succession of owners / club officials but still the show has to go on.

In the hope that one day Osborne will get fed up and the club will find a more suitable owner to help ease the concerns of the fanbase. Osborne won't own the club forever so until that day............

It's far too late for me as i've burned many bridges with the club and a lot of it's fans with passionate and extremist outbursts and we all have to move on with things in life but for those of you that stuck with it and are still doing so - you don't need a phoenix club. Just patience, hope and an iron will. As most of you have in abundance.

It was always unsustainable. A bit like Forest Green. If Dale Vince pulls out they are goners.

Yeah that's fair enough Dave. Just wanted to give the thread a bump that's all. Maybe CO is reading and it will remind him to BUILD A F*CKING STADIUM!!

An idea he proposed many moons ago, like the local board idea and that has still yet to materialize. Much like the site it is to built on, any workmen or indeed any viable plans of said new stadium.

Fair points Chris. I was more trying to highlight that things appear to have gone quiet on the CO front from the fans just because things on the pitch are going well. Osborne has put in money yes but don't think for one second he'll not be getting that back and more when he decides to leave the club - stadium or no stadium.

Compare two teams.

Blackpool and Torquay

Blackpool fans protested and stayed away in huge numbers until the bitter end in their dispute with owner Oyston. Even when enjoying success on the field beating Exeter in the L2 play off final at Wembley the other year, most Blackpool fans stayed away from league games and from their big day at Wembley and kept up their protest to oust a rogue owner. Oyston is gone and the club can start again.

Torquay fans didn't protest and Osborne is still the owner. Success (relatively speaking) is starting to come (albeit in NLS) and a few months of good football and a few wins have seen the protestations about a property developers ownership vanish into thin air so it would seem. In fact crowds are buoyed by the recent triumphs on the pitch unlike Blackpool where their triumphs on the pitch were met with up to 3 quarters of their usual fanbase not seeing it.

Osborne is still getting away with it everyone. Even promotion to NL doesn't alter that.

Be more Blackpool.

Gloomy Gull wrote: ↑28 Feb 2019, 15:13 Braaazzill from the Westcountry, Braaazzill from the Westcountry

There hasn't been much chance to sing that in recent seasons...……...until now !!

How come? Brazil are shit as well!

One aspect of songs / chants that i always found a very personal thing to TUFC and something that really set us apart and backed our players was the fact that just about every player had a mini chant about them individually and when they ran out onto the pitch before a game we used to go through the side and often get acknowledgement from those players.

I feel it's important for each player to have their own song and to recognize each player. I've not ever seen any other football club fans sing songs for each individual before a game (and during) and that did make me proud to be a supporter back then.

Songs like

der der der - Danny Stevens
super Rene Howe, Rene Howe - Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuper Rene Howe! Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah
Nicholson! Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicholson! Nicholson! Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicholson!
Martin Gritton is a yellow goal machine, yellow goal machine, yellow goal machine. (my fave actually)
Lee Lee - Lee Mansell (also used for Canoville)
Karl Hawley, Hawley Hawley Hawley (although he didn't deserve a song as he was absolute dogshite).
We've got the boy from up the road Benyon, Benyon.
Oastler had one but can't remember it.
Saah! Saah will tear you apart - again. Saah!
We love you Reuben! (Reuben Hazell)

and many more

I just think each player should have a little tune about him that fans can bang out in appreciation.

nickbrod wrote: ↑27 Feb 2019, 20:55 I think the next trip to Essex - Billericay - is likely to be even more of a fight.

Quite literally probably given the numpties amongst fans of both sides. Expect another impromptu Stone Island fashion shoot.

Midlandgull wrote: ↑17 Feb 2019, 10:12 I know it was "mad bants" in the eyes of Ben Gerring and the children he was chanting with... but I do find it a bit silly as he runs a business in Torquay....

51 summerfield road
Tq2 7dl Torquay

07932 047609
Contact Ben - DB Luxury Cars Ltd on Messenger

Www.dbluxurycarsales.com

Midlandgull makes a great point.

With social media output that makes him come across as an imbecile, who in their right mind would actually hand over money and their trust for a 'luxury car'?!

He acts like the kind of 'car dealer' that Mr Matt Allwright should be paying a visit to. :~D

F*ck me that's some tragedy that. It's amazing what some people are prepared to put their face to. :Oops:

At the end of the day he's an absolute nobody who is simply doing what a lot of other nobodies are doing. Posting videos of themselves online acting like nobodies. The irony being they aren't actually acting.

Issuing banning orders at this level is ridiculous. Just fine these tobies 5 grand to paid within 6 months otherwise they get a year inside.

Most wannabe hoolies will then limit their embarrassing, laughable behaviour to no more than a few insults.

Solves the problem by and large in one fell swoop. No brainer.

That's the problem with today's weak and nonsensical legal system. It doesn't come close to even addressing a problem let alone solving it.

Draconian punishments for casual offenders stops most of them in their tracks because i'm sure they do have half a brain cell hidden away somewhere and even they (or their parents :Oops: ) wouldn't want to find 5k or do a years bird. The more hardcore offenders well that's a different story but generally most football trouble is caused by slightly errant youths thinking they are ten men and getting carried away. Fine them 5 grand or a year inside and most will behave in future.

You'll never rid the game of the hardcore but nipping it in the bud with younger ones by way of severe punishments will stop most of it.

As it is though the judges give them a slap on the wrist and the clubs issue banning orders that are simply not enforcable and thus this behavior is allowed to continue and to disrupt the enjoyment of games for proper grown ups.

When all said and done though i do believe low level disorder and general disruptive behaviour by a growing number of younger fans at lower league and non league is on the increase again. I've seen quite a few games recently and witnessed appalling scenes at most games so perhaps it is indicative of a nationwide trend and obviously not exclusive to Torquay.

Which one?!

Legend. Absolutely fantastic addition.

Wow! What an impact GJ has had! Really pleased for all you Gulls as promotion now looks a good bet. I don't know whether it's because GJ has worked miracles or that Owers was just ridiculously shite that the vast transformation in fortunes has arisen.

One thing it proves though is that for once, since Ling, the club have a manager who knows what he is trying to do and knows what he is doing. Makes a lot of difference and perhaps is one of the few aspects of running the football club that Osborne can be congratulated on.

COYY!