Torquay United Fans Forum

I think we are indeed going to look back on that cold night at Dagenham last Tuesday as the turning point in the season.

Just back.
Good result. Deserved the draw.
Having been to Dagenham and Southend we don't look like a relegation team.

Much as I don't want to see a defensive display, nor must we get hammerred. In our position 1.0 is not the same as 4.0. Currently our goal difference is worth an extra point over the 6 other clubs fighting relegation, but other than Accrington, there are now only a few goals in it. A heavy defeat would almost be like losing a point.

It wasn't that we got a point but the way we got it. To be honest after 15 minutes I'd have taken a 1.0 defeat and maintained our goal difference. Dagenham were making chances, we weren't challenging hard enough to win the 50:50 balls and didn't look like we'd score if the game went on for a week.

But the second half was completely different. Spirit and determination. With a bit more luck and a better referee would would have won.

From talk of Braintree away next season there was a belief in the stand and I think on the pitch, that we can stay up.

Just back after a freezing but most enjoyable evening.
Superb support from the 114.
Great second half performance and unlucky not to win. Players showed fight & spirit - just what's needed to stay up.
This could really be the turning point.
Looking forward to Southend now.

I live 5 miles away and no snow fell overnight.
It's cold but forecast to be 2/3C in daytime and about zero this evening.
I think it should go ahead OK.

Very cold in East London / Essex tonight. Snow on & off all day but not really settled. More forecast tonight and down to -4 but then warmer tomorrow, 4-5 degrees. So I think the match should be on OK but wrap up warm!

I'd be very surprised if we have less than 100 on Tuesday. London games usually get reasonable support from those of us living in the South East.

I haven't been to a game since Barnet away, but will be at Dagenham, Southend & Gillingham, plus Bristol Rovers, so am commenting just based on others reports.

It seems clear to me that something has to change or the decline won't be stopped. New players, new system or new manager. If not, just a lucky win might change the player's outlook.

Minor consollation was to come back to the computer and after thinking Accrington had won and then finding they conceded 8 minutes into injury time - that's what we expect from Torquay.

Dagenham are very poor so I wouldn't rule out getting something on Tuesday.

I've only seen two games this season (Plymouth & Barnet) so am yet to see a goal scored - but that seems to be the biggest problem. Inability to finish. One very good forward (for this level) but not much else up front.

Shouldn't have lost last night - looked like scoring every time we went forward in first half but faded in second. Looked like a clear penalty and if not a dive - ref & lino bottled it. Have to say Edgar David made a differnece for Barnet - by far the best passer on the pitch and seems to have got them organised with some innovation at set pieces.

One more observation - was it necessary ot have 8 police officers at the match. I spoke to one at half time who said Met policy is minimum of 6 for any game in London, but there was no risk of trouble last night. No burglars to catch in Barnet?

My first away match since Hereford tonight.
I like Barnet. Good noise on the terrace and we usually win.
Frost in Essex this morning. Will be cold tonight.

An Early Day Motion has been raised in Parliament with the aim to build support amongst MPs for a relaxation in the government’s stance to allow safe standing trials in the Premier League or Championship (it is hoped that such trials will soon go ahead in Scotland, where the SPL have backed standing and the Act does not apply).

The Football Supporters’ Federation are urging supporters to contact their MPs to get them to sign this EDM.

Please follow this link to read more and email your MP.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding/index.php

It is not law that fans should sit in the seats provided. If a club recklessly ignored safety regulations and there was an incident, yes they would be liable. Clubs are choosing not to stop standing, but if it were a real risk of course they wouldn’t. I haven’t been in the Bench but it from the Pop Side it looks quite steep, so maybe Torquay feel the need to get stewards to try to get fans to sit. Maybe next time they’ll open the away terrace.
We need a choice – terraces for those who want to stand and seats for those who want to sit.

I mentioned my book because I thought it might be of interest. Plenty of references to Torquay – I’ve used Torquay’s various visits to Barnet as examples of inconsistency and how much better it is to have choice to sit or stand (after several years of only seats, one year it went the other way and there was only a terrace, but now there’s choice again).

It would not be proportional to abandon a match due to standing, so it is never considered. It is not even proportional to close an area of a ground where persistent standing occurs hence despite threats to do so the safety authorities have never done this.

Yes clubs are told to have the ground regulation but the League & FA don’t make them to enforce it. If there is pressure to do so it comes from Safety Advisory Groups (usually FLA (SGSA) Inspector or local authority).

I can’t think who is more relevant to ask than those responsible for the Football Spectators Act – the government.

You provide further examples showing there is inconsistency as to whether fans are forced to sit at different grounds. So why if some clubs are willing to turn a blind eye do others make such a fuss?

It has been independently shown (Atkins Report Old Trafford) that the greatest risk is when a goal is scored, the next greatest when supporters leave, and the least is passive standing during play. So why try to stop it.

Of course the simple answer is to have terraces at every ground so everyone has the choice to stand (or to open them!).

If you are interested in the subject of standing can I recommend:

Stand Up Sit Down - A Choice to Watch Football

For a hundred years most supporters watched football from terraces, a culture that was an integral part of the game. By the 1980s though, neglected stadia, hooliganism and a lack of concern for safety meant that football had to change, and after 96 Liverpool fans tragically died at Hillsborough, Lord Taylor’s report recommended that our grounds should be all-seated. Many people however believe that something of the soul has been taken away from watching football and that standing is the natural way to feel part of the game.

In Stand Up Sit Down Peter Caton considers the arguments for and against the choice to stand to watch football. He visits the 23 English grounds that still have terraces, seeking the views of clubs and supporters, travels to Yorkshire to watch rugby league and to Germany to stand on a convertible terrace. With extensively researched background, the author analyses the disasters and hooliganism that led to all-seating, and the many changes that have occurred in the game. He considers various solutions proposed to allow standing, and highlights obstacles facing those backing the choice to stand. His own experiences of watching football at all levels add insight and interest. The book ends by asking its own questions and with a whiff of conspiracy.

325 Pages ISBN 9781780881775 Published by Matador (Troubador)

£6.99 through http://amzn.to/Kox5uH

To answer your points:

There is no way that the game would have been abandoned due to fans standing. Thousands stand in seats at many Premier League grounds and there has never even been a suggestion of abandoning a match.

I have stood at the back of the stand in many Torquay away games. Provided behaviour is reasonable, the home club uses its discretion not to force fans to sit, based on the minimal risk (if any) caused by them standing.

I am very familiar with the regulations. Stadia for English league games are nothing to do with UEFA or FIFA. The requirement to sit in one’s seat is simply a ground regulation. My point refers to the inconsistency between football and concerts – even in the same stadium

I have written to MPs, the Minister for Sport and the DCMS on many occasions. No one has ever been able to answer why the Taylor recommendation for all seating was applied only to football grounds, when he recommended that it should apply to all stadia designated under the safety of Sports Grounds Act.

Examples – Sunderland & Nottingham Forest have cut away allocations for a number of clubs citing persistent standing, but most other clubs (Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, West Ham for example) see similar standing but don’t cut allocations. And from experience watching Torquay – I have been threatened with ejection for standing at Barnet, Rushden & Southend, but stood without being questioned at Spurs, Northampton, Old Trafford and Wembley.

It is not false logic. If the argument is that supporters must sit for safety then it seems strange that some clubs play music encouraging fans to stand, celebrate and even dance.