Torquay United Fans Forum

brucie wrote: He simply has to get it right. There is no margin for error at all.

Which more or less agrees with the sentiments of what I have been saying, and completely different to the 'we're doomed' 'we're a shambles' 'we are definitely down' I was reading on the way home last night.

Come on mate, we're on the same team here, we both know the precariousness of our situation and time is running out. We both know that there is enough time to sort this mess out though and that we have done it before. Hell, we probably had the exact same conversation this time last season! I agree that there doesn't seem to be much logic behind what is happening at the moment, this is only Hargreaves' 5th game in football league management, we all knew the task he faced was monumental. He has still got time (not much room for manoeuvre) to get it right. Despite how soul destroying the last 2 matches have been, we are still not adrift, we are not even bottom.

I remember walking out of Sixfields last season convinced we were down, I had accepted our fate, I was completely dejected, I did not see any hope. Those are the times to hit the panic button, not now in mid February. We have been much closer to danger in our history than the situation we now find ourselves in.

I am naturally optimistic when it comes to TUFC, but I am not blinkered, I remain realistic too. Yes we are in deep s**t, yes we need to pick up results soon, no, we are not dead and buried. It is still in our own hands.

Dave, I don't wish to get into a protracted argument because this is based on opinions and I respect yours but I would blame Poke for the first goal on Tuesday. If he stays on his line then Pearce comes across and mops up or pushes Sinclair wide, because Poke ends up in no man's land Pearce has no option but to attempt to protect the goal-line. As a keeper you can not run out 10 yards and just stop, you either stay on your line and trust your defence, or you follow through with your convictions and get at the feet of the striker. If you don't do either and end up nowhere inbetween you have to accept your share of the blame.

Second one I think O'Connor is knocked off the ball too easily and its a neat finish from a tight angle. He was aiming to hit it between Poke's legs and that's where it went, sometimes Poke gets a boot on it and saves it, more often than not he doesn't, its basically pot luck.

I agree with that Dave, it wasn't so much a plea to put them in now, its more a weep that neither have been given a fair crack of the whip over the last couple of years and both will probably slither through our grasp. But as I say, Yeoman definitely has something, and to have not made the bench in a JPT game, been overlooked in favour or Sullivan and Chaney, and to have been sent out to (with the greatest of respect) Bideford and Dorchester is insulting and criminal in the least- especially if you have the cheek to say 'he's the best finisher at the club'

Their pitch looks good doesn't it!

I have to agree with the consensus here, both are wasted are Dorchester Town really. I've made my feeling known about Yeoman, his goal at Morecambe had everyone standing on their feet. Nathan I am a touch more ambivalent about and I've never liked him in a 2 man centre midfield, but since we're now playing with 3 I really wouldn't see why couldn't give him a game or 2 in the middle. On rare occasions he has shown that his left foot is a highly potent weapon. At the moment not one of our central midfielders has scored a goal all season. (Mansell, Lathrope, Harding, Mozika, McCourt, Labadie)

Guys, I am not saying we should all be delighted about losing 3-1 yesterday, of course I'm not. If you were all gutted listening to the radio, trust me it felt 10 times worse in the ground, a mixture of frustration and disbelief, and I had a 4 hour journey home to think about it. I am not going to attack anyone's opinions, deep down we all fear the worst and know what relegation will mean to our club, I just don't think the situation is so bad that we can write off our club yet.

It looks bleak, but then it looked bleak at the same sort of time in Buckle's first season back in the league, couldn't hit a thing for weeks and then suddenly it clicked. I do not expect such a gargantuan turnaround as that but the future is in our own hands. Yes we might be the unluckiest team in the history of football, yes we might make stupid rickets from time to time, but lets be realistic here: our new manager has been in the post for 5 games, in that time any momentum created has been enforcedly halted, had he wanted to get any continuity going after Wimbledon or Portsmouth, he couldn't. Our biggest enemy in the last few weeks has not been ourselves, it has been the weather.

Everyone is losing their heads when there is still a lot of football to be played. We were saying the exact same thing last season after we went 7 games in a row. We were even a goal and a man down after 5 minutes at Dagenham and the entire forum had wrote the epitaph for our gravestone. We stayed up. We have to keep the faith. Tuesday's atmosphere at Northampton was dire, I fully appreciate that it will die after being 2-0 after 16 minutes, but before the match, at kick-off, first 5 minutes, we should have carried on in the vein we supported superbly at Portsmouth. Drowned out the 69 away fans and created a carnival atmosphere for Greavsie's first game back. We were let down by the team, but we let them down too.

We have to keep the faith, there is no other option, far too many are being reactionary in the face of another defeat. We have played poorly in 75% of our matches this season, and still, we are not down and out, this league is terrible, there are teams there equally as bad if not worse than us. Our season will be defined by our upcoming home form, now is not the time for neighsayers, now is the time to get to Plainmoor and give some of those youngsters (some very promising and sadly all our finances can allow) as much encouragement as possible. Wilkinson has a bit of class about him, forget the miss, Goodwin is exciting, we know what Chappel can do, we were all over the moon when Labadie signed permanently.

The vast majority of us wanted a change of manager, we got what we wanted at a huge financial outlay to (some of) the board, to start moaning again after 5 minutes makes people out to be hypocrites. For some of us (i include myself here) we have made our beds and we must lie in them. We've only had 5 games of the new regime and that is just about all we can afford to give a new manager to work out how and who he wants to play. Don't get me wrong we have to start winning and fast, but, if we play with the tempo, creativity and innovation we showed in bucket-loads yesterday, and our goalkeeper doesn't inexplicably malfunction, we have a chance. As long as we have a chance, it is our duty to keep believing, keep supporting.

Relegation will mean the slow, painful demise of our great club. If we become defeatist now then we have had it, write off the last 14 games, shake hands with the fan next to you and book your holidays. If we forget the last two matches and remember how tall we felt after silencing 15000 fans at Pompey, we know we are capable of doing this. It won't be easy, it won't be pretty, but it can be done, we have it done it before.

Also just to add, Andy is alive and well and was in good humour today. His internet has been cut off at the moment though so his unique brand of posting is more sporadic.

Nice to bump into Bix, I hope you had a cracking day mate.

Big thanks to the Charlton, Wednesday, Blades fans who all swelled the away figures, joined in with the songs and I think had a good afternoon out to soothe the pain of their matches being off. They celebrated our goal more than we did!

There seems to me to be a bit of an over-reaction in the immediate aftermath of today's result. The damage today is purely psychological, not physical. No-one expected us to get anything from this fixture, so why all the fuss after the defeat?

I walked out of the ground and I was absolutely gutted/devastated by what I had just seen, but today we HAVE to take the positives, we simply can not afford to focus on the negatives, otherwise we may as well admit defeat and give up here and now.

After gifting Chesterfield an early chance to rattle our bar, the next 50 minutes could be described as some of the most even, honest league two football I have seen all season. A lot of the fans from various other teams who had joined us for the day struggled to see how we could be so lowly, and Chesterfield so high, based on today's match up.

Goodwin's goal was excellent, he knew exactly what he was going to do from the moment he set off, and he executed it superbly, it was a superb finish. Instead of sitting back, we went hunting for a second and were playing confidently, you simply can not legislate for what happened next. Michael Poke has probably kicked the ball more times than I've had hot dinners, the fact he chose today to forget how to do it properly is unfortunate timing to say the least. But you absolutely can not blame or accuse the rest of the team's performance dropping because of it, it did not.

When you get a bit of good fortune handed to you (one they did not necessarily deserve) it galvanises you, willed on by a stirred home crowd Chesterfield did crank up the pressure. Even when they took the lead our heads did not drop. We created two or three excellent opportunities. Goodwin's shot from distance cannons off the inside of the post, it is just bad luck. I thought Wilkinson looked very capable when he came on, I am not blaming him for his miss one bit, it was a much harder chance than what it has been made out to be. I would certainly start him in the next game.

Their third goal is simply irrelevant because we had pushed so far up looking for an equaliser. Today isn't a signifier that we are going down, it is the exact opposite. Take the score line out of the equation and we have matched the league leaders and given them a really good game. Had our goalkeeper not made a massive blunder I do not think we would have lost 3-1, I don't think we would have lost. We may even have hung on a'la Pompey. We may have caught them on the counter-attack. Poke's blunder was a one-off, he well never do that again. It completely changed the course of the game.

Wallowing in the fact that we lost the match is not going to help, especially when everyone expected us to lose anyway. It doesn't make any sense. Take heart from the fact we played well and created a lot more opportunities in this match than we have in most throughout the season. Know that we have some very capable young players in our squad and know that threatening not to bother again this season is futile, and that lending your support to two massive home games next week is far more important. Two bad results in those two and then we might start panicking.

Honestly, I don't know how it sounded on the radio, but we did really well today and its a big step to convincing me that we'll be ok this season. We most certainly did not bottle it today.

Following his performances at the back end of last season I was absolutely convinced that Ashley Yeoman should have been given the opportunity to lead the line. He showed in glimpses last season that he could cut it in the Football League. He was just never given the run of games needed. Those present at Morecambe will vouch that his goal showed confidence, ability and class in abundance. How many times have we heard 'best finisher at the club' - well he can't put the ball in the net from the stands can he?

I felt we should have backed him, given him the no.9 shirt and told him he was starting the first 5 games of the season. If he did well he would keep his place, not so well; well it's been 4 or 5 years. We are now in a situation where we will probably never know, and that is a shame. He certainly wouldn't have done any worse than some of those chosen ahead of him in the pecking order this season, and that too is a shame.

He is a quiet lad on the training field? So what? Not a reason not to pick him in my opinion. If you're the best finisher at the club, you should be on the pitch.

I met Martin on a number of occasions whilst he was our manager and you really would struggle to meet a nicer and more open man, extremely generous with his time.

I thought he did an excellent job in his time here with meagre resources and felt he was extremely poorly treated in the way his contract was terminated. I think a lot of criticism with his style of football was also unfair, he got the very best out of a limited squad, some of those wins will last long in the memory. I was one of those who wanted him to resume his post as manager following his return from illness.

His interview makes interesting reading, and he is quite right to point to his CV being impressive at this level. I sincerely hope he gets another managerial job, his passion and thirst for the game can not be questioned and it would make an excellent example to those struggling with mental issues themselves that, with a bit of help, things can turnaround .

I am delighted that Martin is in a better place in his life, and that he can talk freely about it. You never know how many people his words might touch and help/inspire in some way.

There is a still a stigma attached to depression that just shouldn't be so. The more people who can talk openly about their struggles and recuperation the better- it might enlighten the ignorant and maybe put an end to the stereotypical and cretinous insults and opinions voiced when the word 'depression' is disclosed.

Hopefully this will put a stop to some of the ill-informed and downright offensive rumours that have circulated, I never subscribed to them and I am glad I didn't.

I wish Martin all the very best, in his projects he is currently busy with, and hopefully back in management in the future.

Lastly, big thanks to a certain forum member for the lift tonight, I will make sure to take your side next time you get into arguments with other forum users!

Exceptionally disappointing tonight. Northampton were fired up, were strong and aggressive, and got stuck into us right from the first whistle. We in comparison were laboured, struggled to get going, and had no answer to their forceful bombardment. They had clearly been told to rough us up, and we couldn't deal with it. Its part and parcel of football and you would expect the same of any club desperate for the points. Wind the home team up, wind the fans up, see the game out. Referee was poor, but not the reason why we lost, an early booking would have put paid to the hours of timewasting, but he was far too weak to do that.

We just can't get any momentum going at all, all the positivity after the Wimbledon and Portsmouth matches (plenty to go round) dissipated because of the postponements, we have had too longer periods of inaction after good victories and any continuity has fallen by the wayside.

Full credit to the ground-staff for all their tireless endeavours, I would not want this to be construed as a sleight against them at all, but I am pretty sure the decision to let the match go ahead was touch and go. It looked impossible to get any sort of fluent, incisive football going not to mention the unpredictable bounce of the ball. With that in mind you have to be able to play direct football properly. We can't. Neither Stockley (or Hawley latterly) won a single header and our long balls forward ranged from aimless to useless. To compensate, this resulted in large periods of frustrating sideways and diagonal passing which didn't lead anywhere. We struggle to create chances, our best normally created by the poor technique and decision making of a very dodgy goalkeeper.

Somehow we managed to get a goal on half time, you would expect this to have a massive downer on them, a catalyst for us, there should have been the Alamo in the second half, sadly I agree with others there was no real sense of urgency. Chapell the one flickering bright spark.

So a terrible performance and somehow we have let a desperately poor Northampton side get 3 points nearer to us and safety. You can certainly see why both teams are currently 91 and 92 in the Football League.

Yet, tonight was not really a disaster, we haven't dropped any places and due to the tightness of the league we are still not cut adrift. We have to hope that there are no psychological effects from losing to the only team statistically worse than us, that we can pick ourselves up and move onto the next one, at least we will have a massive point to prove.

Such a shame that Hargreaves' homecoming was such a damp squib, the honeymoon is over and he has hard decisions to make and a lot of work to do. Our home form is pathetic. With a pitch that isn't going to improve discernibly for the remainder of the season we have to formulate a plan where somehow we can pick points up at Plainmoor on a regular basis. Failure to do that will, in my opinion, be what might ultimately cost us.

Plenty of games to go, plenty of twists and turns to come, lots of bad teams in the league. Not worried yet, we just need some consistency. Already gearing up for Chesterfield, we can get a result there, stranger things have happened.

It was in the club's best interests to get the match on, and when the referee failed to call it off at 9am it gave us a glimmer of hope that perhaps was not ever there.

There needs to be clear instructions and/ or protocol introduced by the Football League in order to stop these situations occurring. There has to be a universally accepted cut-off point whereby the match gets postponed, i would suggest 24 hours before kick off. This would stop these situations where fans and clubs are needlessly wasting time and money.

Its a massive shame, and everyone has lost out today. But it isn't the club's fault. The referee took an hour to make a decision at 9am, that should tell you he was never sure. It was always his call and his actions have made our club look amateurish.

In my opinion If the referee deems the match playable at 9am, then all the ensuing problems and ramifications should become his responsibility, not of the club. All we can do is continue to work on the pitch up until kick-off, as is our duty, but its the referee who makes the calls. Our ground-staff have worked tirelessly to get the pitch into a condition where, as of 9am, it would be ok for a match of football to take place at 3pm. The situation may change, that is out of the club's hands. Everyone thought the pitch would be underwater- calls of its demise started as early as last Saturday, the fact that there is a slight chance the match might be on should be cause of congratulating the club, not admonishing it.

The referee is the one with the final decision, I don't envy him at all. The pitch is playable at 9am, what would you do?

The club is in a no win situation really. I do feel sorry for those with a long journey to get to Plainmoor, the unease of not knowing and the likelihood of getting half way and finding the plug has been pulled must be awful. However, the fact that the pitch has not been written off after the original inspection suggests that there is a chance the match could be on. Given the financial implications at present we have to give it every chance. If we're inconveniencing a couple of hundred of our own fans then that, sadly, rightly or wrongly, is collateral damage compared to what we would lose by postponing the match to a Tuesday night.

Communication to the paying customer has to be of paramount importance, I agree, but at what point, given this ridiculous weather, do the decisions that the referee makes concerning the condition of the pitch (currently playable) become right or wrong?

If they called it off now and it was sunny all day; people would complain.
If they give it a chance and then call it off later; people will complain.
If it marginally passes an inspection, gets destroyed during the match and we don't get the result we wanted; people will complain.

For me, its easier not to complain and just trust that the referee and club are doing all they can to make the right decision given the criteria that they have to follow.

Rock and a hard place.

Second inspection at 12pm.

Not ideal for those with a longish journey, but as stated the club need to give this game every chance of going ahead.