A chance to buy Plainmoor?

Admiral · Post by **Admiral** » 27 Jan 2015, 20:24

Further scenarios to ponder it seems!

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/T ... story.html

Does anyone know how much the ground is worth (depending on the lease)? As the report suggests, it would be an attractive incentive for potential investors or buyers.

Thoughts?

Behind-the-Gulls · Post by **Behind-the-Gulls** » 28 Jan 2015, 09:15

As long as the covenants are water tight and Plainmoor will always have to remain a place for sport and recreation, I would welcome this and think this would be an attractive proposition for an investor and add significant value to any sale. Buying a club when you wouldn't own the ground has put off prospective buyers in the past-as Mike Bateson found out. Rumour that the Willows could be a potential site for a new ground,in the event of Plainmoor being sold/developed as a new "sporting hub" for Torbay.I also understand that the Council's asking price for Plainmoor is going to be very realistic and unlikely to put prospective buyers off. Very interesting development!

Post by **Dave** » 28 Jan 2015, 09:33

May not be the case B-T-G. It could be that, as long as the same sporting facility was provided elsewhere, Plainmoor could still be sold of for housing or other re-development.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Jan 2015, 11:17

I cant see the investment opportunity at all. if a covenant states that the sole use must be a sporting facility the land has NO development worth at all. So basically it has no worth.

The point forever makes in previous post is true, but I still don't see the worth. If you were to try and buy land elsewhere you would probably be required to have parking which would mean more land. The cost of developing a stadium anywhere near what Plainmoor is now would far exceed the value to a house builder for just the land at Plainmoor. Nope, this is a not a development prospect.

In fact I think its a dangerous prospect in the hands of some directors in the future. They could mortgage the stadium, which they would probably do and then the bank would in reality own it.

I don't think people have thought this through, things change, owners change and football is littered with chancers, we have experienced it.

It needs a benefactor, who would buy it and lease it back to the club at reduced rent to help the club. The benefactor would retain the land but would probably need another benefactor to sell it on too if they wanted to get rid, mmmmmmm the chances of that are slim and that's why its a poor investment!

Behind-the-Gulls · Post by **Behind-the-Gulls** » 28 Jan 2015, 11:43

TUST have applied to register the ground as an "asset of community value"-this means that under the Community Right to Bid legislation,a community group or organisation such as TUST could apply to buy Plainmoor and would have up to six months to prepare a bid.
There are grants and loans available to assist TUST or any other community organisation to do this. Understand the dangers you point out Neal,but still think the possible sale could be beneficial to the club and supporters,given the current situation we are in.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 28 Jan 2015, 12:49

Behind-the-Gulls wrote:TUST have applied to register the ground as an "asset of community value"-this means that under the Community Right to Bid legislation,a community group or organisation such as TUST could apply to buy Plainmoor and would have up to six months to prepare a bid.
There are grants and loans available to assist TUST or any other community organisation to do this. Understand the dangers you point out Neal,but still think the possible sale could be beneficial to the club and supporters,given the current situation we are in.

I think the TUST buying Plainmoor is a great idea, it can then be leased to the club for a nominal fee (like £1 a year). We just need more fans to join TUST!

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 28 Jan 2015, 13:47

Neal wrote:I cant see the investment opportunity at all. if a covenant states that the sole use must be a sporting facility the land has NO development worth at all. So basically it has no worth.

Not necessarily so. In fact it could be EXACTLY what is desperately needed by the neighbours!

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Jan 2015, 14:11

I agree the TUST buying plainmoor is a great idea. I would totally support this! As this is a group of fans with the best interests of the club at heart. And I would contribute to this as well. But a private individual I would NOT support!

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 28 Jan 2015, 14:12

CP Gull wrote: Not necessarily so. In fact it could be EXACTLY what is desperately needed by the neighbours!

Sorry I don't get your point?

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 28 Jan 2015, 14:34

Neal wrote: Sorry I don't get your point?

Sorry if was a little cryptic ..... by neighbours I mean Westlands School.

kevgull · Post by **kevgull** » 28 Jan 2015, 15:37

A little bit more information has started to leak out, perhaps the true picture has starting to develop. This would explain why the money men are in town.

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 29 Jan 2015, 08:28

Thinking about the figures for a while, and although I think the best option would be for the TUST to purchase the ground, I cannot see it happening.

I havnt a clue what the council would want for the ground. BUT I cannot see it being given away. But if its less than 500k I would be very surprised.

The problem is we have (optimistically) 3000 hardcore fans. If everyone of those put in £100 (which they wont) that would be 300k. Not enough.

I have asked myself what would I donate (and that's what it is basically because you will never get this money back again realistically). To save the club and put it on a good financial footing, mmmmm I might put in £500. Now I probably earn more than the average Torquay fan, so say optimistically 25% of the 3000 put this amount in. That's 375k Not enough!

Someone mentioned grants, mmmmm OK maybe there are, not convinced myself in these days of austerity, but they wont amount to much Im sure.

The recent crowdfunding appeal for Berry raised 4 of 5 hundred. We are not Exeter, AFC, FC Manchester. I wouldn't be surprised if you did a league table of all the league clubs and the conference (inc SOUTH and NORTH) on the average wage of the fans of each club, we would be near the bottom. You have to face reality, we as fans and the club are poor relations to the entire professional football community.

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 29 Jan 2015, 10:39

I would agree that it will be difficult to raise enough money to buy Plainmoor but I don't think it will cost as much as you suggest. Just recently it was suggested the whole club could be bought for half a million so I don' t see Plainmoor being more than half the clubs worth.

Gullscorer · Post by **Gullscorer** » 29 Jan 2015, 10:48

Neal, your last paragraph indicates why attendances at Plainmoor have always been poor, even at the best of times: low wages, seasonal employment, poverty and a large elderly population. This is also why your figure of 3000 hard-core fans is certainly optimistic. I'd put the number at closer to 1000, with another 4000 fans who, at a push, can just afford to attend half the games or fewer, plus many more who are able to visit Plainmoor only on rare occasions. It's little wonder that fund-raising efforts yield low results compared with those of other clubs. We in this area are indeed poor relations..

Neal · Post by **Neal** » 29 Jan 2015, 12:01

Gullscorer. I agree and elaborating a bit on your point, I wonder how many fans actually attend more than say 80% of home games. I guess we have some indication with regards season ticket holders.

Phill, yes but that was for the club NOT including the ground. I would think the Councils motivation is to get capital in for some project they need to do, hopefully affordable homes or some support for the elderly. And they would I guess (even though the covenant exists) base the value of the land on re-development. The Council get a rent from the club now, they would lose this if they sold it, so the capital they receive would need to compensate this by some degree.

We, well I don't know what figure they have in mind, but I cannot see it being below 500k, but I guess we will find out at some point. Anybody have any ideas / view on the value of plainmoor.

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