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Scott Brehaut wrote:I'm not, because I can't.
If I could, however, I wouldn't vote for UKIP because I'm not racist
((((Danglesthefishingrod smilie))))
UKIP is a comparatively young party, so it's bound to take them a little time to weed out all the nutters to the extent that the other main parties have done.ferrarilover wrote:It's not the policies, it's the members.
How many more 'Kippers are going to have to be outed as grotesque racists before you'll accept that?
Matt.
That's another one in the net.dannyrvtufc4life wrote:
I'm sorry but calling UKIP racist is total ignorance. In no way can you give me party policies that are racist.
ferrarilover wrote:It's not the policies, it's the members.
How many more 'Kippers are going to have to be outed as grotesque racists before you'll accept that?
Matt.
A good post Pea and some interesting points and we all have our own opinions on the best way forward for Britain but I feel that rather than looking at one set of people or another to blame, whether it be immigrants, redneck yorkshiremen, layabout chav families - I think many of our problems lie within the systems put in place by 'professionals' who don't really know how tough it is for people to scramble their way through life fighting pointless hurdles at each and every turn.Pea wrote:"Are you voting Ukip?" No.
"If not why not?" Aside from being exceptionally excited that this will be my first real chance to vote, I don't really understand why we're having this vote. It's not like the EU have scorned us, it's not like we're being over run by every man and his dog from every European country (or any other for that matter).
Nothing like stereotyping an entire demographic Pea, some may call THAT racism. =D
I saw that 'oop 'ere' on local telly and they were at Beverley races, Beverley a small, pretty little town at the edge of the Yorkshire Wolds and between Hull and the seaside. Great place. I had actually planned to go to that race meeting myself and if they had asked me about the immigration issue I would have probably given a more balanced response. A bit like many of the other racegoers no doubt had they been afforded the opportunity. It's just another case of getting a load of white northern men together and getting them to say something that could be construed as racist - which quite frankly could be anything these days.
What do we actually stand to gain from leaving the EU? A whole lot less than we stand to lose thats for sure. We are in a truly beautiful, enviable position right now. We have the support of the EU countries when we need it, but we still have our own currency etc.
We are a tiny little nation plonked way out of the way up north. We aren't the awe-inspiring, formidable British Nation that we once were, and that okay, but that means that we rely on others - imports, exports, and general livelihood.
The cost of living has been too expensive for sometime in this country - which is why all our educated doctors and nurses go elsewhere. If we start closing our boarders we will grind to a halt. Look at the NHS. for most, I bet the answer is some time ago. Not because of anything other than the aforementioned point that our young professionals get a better deal elsewhere, and with student debt being so high, you can't really afford to not seize the chances for better pay when you get them.
At my practice there is my doctor, a thoroughly professional and nice Indian chap whom I trust implicitly (I have to with all the health shit I've got!) and there are also two white women doctors. Personally I don't care what 'colour' my doctor is so long as he helps to get me better. And as for student debt being so high, that's total rubbish. Nobody is forcing anyone to go to University and rack up debt, you could start up your own business for example or find low paid menial employment. I do think the rise in course fees is a **** joke, especially myself being on the end of lecturers who don't really give a shit about their profession but as for all the other associated debt then one doesn't start paying it off until a certain income threshold is reached and even then it's only a splash in the ocean. So I really don't see the issue with this either. It's not as if you leave Uni, go on the dole and then the SLC are bashing your door down for £100 a month.
If boarders get closed, suddenly the NHS collapses, we have to send our doctors, nurses, and any other professional individual who isn't British, home. That isn't going to force our young professionals to return, so what do we then do?
I agree that immigrants aren't stealing our jobs but the rest of this is generalized rubbish Pea IMO. I know quite a few Polish people and a Lithuanian couple and there are 2 reasons why they are in a more favoured position to get on in Britain IMO based on anecdotal evidence and also from querying things such as housing policy with my local authority.
First of all any immigrant needs somewhere to live when they arrive in Britain so invariably they apply to the local authority for housing. Unlike years gone by when you could put your name down on the housing list and then wait in line until your turn came around, now it is a case of whoever is in the bracket of the highest priority. Therefore an immigrant family arriving here will automatically usurp many British nationals in the housing stakes largely because they do have families to bring with them and for example, a hard working British couples / families say on the minimum wage are being forced to shell out exorbitant private rental prices because they are already here and have to live somewhere. When they apply for local authority housing then they get told that because they already have a suitable home that they are not being considered for housing.
Many immigrant families are simply turning up in Britain, entering emergency housing and then getting set up with subsidised properties all because they are in the 'highest need' bracket. That is perfectly legal and they are fully entitled to do this. Meanwhile, low income British families faced with all the costs and traps of private renting will never be in a position to improve their lot and escape the trap by 'working in a petrol station' or whatever. Whilst their is a housing shortage and a steady stream of EU immigrants then they will ALWAYS be top of the housing list IMO simply because they often arrive with nothing but a family.
Another common scenario is that immigrants arrive here and manage to get low paid work but often there will be several workers sharing a house so that means they have somewhere affordable to live on low wages as the costs are shared and they can build then build their working skills and eventually progress to better paid jobs and obtain their own housing. If the minimum wage was actually reflective of a decent days work then maybe many British workers would be content with doing 'menial' work because they know they could live their lives once again instead of simply existing.
Another issue is the baffling intricacies of the benefits system and also employers taking the piss. I've known people in the past who have refused work because of the growing trend of zero hours contracts, temporary work and so on. Not because they are work shy but because they could do a months work at say Royal Mail as a temp, let the DSS know and then get told that the work has ended. Then what invariably happens (it has happened to me many years ago) is that once it comes to sorting out the benefits again one has to jump over the moon and back just to get the process started. Then there is a long delay and you get left up shit creek without a paddle with no cash until the clueless bureaucrats get round to sorting your claim out. Nobody is willing to do these types of work because of the frequency they get left without income by the numpties in the DSS.
I got a job at Morrisons about 15 years ago and continued claiming my JSA for the first month because I didn't get paid until the end of the month and thought I would be without money for a whole month. Obviously I needed travel to work costs etc. So when I got my first wage packet I informed the DSS that I had started work and wanted to sign off. They said that I had obtained money falsely for the month as I should have let them know as soon as I started work. I argued that I would have been left penniless for a whole month and they assured me that wouldn't have happened.
Anyway, the exact same scenario happened with another job I had and this time I told the DSS that I had started work and they stopped my benefits!!! I had no money for a month and had to borrow it from family. So you see, those who operate the system by and large are completely **** clueless and they cannot be trusted not to leave you in the shit. If you've got a family to feed then it's not worth the risk of taking low paid, non contract work.
more than happy to dole out money to 16 year old's, three months after they leave school with their G.C.S.Es (if they even have any) and let them live off the government for the rest of their lives, rather than expecting them to work.
Nick Farage and Co. would be better off addressing those sorts of issues in my opinion. Why should we constantly give money to those who wont help themselves? I for one have no problem with immigrants coming here and working hard. I do have problems with the idea that I will be paying for some people to never lift a finger their whole life (and don't be so naive to think this doesn't happen, I can think of a whole family who take money from the government when they don't "deserve" it, because to put it simply, there is NOTHING stopping them working).
We, as a country, need to take a long hard look at ourselves long before we start closing doors to others. In real terms, what is there to "hate" about Europe, what does it stop us from doing? How does it, really, on an every day life scale, impinge on our lives here in Blighty?
So, there you have it!
Bummer Mick.Gullscorer wrote:Hi Andy, I can't sleep either, though I'm bloody tired. I had a quick read through Pea's post and she appears (in my opinion) to hold a few misconceptions which I'll reply to sometime when my brain's working again..
I know zoonoses are an issue with animals but I've contracted less from my 3 cats and they do nothing but dribble into my mouth when I'm asleep!! 