austrianandygull wrote:I take on board what everyone says about Oastler, maybe i'm doing the boy a disservice. We all have differing opinions and to me he just didn't stand out as much as he has done in other games. I gave him MOTM away at Vale Park, he was immense that night. I'm happy to concede that maybe he played a lot better than i gave him credit for. I have to disagree with you Jeff on two points. Firstly Tai. He was making runs today AFTER the ball had been booted upfield to try and get there. It was effectively chasing the ball. He didn't make runs BEFORE the ball was played in order to pull off defenders or get in behind. Yes he does get isolated by the way we play but he should be more of a threat instead of just being merely an outlet. Secondly i strongly disagree that we battered them second half. Yes we had lots of possession and stroked the ball around comfortably at times as well as having a couple of decent chances. I don't think that constitutes a battering though. Hey,thats what football is all about Jeff, the debate and cheers for your input. And you shall go to Morecambe! I was actually asking myself the same question as i have an event to go to at 7 ish so i'll be cutting it fine. I'll probably go though, oh and did you by any chance today wear a black leathery type jacket, jeans and white trainers Jeff?
Fair discussion Andy.
I see what you say about Atieno, but I think thats more to do with the system we're playing. We were playing a lot of balls into the channels, but obviously playing one up top Taiwo was going to be more centrally located and thus was having to chase them. Whether our strategy was to do that or to play it directly into him centrally I don't know, but for me it worked out quite well. With Tai moving from left to right (or vice versa) to receive the ball, he shifted the whole of their backline in the same direction which then opened up spaces elsewhere. Eunan and Danny were both able to exploit these spaces and get some efforts away. It was a different interpretation of the one up front system we play with Howe, but it worked out o.k, we won and thats all that matters! I do agree with you that it would be good to see him running in behind defences, but I think its a combination of him being better suited to playing off a target man as part of a front two, him not making the runs and our midfield not looking to play those balls that conspire to make it not happen.
And fair enough, maybe battering was a bit strong but I thought we were as comfortable as I've seen us for a long time. Besides them hitting the post after the first goal, and a bit of pressure in the last 6 mins, we were never really threatened. And most of that late pressure was brought on by some ridiculously cheap free kicks awarded by the ref. On another day, we could have had another couple of goals easily (it was one of those days where things didn't really fall for Eunan).
Not sure about Morecambe, it is an absolute trek from Hertfordshire and I have an early start on the Sunday but I feel like there is unfinished business after them mugging us last season.
And yes, that does sound like a fair description of me. Back row of the terrace, just to the right of the goal? Were you up on the back row, by the top of the staircase?
brucie wrote:Do you really think Ling is going to change the system? 8 wins out of 11. 10 points out of the last 12, against the likes of Oxford and Swindon. Can't see Howe getting back in either.
Hey Jeff. At least i've got a bloody good memory despite my advancing years (35!) to have only seen you once last season at Macc and actually remembered what you looked like!! I think it was that we were both stood in the sasme spots last season and it stuck in my mind. I was stood on your right next to the guy with the coat/green hood and thick rimmed black specs. I had a blue bobble hat type thing on and black coat/jeans. Next year if we both go and find ourselves stood in the same spots again i might pluck up the courage to introduce myself with a quick hello - i'm not renowned for my sociability being a Yorkshireman! I know what you are saying about Morecambe, i was there last year and could have caused a riot with the antics of that Duffy t**t. Two pens in the last 5 minutes after Billy had mastefully guided us into the lead 10 minutes from time. Still i enjoyed it up there despite the weather and i'd like to go again. Cheers for the debate anyway, i think we'll have to disagree about Tai though mate. Oh and as for what Brucie posted about Howe not getting back into the side? All i can say to that is that Brucie really is a mentalist!
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
I actually think Brucie has a point there Andy, Rene Howe is an important player to the team as we all know, however Lingy has shown he is loyal to those who come in and play well, and will not break a winning team, Rene Howe will come back in there is no doubt however think it might be from the bench to start with.
Come on Forever. If Rene is fit he should start IMO. We don't have anybody else. We have got 10 points from 4 games. Tai got us a goal out of the blue v Swindon and did little else according to reports. He did nothing v Oxford, Plymouth or Macc today. Stevens has been unlucky admittedly but hasn't scored. Bodin scored but he isn't here anymore. Why would Martin leave out Rene who CAN get goals regularly and basically rely on midfielders / defenders to get us goals? Doesn't make sense to me. It's the equivalent of Man Utd leaving out Rooney because Macheda or somebody has come in and done ok, not scored many yet the team are on a roll. He is our best attacker FFS!
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
Not dissagreeing with you , however Rene Howe has not played any football since the 39th minute of our match on December the 17th, since then the team have picked 10 points from a possible 12.
Martin Ling may chose to see the bigger picture, Rene Howe is missing game time, and i am not sure how you can say Atieno did nothing against Oxford and Plymouth as you were not at those games, i do not think any one at the club or it's fan's could have asked Atieno to any more than he did in Rene absence.
If you look at how Lingy has gone about his buisness so far, i think Howe will be on the bench to start with.
Fair enough forever, i meant to say that the general consensus of opinion from other posters on here was that Tai was quite poor in those games i wasn't at. That's where my opinion is formed from. I take your point about Rene and the lack of fitness. It is possible that he may start on the bench v Morecambe because of this but to think that a fully fit Rene would not get back into the side like Brucie suggests would be madness.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
I think if you cite the example of when Bodin was available for the Oxford game (after Morris had come in for the Swindon match) and was started from the bench, I too think Atieno will keep the jersey at Morecambe.
That said, if things aren't rosy at half time and we are behind, I'd expect to see Rene very soon.
I thought it was a decent game as others have said the fact it was freezing cold probably made it less enjoyable!
First Half I thought we did ok played it about well and created a few chances. Second half we increased the pressure and got through in the end. I thought Oastler and Robertson were excellent at the back. Ellis and Nico were there usual solid selfs. As for Atieno I thought he did OK its clearly a role he's still getting used to and I think he's certainly getting better by the games as he adjusts to a position he's not entirely comfortable with.
As for Macclesfield I thought they were poor and probably had one eye on Tuesday night which worked in our favour. I believe were only the second team to win at Moss Rose this season and score more than once there (In League games), I think they can certainly play better than they did but as some could of predicted before the game saving themselfs a bit for Tuesday night.
Still I dont think the result would of been that different as we played well.
I have to disagree with people saying Tai was poor against Argyle (my only game of the season so far, what with living up here in Glasgow). I felt that despite not being hugely talented, he actually played well, especially in the second half, in holding up the play and bringing in Danny, Billy, Eunan and Manse. Sometimes he looks off the pace, but I think that's more to do with him being isolated as the lone man up front, especially so in the first half against Argyle, when their full backs were pinning back Billy and Danny. I think some credit is due to him, and huge credit must go to Ling for keeping players like Tai, who weren't getting games, motivated and ready to perform when they come back into the picture. Contrast that with Buckle, who would never trust the backups, instead getting loanees in every time (often effectively, it has to be said, but no doubt also a reflection on his man management abilities)
Overall I think that despite being a fairly limited player, he is getting more stick that deserved, and compared to some backup forwards we had in the Buckle era, he's not half bad. When Howe comes back from suspension, I would like to see him on the bench for one game, and playing any upcoming reserve games, in order to be ready to step back in as soon as possible, but that shouldn't count against the job Tai has done over the last 3 or 4 weeks...
Great result again yesterday. This team is certainly performing beyond expectations. Why is this?
Perhaps good player and squad management has something to do with it. Having a big squad can be a curse as well as a blessing - not only is it expensive, but keeping all the ambition and egos satisfied in a big squad can be impossible leading to player discontent. Having a small squad will be cheaper but constantly bringing in loan players can demotivate those already in the squad. ML has shown his belief in having a squad based on a good first 13 or 14, in other words focussing the available money on those most likely to play the vast majority of games, and then a number of cheaper back-up players.
So how will he deal with RH's return?
ML has shown loyalty to those who show their worth and this is why I think Howe will start on the bench against Morecambe. There would be nothing worse for squad morale than if players who have won 3 out of 4 games amassing 10 out of 12 points have to make way for someone who we all thought had thrown away our season getting stupidly sent off for the second time. There is also the small matter of match fitness.
So I agree with Brucie that TA will start in a 451 formation but expect RH to make his appearance at around 65-70 minutes.
They say a week is a long time in football, no greater applied to Torquay United’s trip up north to Moss Rose to play Macclesfield. Indeed, just seven days ago The Silkmen could count themselves mightily unlucky not to beat Premier League Bolton in the cup in front of a packed crowd of 6,000. Barely a quarter of that number braved the cold weather for this match which saw The Gulls continue their fine form and return to the Westcountry with 3 valuable league points.
Equally, The yellow army took nearly 2000 fans to their last away match, the euphoric 2-1 victory over arch rivals Plymouth, today 150 hardy souls made the journey up north. The atmosphere at Home Park was lauded as one of the best ever, a cacophony of Drums, Bells. Chanting and clapping, today, sadly, was the antithesis: a subdued ambience amongst the dwindled numbers, perhaps both sets of supporters still basking in the glory of last week’s memories.
Torquay lined up in their now tried and tested flexible 4-3-3 formation, the only change being Ian Morris coming in for the recently departed Billy Bodin, Brian Saah and Lloyd Macklin returning to the squad after Injury and Loan spell respectively. Macclesfield lined up 4-4-2 as the low sun shone right into the away fan’s eyes, making for an easy decision at the toss. Lee Mansell duly won the toss and the Gulls were to shoot out of the sun, playing towards their own fans in the first half.
The match took a long time to get going, neither team able to find much in way of cohesion or rhythm. The first 20 minutes was a scrappy affair, the sun, the atmosphere and the pitch all contributing factors to the lack of goalmouth action. The danger for much of the game came from set-pieces, both teams looking likely to nab a goal from continual excellent delivery. On a couple of occasions the ball bounced around the Macclesfield box, the ball just failing to drop nicely for a clean strike at goal, despite the Yellow Army’s best attempts to will the ball into the net.
Torquay ended the first half with a flurry of shots at goal, Danny Stevens cut inside and forced a fine parry from Veiga. The captain saw an angled volley fly just over the bar from 20 yards and then dragged another shot just wide, and another couple of cross come shots flashed across the goalmouth. This was a bit of promise to take into the second half as the referee blew his whistle for 0-0 at half time which saw an exodus of fans from the terraces in search of a hot pie and a cuppa.
The sun had finally gone down behind the opposite stand as the second half started, giving the Gulls fans a perfect view of proceedings as we attacked the far end. Torquay continued in the same vein as they ended the first : on the front foot and passing with a purpose. Eunan O’Kane slowly finding his range in the centre, linking up nicely with Oastler and Nicholson who throughout the game supplied positive and brave support to Stevens and Morris on the wings.
Torquay deservedly took the lead in the 52nd minute, Ian Morris popping up in the 6 yard box to head home after a goalmouth scramble following another excellent set piece. It was Morris’ first goal for the club since signing in the summer, hampered by injury and pushed down the pecking order by the form of others, we have yet to see the best of a player who arrived with a decent reputation. Hopefully the crucial first goal in a battling away win will give him the confidence to show the sort of form which kept him in a promotion winning team for the majority of last season.
The goal shook Macclesfield into life, they ditched trying to play the ball through the centre and instead reverted to playing it long and direct. For 10 minutes Torquay were under the cosh, on a number of occasions Robertson and Ellis had to be resolute in winning their headers and it was all hands to the pump to deny Macclesfield the chance to cross. On one occasion a free header from the ever dangerous Daniel looped over Bobby Olejnik, hit the inside of the post and back into the grateful arms of the Keeper who must have felt he had been beaten. It was a massive let off for The Gulls, but it had a galvanising effect, believing the best form of defence to be attack we went in search of a second goal.
It duly came in the 74th minute. Following another goal mouth scramble, popular centre-back Mark Ellis acrobatically turned the ball home for his first goal of the season, a two goal cushion was richly deserved and allowed a bit of breathing space should the Macclesfield Cavalry appear. As has so often been the case this season though, once in the ascendancy, Torquay look like they could score 3 or 4 in a short space of time. You can see the Confidence course through the team with a 2-0 lead behind them, playing with an attacking ingenuity and intensity few can match, picking off passes at will. O’Kane was unlucky not to finish a neat move, Joe Oastler seeing his fierce drive expertly saved by Veiga, and Danny Stevens angling a superb shot against the post; it looked to be a matter of time before TUFC added to their tally.
However, in time honoured Torquay United tradition, Macclesfield pulled a goal back, and it was through a moment of magic. An excellent cross from the right was met by a thumping header on the run from 15 yards; it was unstoppable and set up a grandstand finish. The last 10 minutes was a bit of a rearguard action: following the blue-print laid at Home Park 12 days ago. The back four showed excellent concentration to combat the aerial threat, with the indefatiguable partnership of Lathrope and Mansell camped in front of the defence to preserve our lead. A flurry of corners provided a couple of late scares, Chris Robertson magnificently cleared from under his own crossbar, Atieno responsibly won a couple of key headers and Mark Ellis also made a memorable interception – it is immensely pleasing to see the entire team give their all for each other, for the manager, for the fans, for the club.
The final whistle brought an end to an engaging and hard fought contest. 2-1 was probably a fair score between two diligent and fairly evenly matched teams. The difference being the confidence Torquay play with when in the lead, it won’t be long before one team is on the receiving end of a drubbing. When we find our rhythm we are as dangerous on the counter attack as anyone in the league. I would love to see us produce that for larger periods of a match.
These 3 valuable points move us up to 8th place, just outside the playoffs with a game in hand; an unthinkable position given the hammerings handed out to us by Southend and Gillingham in October. This is testament to a manager with faith and trust in his hardworking troops, to his hardworking troops for performing to their absolute maximum in every game recently, and to the club for creating a feel good factor atmosphere which sees everyone involved working towards the same goal.
Rene Howe returns to the squad for next week’s even longer journey to Morecambe, this sees us at full strength. We have progressed a long way since the start of the season, I get the feeling there is more to come. This is a club on the up at the moment, and deserves to be supported accordingly. We can all be proud of the continued excellent form on show and if the fans continue to get behind the club in loud voice and large number we could very well be in for an exciting end of the season.
It is nonsense to suggest that Atieno had a poor game against Plymouth. He missed a couple of chances in the first half but looked lively up front by himself. You can't really underestimate that win either - we made Plymouth look crap for most of that game but they havn't been losing many lately have they?
I can't see Ling leaving Atieno out next week - Howe hasn't played a game for a few weeks and he is hardly the fittest. Thwe "no brainer" is that Atuien will start next wek.
