Hargreaves, Wes, 1998 parallels and season-tickets

[hector]

In 1998 after Kevin Hodges built a team on the cheap during Bateson's self-imposed exile with Puppet Benney as chairman, Wes Saunders led the cheerleading of the Torquay fans alongside Helen Chamberlain prior to kick-off at Wembley. It wasn't the most dignified way for a former promotion-winning captain to behave and never in my wildest dreams on that terrace did I imagine I was watching our next manager. A man who at the time was working in a clothes factory and play football for a pub team.

There was absolutely no substance to any argument that he was the right man to take over from Hodges and Steve McCall. Mervyn Benney said something like he was impressed with Saunders because he had stayed in football or something stupid...he was playing for a pub team. Micky Adams had applied for the job after guiding Fulahm to promotion but no...Bateson and his puppet went with Saunders.

A cheap option but one that maybe they felt that the fans would love because they had adored Wes as a player. But simply being popular does not make someone potentially a good manager. Saunders found this out to his cost. Shawn of the 1998 talisman, Rodney jack, his reputation tarnished and now remembered more for his terrible spell as manager rather than his time as a player.

The parallels with 1998 to now are uncanny. We lose a play-off final and our management team saunter off to localish, bigger rivals in the same division.

Furthermore, a former promotion-winning captain of ours is doing the rounds before the final. Media stuff for sky...larking around with the Torquay players (certainly more one of the lads than someone who would have the authority as manager). The team look to be bereft of its two best players in Branston and Zebroski.

And this former captain who does a bit of coaching for some U16s is seriously being touted as our next manager in the way Wes was by some in 1998.

Is it simply because he is popular and maybe a bit more intelligent than the average footballer.

He has absolutely no experience and whilst I would love Hargreaves to do a Lee Hodges and manage somewhere and come back and do the job, now is not the time.

Already, I fear a season like we had in 1999 - the one that followed that play-off defeat - when right until the end of the season we were still in danger of being relegated to the conference. In 1999 we had a rookie manager, not up to the job. Hargreaves as manager will just confirm that.

Are people seriously campaigning for a repeat fo those Wes years? Do people ever learn from history?

I have been a season-ticket holder these last few years. I usually end up having to miss a few games so often just about break even on the season ticket. I was unsure whether I would get one next year because of the cost and living away from Torquay makes the eveing games tricky at times.

What I feel right now is that I do not want to commit myself to a season-ticket if they end up making a terrible appointment...if they do something Batesonesque. The early bird offer finishes on the 10th and if they have not appointed a manager by then, then I will not get one and then it means the games I miss they will not get my money at least. If they appoint poorly before the 10th, then again I will not waste my money.

There will be some who will say a loyal fan should get one regardless but with other commitments in life, I feel I need to justify such an outlay and to me, if the club appoint a poor manager then it reduces that justification.

Appointing the likes of Hargreaves would not be appropriate and whilst I like the bloke I would want him to do well, it is too much of a gamble. He is too pally with the players and do we know if he even wants the job?

[royalgull]

Decent post one which i agree with. I'd love to see Hargreaves return as the number 2 to someone with a bit of managerial experience. People will point to Eddie Howe, but for every Eddie Howe there's a Chris Casper, Tony Cottee or Chris Brass. I think Hargreaves is made of the right stuff (unlike Branno) to be a manager one day. He speaks well, he's a thoughtful bloke, he knows all about the hard knocks in football and he'll know about 1000 people in the game from having more clubs than Tiger Woods. But now isn't the right time.

Sort of following on from this, a browse of the forum and there's bitterness, there's anger, jealousy, sourness nobody else remotely excited like me? Just maybe a freshness might be the thing to kick us on next year. People get stale and the sound of the same voice sometimes has a negative effect. Maybe last year was as good as it possibly could have got under Buckle? Maybe not and we fail, who knows but this is the joy and uncertainty of pre season. Gonna have a new manager that immiediately is going to want to be here, won't be looking for the next move (not right away anyway) and who knows maybe will bring in some more exciting players. We've lost better players than Zebroski and coped before, why not now?

[Fonda]

I agree with the OP, but the board won't please everybody. They won't purposefully recruit a 'bad manager', but will naturally upset some with their choice. If they choose Hargreaves, they lose your season ticket money. If they give the job to Trollope, they might lose someone else's. We all have our favourites, but just have to trust the board will make the right decision - based on budget and potential success.

[Dave]

Whislt I do not dissargee with your sentiment,i do think Chris Hargeaves would be a better apointment then some seem to think,for a start Chris Hargreaves is not just coaching some under-16's,he is coaching Exeter City under16's you are talking about players who have risen to the very top of there youth academy and are playing for youth professional contracts with them,normaly a coaching job resevered for coach's with atleast a uefa "B" badge .

Chris hargreaves was through out his playing career a model professional player and i have no doubt he will be the same as a manager ,i can not see him for one minute picking his team for saturday on who does and does not turn up for the Wednesday night drinking club.

Chris Hargreaves has a playing career that has seen him play for Grimsby,Hull ,northampton,Brentford,Oxford,
W.B.A ,Plymouth aswell as Torquay,he would have built up quite a worthwhile network of contacts aswell more than a few idea's on how to,and not to manage a football team.

Whilst i am not in the know,i am being led to believe the club has received a very good and surpising range of applicant's for the job,so i do not think Greavsie will get the job anyway,however still will not cry if he does.

[tommyg]

Interesting blog update from Greavsie.

Posted last night:

So much happened and so little said!

Obviously there is a lot going on at the moment but firstly I have to say how gutted I was for the T.U.F.C boys, losing in a final is no fun at all.
At this stage it has to be no comment about any other football business.

Moving on quickly, the shop is at full belt, the family are at full belt, the weather is superb, and the TT is on..........so off I go.

CH

[happytorq]

[quote="royalgull"]
Sort of following on from this, a browse of the forum and there's bitterness, there's anger, jealousy, sourness nobody else remotely excited like me? /quote]

I think a lot of people - myself included - feel that we're letting a fantastic opportunity slip away. We really very close to a promotion-winning team last season, and automatic promotion wasn't out of the question until the last 4 or 5 games of the season. With the delay in appointing a new manager, it just appears that the club don't really have a handle on how to keep the players we want to keep.

The haste in which Buckle left makes you think that board at least had an idea that he was going, and if that's the case, it's not very good no new manager is going to be in place until next week at the earliest. I think if we'd got a manager in early, signed a couple of players to proper contracts and then started looking for new players, we'd be more optimistic. At the moment the feeling is one of rampant stagnancy.