Clark Osborne/Jim Parker Interview

[culmstockgull]

Pity you don't listen to your own advice.

People in weak positions always use personal attacks,

[gullsgullsgulls]

Not everything is as it always seems. If you look deeper into this story it appears as much to do with Reading Council's incompetence as to 'Uncle Clarke's' efforts.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local ... ce-4202306

I reiterate my previous post Torbay Council "must be prepared to make a long-term commitment and be prepared to risk the councils own capital" before granting permission on any proposal. If the proposal is that good the council should have nothing to worry about.

But that is his MO. There is always someone else to blame.

At the end of the day, they demolished the stadium based on his promises and his business plan.

Regardless of whose fault it was, there were risks in his business plan that came to bear and the new stadium was never built.

It is not the councils job to risk taxpayers money on these follies regardless of the shininess of the proposal deck.

[SuperNickyWroe]

People in weak positions always use personal attacks,

Get a grip FFS.
You made statements that are unfounded.

[Chelston TUFC]

Most things that Torbay Council touch turn to sh*t, most things that CO seems to touch turn to sh*t. It's very hard to think that this is going to end well. A very sorry saga.

[The Great Muta!]

I've seen this movie before, it'll all end in tears, CO riding in on horseback likes he's our White Knight, promising a new Stadium, 5 yr plans, best manager in the league etc etc, how in the blue hell he ever got his mitts on OUR club I just do not know, Chelston TUFC is spot on, our council combined with CO, what a partnership, it's a marriage made in hell, sadly I can see the writing on the wall, and it doesn't look good.....

[MellowYellow]

It is not the councils job to risk taxpayers money on these follies...

But happy to have taxpayers money tied up in the freehold of Plainmoor?

[Rjc70]

But that is his MO. There is always someone else to blame.

At the end of the day, they demolished the stadium based on his promises and his business plan.

Regardless of whose fault it was, there were risks in his business plan that came to bear and the new stadium was never built.

It is not the councils job to risk taxpayers money on these follies regardless of the shininess of the proposal deck.

Those articles in Reading you posted (Mellow) were in 2012 and 2013. The stadium was demolished in 2008 AFTER his company had obtained outline planning permission for an alternative. Although in 2012 and 2013 Swindon were of course hearing all about their proposed new stadium.

Fast forward to 2023/4 similar articles appearing in Swindon regarding reviving the sport in the town after eviction and housing now up to and in the old car park at the Abbey Stadium and for as far as the eye can see. Onto the next project it is. And we are it.

I don’t know if anyone else noticed when Clarke Osborne was asked by Dominic Mee at that online fans forum about Swindon, that Clarke Osborne referred to it as a ‘success’. I’m guessing those who used to pay through those gates a short while before don’t regard the loss of their sport and lots of new housing in the same terms. Assume he was defining success rather differently to those fans.

But yes, football is different. Here’s what Clarke Osborne is reported to have said in 2018 about Bristol Rovers. Article Non League Paper July 2018 - Robertson (author) asked him how he felt about being responsible for his boyhood club being evicted from their Eastville Stadium (which he sold to become an IKEA store) Osborne said, “Unemotional… In football there’s a lot of emotion, ego and personalities that stretch over what I would call the basic business decisions you would make.“

Like Dave, I’ve tried to find an example of and have posed the question elsewhere of whether anyone has any knowledge of a Clarke Osborne proposed new stadium being built from scratch. I can’t find one. Just lots of proposed ones. I’ve also seen articles similar to what you say where others are ultimately blamed for it not happening. Be it bad luck, bad judgement, or something else, his proposed stadia don’t seem to ever get built. Other things do as part of the proposal/enabling development to get them done. But not the stadiums themselves. And bad news for current and potential future supporters often tends to follow.

I’m currently struggling to see any reason why we will be any different to all of those other places and why any other supporter thinks we might be.

[MellowYellow]

I do fully understand supporters reservations I was one of the first to 'hit the roof' when the proposal of a new stadium was initially announced. Nevertheless, whichever way the wind blows the risk of losing our football club through financial turmoil exists be it through stagnation or development. One has to sit on one side of the fence so I've decided to be positive rather than negative about the future development of the club. We can't remain in the 'Ark' for ever, so I await with anticipation of what the 'Promised Land' is to look like. If upon the release of the proposaI I smell a rat I will be as vocal as anyone.

'Uncle Clarke' was right in one thing ' In football there’s a lot of emotion, ego and personalities'.

[WainwrightGull]

Those articles in Reading you posted (Mellow) were in 2012 and 2013. The stadium was demolished in 2008 AFTER his company had obtained outline planning permission for an alternative. Although in 2012 and 2013 Swindon were of course hearing all about their proposed new stadium.

Fast forward to 2023/4 similar articles appearing in Swindon regarding reviving the sport in the town after eviction and housing now up to and in the old car park at the Abbey Stadium and for as far as the eye can see. Onto the next project it is. And we are it.

I don’t know if anyone else noticed when Clarke Osborne was asked by Dominic Mee at that online fans forum about Swindon, that Clarke Osborne referred to it as a ‘success’. I’m guessing those who used to pay through those gates a short while before don’t regard the loss of their sport and lots of new housing in the same terms. Assume he was defining success rather differently to those fans.

But yes, football is different. Here’s what Clarke Osborne is reported to have said in 2018 about Bristol Rovers. Article Non League Paper July 2018 - Robertson (author) asked him how he felt about being responsible for his boyhood club being evicted from their Eastville Stadium (which he sold to become an IKEA store) Osborne said, “Unemotional… In football there’s a lot of emotion, ego and personalities that stretch over what I would call the basic business decisions you would make.“

Like Dave, I’ve tried to find an example of and have posed the question elsewhere of whether anyone has any knowledge of a Clarke Osborne proposed new stadium being built from scratch. I can’t find one. Just lots of proposed ones. I’ve also seen articles similar to what you say where others are ultimately blamed for it not happening. Be it bad luck, bad judgement, or something else, his proposed stadia don’t seem to ever get built. Other things do as part of the proposal/enabling development to get them done. But not the stadiums themselves. And bad news for current and potential future supporters often tends to follow.

I’m currently struggling to see any reason why we will be any different to all of those other places and why any other supporter thinks we might be.

Spot on Rjc70 he has never seen through a new stadium and he never will it’s all BS and we know it.

[gullsgullsgulls]

But happy to have taxpayers money tied up in the freehold of Plainmoor?

Of course. Ignoring the fact that it is a community asset which provides jobs and entertainment to the local community, it is also low risk and for as long as they own the freehold they have an asset as colateral. Worst case they can borrow against it, sell it or use the land in the future.

If the new project goes belly up they will have lost Plainmoor forever, have invested the proceeds in a white elephant, and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

[Dave]

Someone help me out here. Just how much in terms of local council taxpayers money is tied up in the freehold of Plainmoor ? If I understand things correctly, Torbay council own the land, the football club owns the buildings I.E the Stands etc, and the running costs/grounds maintenance is down to the club, so it's purely the value of the land, I'd hate to even hazard a guess how much the land is truly worth, can't imagine it would make much if a difference to the councils budget.

Torbay council has switched from Tory to Lib Dem and recently back to Tory control, the council has reiterated time and time again over this period the freehold of Plainmoor is not on the market. Don't how many of you are aware of TorVista homes Ltd, this is a company set up by and 100% owned by Torbay Council for the provision of socially affordable housing, I am NOT suggesting homes will ever be built on Plainmoor, but if this point is ever reached at any point in the future, my guess would be, the Council would perhaps want to use the land for themselves.

From a point very much of me looking from the outside in, all I/we can see has happened here is an informal chat between the club and the Council, with great fanfare made in the local media about finally, a new stadium is very much in the pipeline. I agree with Southampton Gull here, smoke and mirrors, I can't see a new stadium ever being built.

[RodneyJacksRightFoot]

Someone help me out here. Just how much in terms of local council taxpayers money is tied up in the freehold of Plainmoor ? If I understand things correctly, Torbay council own the land, the football club owns the buildings I.E the Stands etc, and the running costs/grounds maintenance is down to the club, so it's purely the value of the land, I'd hate to even hazard a guess how much the land is truly worth, can't imagine it would make much if a difference to the councils budget.

Torbay council has switched from Tory to Lib Dem and recently back to Tory control, the council has reiterated time and time again over this period the freehold of Plainmoor is not on the market. Don't how many of you are aware of TorVista homes Ltd, this is a company set up by and 100% owned by Torbay Council for the provision of socially affordable housing, I am NOT suggesting homes will ever be built on Plainmoor, but if this point is ever reached at any point in the future, my guess would be, the Council would perhaps want to use the land for themselves.

From a point very much of me looking from the outside in, all I/we can see has happened here is an informal chat between the club and the Council, with great fanfare made in the local media about finally, a new stadium is very much in the pipeline. I agree with Southampton Gull here, smoke and mirrors, I can't see a new stadium ever being built.

Spot on with TorVista, although plans for further housing (large village top of Shiphay etc.) haven't progressed in 6 years despite a large developer involved

The ball is in CO's court to provide a solid plan to Council & fans, but i'd say there are a few strings missing from his raquet.

[torregull]

TorVista is being wound up and its functions taken on directly by Torbay Council.

[SuperNickyWroe]

I do fully understand supporters reservations I was one of the first to 'hit the roof' when the proposal of a new stadium was initially announced. Nevertheless, whichever way the wind blows the risk of losing our football club through financial turmoil exists be it through stagnation or development. One has to sit on one side of the fence so I've decided to be positive rather than negative about the future development of the club. We can't remain in the 'Ark' for ever, so I await with anticipation of what the 'Promised Land' is to look like. If upon the release of the proposaI I smell a rat I will be as vocal as anyone.

'Uncle Clarke' was right in one thing ' In football there’s a lot of emotion, ego and personalities'.

Thats the problem right there.
That word "proposal."
Which, when translated into Osborne speak means "No intention of ever being built."

[Cheddargull]

Kevin Foster, the local MP, says he talked to the council leadership. All the council did was give the club a polite hearing and reiterated that Plainmoor is NOT for sale, they also queried how the club intended to finance any development.
In other words nothing is going to happen so stop worrying.