Stadium fan ownership

[Cheddargull]

Survival of a club by community ownership may be the last throw of the dice for many but I stlll stand by my original thought that I have yet to see in the UK a successful in purely footballing terms community owner venture.

To Exeter City you can add AFC Wimbledon and Wycombe Wanderers, Chesterfield are also fan owned.

[Vick]

Wycombe Wanderers are only part owned by the fans. The fans own 10% and the remaining 90% is owned by Feliciana EFL Ltd, a company that is owned by Rob Couhig. Rob Couhig is the American businessman who tried to buy Yeovil in 2019. When that fell through, he tried his luck at Wycombe and succeeded.
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[TorquayUntied]

"falling quicker in the league than we are"?? They're 3 divisions above us, having survived in the divsion last season, pretty comfortably. Yes, they're on a poor run right now, but I still expect them to stay in League 1 - which is, let's not forget, populated by sides with far bigger budgets. As for saying "yet to see in the UK a successful in purely footballing terms community owner[sic] venture.", then what are Exeter? They were in the Conference when the Trust took over. Yes, they got pretty fortunate with the Man Utd cup draw, but still - since the trust took over they've been promoted twice and have turned their academy into the engine for the club. That seems incredibly successful to me.

Long-term I think you'll see a few more clubs going down the fan-owned route like Exeter. It's never likely to have them spending big but if you can run the club well it's a very decent blueprint, and of course you're not then reliant on some munificent chairman who's prepared to spunk a million quid a year. As for TUST - I'm a member, although I'm not involved day-to-day; but I think they are the best hope we have in the event that the current owner decides to call it a day. I would also like to see more of an plan from them to actually take over, rather than hold the fort while a new owner is found; I have wonder for some time how feasible it would be to find a thousand fans to support the trust with an average of £20 a month; that would then give the trust close to a quarter mill a year to 'run' the club, which would be a thoroughly decent start.

Please not this old thing again.


When Osborne took over he invited the TUST for a meeting.

Couldn't even sustain the cost to Run the mower and ground staff for a month.

End of simple as.

250,000 a year is not going to run a club at this level full time.

[Dave]

The lack of response to this thread coupled with an indication some of our fans only concern seems to be negative internet posting has me in despair. What's been said in the past and by whom doesn't concern me, its the now and the future that does.

If you didn't know it, or like me hoped things might turn out differently, and if promotion to League had happen CO may have found a buyer and walked away who knows, but that didn't happen, they're after the land

CO who sold out his own boyhood club Bristol Rovers which now has an Ikea on their once proud stadium admitting there was no room for emotion in football , can and will do almost anything here at TUFC, recently cornered Edwards admitted they were still looking for a potential site, the problem comes when they come to the conclusion, there is no land, and they're left funding a football club they don't want, with no return on the investment, that's why they'll continue to fund the club at it's current level.

Once that conclusion is reached they'll come after Plainmoor, covenant, ACV , and a lack of political will to sell Plainmoor affords it only minimum protection, all can be got around. Fan/Trust/Community ownership of Plainmoor is very good idea, if CO gets his hands on it, having a full time club will be the least of all worries, TUFC will cease to exist never to return.

The running costs of the ground can be kept down, I am not to proud to clean and pick up paint brush, sure others would also, pretty sure tradesman amongst our fan base would give some time also. Not an expert by any means on this, could charitable status be gained ?

Of course the trust/fans/community couldn't fund the club at it's current level, not begin with anyway, so it would be a part-time, phoenix club starting again , it's best hope may only be the NLS, with the odd dip into the NLP, but we'd have a clean football club owned by us, that we could be proud of, sure the attendances would be higher, after all we'd own it.

Got to be better than the shit show we have now, and some pipe dream, that CO will some day fund the club back it's former glory.

[Mr Tea808]

Brilliant, BRILLIANT post Dave , I really do echo your sentiments and fears, it's a major worry, I don't trust CO as far as I could launch him, his track record with previous ventures of his should send alarm bells ringing very loudly, he wants the land, no doubt about that, one thing and one thing only, the worry is for me, what is the solution?, I really do not know..

[culmstockgull]

Dave , good posting, not one of us knows what Osborne's plans are going forward especially as the ground freehold remains beyond him, what we do know is the council, like many are in dire financial straits but continue to resist any overtures on the freehold, besides the anger of such a sale would make them all unelectable for years, the covenant ACV could be overturned especially so with sustained pressure from highly paid solicitors.
As each season passes so does his financial commitment to the club, there will come a time if it has not already occured when his outlay outweighs any benefit from freehold and housing on plainmoor or even the more likely the warberry playing fields.
We still continue even at our lowly level to draw crowds that exceed several league clubs and many national leaue clubs even when we charge more to get in than most NL clubs so the potential for financial growth still exits.
We have a bloated back room structure, a serial failing youth system that is incapable of producing a first team player, a MD who is probably on a six figure salary ,all of these take money away from the core function and to my mind no way to run a club.

[happytorq]

Please not this old thing again.


When Osborne took over he invited the TUST for a meeting.

Couldn't even sustain the cost to Run the mower and ground staff for a month.

End of simple as.

250,000 a year is not going to run a club at this level full time.

Of course not. Never said it would. But having an additional £250k as "income" is a pretty decent start, no?

There is so much more the club could be doing go engage the community and get more people through the gates, interested in the club, and therefore spending money.

And no, back then, the trust didn't have any money that wasn't its purpose. It arguably still isn't.

The fact that Osborne spoke to the trust and only appeared to have been interested as far as they would give money suggests that's all he cares about. If he'd bothered to be open as he said he would, the trust (and, by extension, the rest of the fanbase) would be able to work with him, which has its own value, monetarily or otherwise.

[Admiral]

The disconnection between the club and supporters is arguably the worst it’s ever been

[midtable]

The club simply doesn't generate much money to cover its costs.
It is all very well hoping that tradesmen would volunteer to help out but there is no evidence of that and it is very unlikely. Fans moan if a pint is a few pence more in Boots or tickets prices a few pounds higher each season so why should a skilled tradesman not be paid?
As for chat of a bloated backroom staff well that is subsidised by the owners not the fans.

Torquay has never had part-time players and if they did the slide down the table would be worse. Some on here with hazy memories remember players with jobs but that was in the old days when they took summer jobs in between contracts.

Rightly or wrongly nothing is going to change but at least we are still going compared to other clubs in even dire straits.
The reason everyone is angry is that because we are not top of the league.
Tales of demonstration etc is designed for the benefit of no one. What good can come of it?

[Admiral]

The club simply doesn't generate much money to cover its costs.
It is all very well hoping that tradesmen would volunteer to help out but there is no evidence of that and it is very unlikely. Fans moan if a pint is a few pence more in Boots or tickets prices a few pounds higher each season so why should a skilled tradesman not be paid?
As for chat of a bloated backroom staff well that is subsidised by the owners not the fans.

Torquay has never had part-time players and if they did the slide down the table would be worse. Some on here with hazy memories remember players with jobs but that was in the old days when they took summer jobs in between contracts.

Rightly or wrongly nothing is going to change but at least we are still going compared to other clubs in even dire straits.
The reason everyone is angry is that because we are not top of the league.
Tales of demonstration etc is designed for the benefit of no one. What good can come of it?

You’d be surprised, I’m a tradesman and I’d help out, but I wouldn’t offer my services to the club under its current ownership. Are you an agent of Mr Osborne?

[GrimsbyGull69]

I can’t remember asking

[Dave]

Jeez. Well lets line ourselves up against the popside and collectively bang our heads against the brick wall.

For a start if the club didn't allow GJ to have an over bloated back room staff, the club wouldn't have to subsidise it now, would it ? if the over bloated back room staff had got it's recruitment correct, we wouldn't have ended up with 11 recognised midfielders in the squad, which should be taken as an open and frank admission, that a number of either injury prone, or players not up to the required standard are sat at the club on contracts, leading to extra players needed to cover, leading to the club to subsidise that also, so is there any wonder the club cant raise enough cash to cover its costs, and it is the fault of whom? Certainly not the fans.

When I talked about tradesman potentially giving their time free, I clearly never at anytime referred to tradesmen working for TUFC free of charge, I clearly was referring to a fictional scenario, which may or may not happen in the future where by the fans did own the stadium.

Admiral is a tradesman and tells us, he would give time to help. Now this an entirely made up person I'm referring to, lets say Paul is an electrician and life long fan of TUFC, Paul buys a stake in the ownership of the stadium and electrical repairs are required, would Paul charge to carry out repairs on a building he had part ownership of, highly doubt it. Would I charge if I had part ownership of the ground or Phoenix Torquay fc to clean up, help with some painting, or assist any tradesman, certainly not, why would I, when I would have part ownership of it.

As for the club , what future does it have now under Osbourne, naivety will get us no where.

[TorquayUntied]

Just had Plainmoor valued for land.

Worth about 135 thousand pound. That's the actual stadium land and it's acreage.

So yes destroy the club pump.5 million in to sell.for 135000 quid..bargain.

[TorquayUntied]

Cost to demolish Plainmoor and get permission to build 6 houses on it maybe 5 as it covers only 2acres of land 1.5 million.

Sell.them all at a profit of 50 grand a pop...yes definitely the owner is selling Plainmoor and wants the club to die to make his fortune.

Hmmmm

[Dave]

For a start land with planning permission can be up to 10 times more valuable.

If Torbay Council can knock down 1 pair of semi detached property at Tweenaway cross and build 9 flats on it, by your reckoning of 6 houses on Plainmoor, guess your suggesting anything up to 36 to 40 flats could be built on Plainmoor, now that tells a different story.