The Gary Johnson effect

[SuperNickyWroe]

On Saturday its my 14th birthday and my uncle Clarke wants to invite all of you to my birthday party at the grand Hotel. [highlight=yellow]Uncle Clarke has promised to buy me a large lego set and wants me to invite all of you to the party where we are going to build a football stadium out of lego. Good old uncle Clarke, he always delivers on his promises to build a new stadium[/highlight]

Thats as close as we will get to a real one with him.

[SuperNickyWroe]

Following the thread with some interest and thought it time to stick my head above the parapet and dive in - probably a dangerous thing to do, but I'm going to risk it.

Firstly, I think the regulars here are absolutely right to have a huge distrust of Osborne, given his track record and also given the Chris Roberts saga we know exactly what can happen and many of those commenting were fairly instrumental in exposing him before it became too late that the club was beyond saving.

However, I think Eddy and Dawlishmatt are raising valid points for discussion and its a shame that sometimes it isn't treated with maybe the respect I think it should deserve and even hints (tongue in cheek I'm sure) that there is some sort of agenda behind.

It would completely worth it for someone with the track record of Clarke Osborne to stick £120k as a secured loan into a desperate club, with the view of using that to seal ownership of the club with a gamble to taking over the land, using it for property development and leaving it high and dry. Worst case is it doesn't pay off, no buyer is found for the club and it goes into administration giving back pennies to the pound, although probably the way the loan was secured would also end up doing ok.

However, that failed - the council stood firm and have so far insisted no sale without a new ground.

Since that has happened, there is no doubt Osborne has invested a significant amount more back into the club. There is no way the club is running full-time at this level anywhere near breakeven - I wouldn't be a but surprised if the losses and required funding are at least £500k per year. Regardless of how that is structured, loan or otherwise, Osborne is pouring money into what is essentially a black hole - there are no substantial assets there, he will never be able to sell the club and recoup any portion of that money, no one is paying for non-league clubs nowadays and it will only get more expensive at the next level up if he is serious about competing. At the time he hired Johnson, crowds and prospects were dire with no real expectation of having such the massive improvement the team has had on the field or with the attendances which will at least have reduced some bleeding.

I[highlight=yellow]t really is a hell of a gamble to be taking in the hope that somehow the council change their minds and handover the land without a new stadium being in place - a £120k punt was worth it, but this is likely to run well past £1million, way beyond any hope of any recovery of the money and thanks to the fans on here, the council do know his track record so hopefully hold firm.[/highlight]

The only strategy I see here is to get the club in enough debt to him that there is absolutely zero chance of rescue and the club has been returned to suitably high position in the football pyramid, together with good attendances that shows it is important to the community, that he can effectively strong arm the council that he either gets the land unconditionally, or immediately pulls the rug and shuts the club. That is real gamble and I'm really not sure that it is the strategy of a savvy businessman regardless of how evil - I'd have said relegation to the Conference South would have been the time to accept defeat, get out with limited losses and stop pouring money into the lobster pot that is Torquay United. At the moment it just looks like throwing good money after bad.

You've said yourself that Osborne has loaned money to the club. If you had look at the post by Rjc70, you would have noted that the current figure is around £1.2m. The figure is still a loan from him to the club, so he will expect it back.
Now, Osborne wouldnt walk away from the club with his £120k loan to the previous board because he saw an opportunity to obtain the freehold of Plainmoor with the promise then of a new stadium (which we know wont happen with his record.) So in effect he either lost £120k and walked away or carried on.
But the key is - which some cant see is that he is only loaning the club money.
For those who still want to believe him - have a look for him on google and companies house.

[Rjc70]

Coz she transferred it into share capital. He won’t. She didn’t look to get it back. He will. Anyway, cheer up. Woking lost.

[exilegull]

[highlight=yellow]You've said yourself that Osborne has loaned money to the club. If you had look at the post by Rjc70, you would have noted that the current figure is around £1.2m. The figure is still a loan from him to the club, so he will expect it back.
Now, Osborne wouldnt walk away from the club with his £120k loan to the previous board because he saw an opportunity to obtain the freehold of Plainmoor with the promise then of a new stadium (which we know wont happen with his record.) So in effect he either lost £120k and walked away or carried on.
But the key is - which some cant see is that he is only loaning the club money.[/highlight]
For those who still want to believe him - have a look for him on google and companies house.

The fact that it is a loan has far less relevance then you are assigning it. Only an unadvised idiot would pump unlimited amounts of equity into a football club - I'm a lifelong Torquay fan and if I got lucky and won the lottery I'd love to bankroll the club, but it would still be going in as loans (probably interest free), that might one day later get converted to equity depending on the circumstances.

As it currently stands Osborne has virtually no hope of getting his money back, loan or otherwise and he will know this very well. The club has pretty much zero in the way of realisable assets. He has four chances to get his money back
a) The club develops a one million pound player
b) The club reaches the FA cup third round and is drawn away to a massive side
c) He builds a sustainable club at football league level with additional revenue streams so it isn't a complete money hole
d) He can somehow convince strong arm the council into giving him the land plainmoor is on so he can use it for a housing development and then pretend to build another ground.

Osborne clearly is no idiot, a) and b) are pretty improbable so it leaves only c) or d). He's taking a large punt that d) comes off.

[exilegull]

Coz she transferred it into share capital. He won’t. She didn’t look to get it back. He will. Anyway, cheer up. Woking lost.

Yeah agreed, he will but at the current time he has less chance of getting back £1.2million from Torquay United football club as I have if I lent SNW £1.2million. The fact I lent it rather than gave it doesn't in reality make any difference.

[Rjc70]

Yeah agreed, he will but at the current time he has less chance of getting back £1.2million from Torquay United football club as I have if I lent SNW £1.2million. The fact I lent it rather than gave it doesn't in reality make any difference.

There are other options other than your a) to d), exile. These can also be seen when looking at his back catalogue. But for now, I am going to enjoy Woking’s implosion tonight.

[Southampton Gull]

. . .. ., .(ive finished my homework and i see the bully hasnt been allowed out to play since being called out)

If you feel you've been bullied on here then I strongly urge you to take your evidence to the police. Obviously a 12 year old posting after 3am would suggest you're suffering nightmares so there must be serious repercussions in asking someone repeatedly to justify a view they don't hold

I wasn't in hiding just enjoying the company of my better half over a lovely meal in the city

[Southampton Gull]

But for now, I am going to enjoy Woking’s implosion tonight.

I'm quietly confident that we'll steadily pull away from the rest. If we can avoid more injuries I think we have the quality the others can't match over a prolonged period. Not counting chickens or hearing any fat lady sing but that's how I see it going.

[Rjc70]

I'm quietly confident that we'll steadily pull away from the rest. If we can avoid more injuries I think we have the quality the others can't match over a prolonged period. Not counting chickens or hearing any fat lady sing but that's how I see it going.

Long way to go, but we’ve got the right Manager to assist with that.

[Scott Brehaut]

Not counting chickens or hearing any fat lady sing but that's how I see it going.

SNW has been singing for a while now

[lucy6lucy]

Yeah agreed, he will but at the current time he has less chance of getting back £1.2million from Torquay United football club as I have if I lent SNW £1.2million. The fact I lent it rather than gave it doesn't in reality make any difference.

If you gave SNW £1.2 million, we will never get live match updates again.

[Southampton Gull]

As I keep telling you, you're commenting on and attributing views to me that I don't hold or share so in reality you've spent a long time failing to grasp a simple fact.

I'm not miffed and you're certainly not 12

[dawlishmatt]

The whole point of any fan's forum is to debate issues of interest concerning the topics raised. Some people have very strong opinions and sometimes these debates become heated. Southampton Gull, Merse BTPIR , SuperNickywroe and many others have very strong views and although I don't know these people personality, I'm sure that the comments they make are not personal. As many followers of this forum will know, I've been crucified many times for my views on Clarke Osborne. I don't take these comments as being insults, I see it as people who have strong convictions that their views are correct, being frustrated that I don't share or agree with their views. We must always remember that we all have one thing in common, our love for Torquay United Football club.

[DWB]

The whole point of any fan's forum is to debate issues of interest concerning the topics raised. Some people have very strong opinions and sometimes these debates become heated. Southampton Gull, Merse BTPIR , SuperNickywroe and many others have very strong views and although I don't know these people personality, I'm sure that the comments they make are not personal. As many followers of this forum will know, I've been crucified many times for my views on Clarke Osborne. I don't take these comments as being insults, I see it as people who have strong convictions that their views are correct, being frustrated that I don't share or agree with their views. We must always remember that we all have one thing in common, our love for Torquay United Football club.

[SuperNickyWroe]

The whole point of any fan's forum is to debate issues of interest concerning the topics raised. Some people have very strong opinions and sometimes these debates become heated. Southampton Gull, Merse BTPIR , SuperNickywroe and many others have very strong views and although I don't know these people personality, I'm sure that the comments they make are not personal. As many followers of this forum will know, I've been crucified many times for my views on Clarke Osborne. I don't take these comments as being insults, I see it as people who have strong convictions that their views are correct, being frustrated that I don't share or agree with their views. We must always remember that we all have one thing in common,[highlight=yellow] our love for Torquay United Football club.[/highlight]

That - at least is one thing we can agree on.