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Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 19:30
by MellowYellow
merse btpir wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 18:35
Say what you like about Gary Owers; what he does know is this league...
This isn't a dig at Gary Johnson but he has never managed at this level has he!
WOW! I can't believe you just mentioned Gary Ower's as a guru of this league. I am absolutely not buying into that one. What Gary Johnson has done managing at this level is to turn Ower's ' I know what it takes' hand picked squad from a disaster into a promotion contending team in a short space of time. Look at the tables after Xmas, I think we will find that GJ is the man who ticks all the right boxes.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 19:34
by TUST_Member_Rob
Yeah GO had bath going well too didn't he..
What are you suggesting a manager can only manage one specific league he knows?
Also now we are advocating playing Regis!
Laughable, if Hall or Edwards were available they would have played
What's next? "Maybe if Gowling was hear we wouldn't have conceded 2 goals yesterday?"
Deary me
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:06
by merse btpir
TUST_Member_Rob wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 19:34Also now we are advocating playing Regis!
Read carefully what I posted instead of jumping on the sad old bash merse/bash Owers bandwagon.....
I clearly stated that Johnson was still trying to extend a two-nil advantage rather than shut up shop. I have not stated that Owers is a better manager than Johnson but that Johnson has a different approach to the game and that this different approach might well have been better served by employing a ball winning player behind the strikers to close out a two-nil lead and playing with the wind at their backs as things stood at the start of the second half yesterday.
There will be many tmes when Gary Johnson's more creative approach to setting up his team is generally not more advantageous to Gary Owers more prosaic method ~ I just don't think that in yesterday's instance it wasn't. When you are leading two-nil you don't need to stretch it to three-nil if you close out the game properly. The game was not closed ou properly yesterday as indeed was Weston on Tuesday night and four points have been dropped.
When you see managers on the sideline engaged in conversation with their number two; such differing views are often exchanged. That is the whole point of working with an assistant. Yes the boss has the final say and makes the decisions but he will often benefit from someone seeing it differently than two heads being as one; otherwise what is the point of a second opinion?
At least we are seeing pro-active decision making on the pitch from the first whistle now as opposed to the dreadful mis-management from the technical area we used to see and that stretches back beyond Owers. It's not disrespectful to offer a different viewpoint than Gary Johnson's; in no way. He is a proven manager with a great track record and has obviously woken up this club as it needed to be woken up. But some of you people need to leave your issues over Gary Owers behind and take a bigger picture view of what we have now.
I'm still saying that Adam Cunnington was not dealt with properly when he came on and he was the man who swung the game for Billericay ~ any idiot can see that.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:30
by Southampton Gull
You brought Owers into the equation so perhaps it's you that has the issues regarding Owers. I mean it was you that told us all how he knew how to set up a team blah blah. He proved to be tactically inept and as inspiring as a dose of Chlamydia yet you still try and force your undeniably flawed version of who Owers was. He failed where Nicholson twice succeeded both times with less backing than Owers. Johnson came in and immediately improved what Owers definitely couldn't.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:37
by merse btpir
Southampton Gull wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 20:30 you still try and force your undeniably flawed version of who Owers was. He failed where Nicholson twice succeeded both times with less backing than Owers. Johnson came in and immediately improved what Owers definitely couldn't.
No I do not; I pointed out the different ways in which the two managers use the man behind the main strikers. That's not forcing any view on anyone; it's offering an opinion. To claim that Nicholson 'succeeded' in anything is airy-fairy land thinking. He's now managing village green football in Cornwall and that is a result of his standing in the game; get real!
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:41
by Southampton Gull
He succeeded by doing what he was asked by the CEO at the time, proved conclusively by Stephen Breed himself. You need to get over the fact Val Balson appointed him and accept that he did what your golden boy Owers couldn't.
I'm as real as they come, it matters not what job he's doing now as it's irrelevant to the job he did here.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:44
by MellowYellow
merse btpir wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 20:06
But some of you people need to leave your issues over Gary Owers behind and take a bigger picture view of what we have now.
I understand where your coming from on closing out the game, however, I dont know if you watched the Billericay game but in the first half we were very good with the ball and totally opened Billericay up with some nice passages of play. So for the manager and for supporters why shoud we not expect the same in the second half rather than change to a Davy Crockett format and line up a Battle of the Alamo defense. As Johnson says 'Shrinking Violets', alluding that some of Ower's hand picked players are not up to the grade.
As for the issues of Gary Owers as the Messiah or the Beelzebub of the NLS - you were the one that raised it.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:49
by nickbrod
Who is this Nicholson you keep harping on about?
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 20:52
by Southampton Gull
A legend
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:11
by MellowYellow
Legend? That's a word which is so often misused, particularly in football. How then do players become legends in the eyes of supporters? Is it for long service to their side, for inspiring their club to titles and cups, or for one goal of huge significance?
The passing of time can either dilute or enhance the reputation of players/managers deemed to have played significant roles in a club's history. In some cases, the retelling of a story of a legend will be prone to exaggeration and yet, in others, the diminishing number of fans who can recall a certain player wearing their team's colours will perhaps see a club legend's achievements being recognised less and less e.g. Sammy Collins .204 league goals in 356 games and a 40 goal season in 1955-56 or Frank O'Farrell who took the Gulls to promotion in his first season in charge and followed this with sixth- and seventh-place finishes in Division Three in the following two seasons.
Nicholson may be a hero to many and a villain to others, but I am not sure he has secured his place as one of Torquay's truly great legends.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:13
by nickbrod
He was certainly a left leg-end as a player.
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:18
by Southampton Gull
MellowYellow wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 21:11
Legend? That's a word which is so often misused, particularly in football. How then do players become legends in the eyes of supporters? Is it for long service to their side, for inspiring their club to titles and cups, or for one goal of huge significance?
The passing of time can either dilute or enhance the reputation of players/managers deemed to have played significant roles in a club's history. In some cases, the retelling of a story of a legend will be prone to exaggeration and yet, in others, the diminishing number of fans who can recall a certain player wearing their team's colours will perhaps see a club legend's achievements being recognised less and less e.g. Sammy Collins .204 league goals in 356 games and a 40 goal season in 1955-56 or Frank O'Farrell who took the Gulls to promotion in his first season in charge and followed this with sixth- and seventh-place finishes in Division Three in the following two seasons.
Nicholson may be a hero to many and a villain to others, but I am not sure he has secured his place as one of Torquay's truly great legends.
Don't mistake a teasing retort for a seriously held belief
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:25
by MellowYellow
MellowYellow wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 21:23
0' good- so you want take offense in my belief that Ower's should be held up as a true Torquay Legend. No other manager in the history of the club has been able to take us into the world of regional football. Maybe we could rename the Pop-side terrace after him. :}
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 04 Nov 2018, 21:30
by desperado
Not sure who this ball winning player Merse wanted to bring on was . We had Sokolik and Nabi
two players not match fit by a long way but on the bench (and not what you would call ball winners ), because we had no-one else, or the 16 yr old Koszela
Torquayunited v Billericay Town 3/11/18
Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 06:39
by merse btpir
desperado wrote: ↑04 Nov 2018, 21:30 Not sure who this ball winning player Merse wanted to bring on was . We had Sokolik and Nabi two players not match fit by a long way but on the bench (and not what you would call ball winners ), because we had no-one else, or the 16 yr old Koszela
For your information; what I did say was...'As it was Adam Cunnington who came on and the game swung, then I am not surprised because by playing Kalala where Owers played Regis; Johnson is still trying to extend a two-nil advantage rather than shut up shop and match big man Cunnington pound for pound'
That is not putting up Gary Owers as a superior manager to Gary Johnson; it is pointing out a different approach that he used.
Then take on board that Johnson is (at the moment) operating with a mainly Owers' recruited squad and maybe those so quick to jump on the bash Merse/bash Owers bandwagon will calm down and actually read what was posted in the manner in which it was presented rather than in the manner they try to interpret it and put it others.
Maybe Sokolik and Nabi as fresh legs in midfield, freeing Evans to play further forward in the 'Regis' role ~ and that's not as a 'ball winner' per se but one who would get his foot in early and upset the composure of the opposition and their propensity to deliver a succession of balls to their front men without being put under pressure of that sort...it's another manner of playing and one which was used early in the season at the expense of having a 'Kalala' type free spirit in the equation. Do you need that 'free spirit' when you are two up? Well 2-0 should win you the game and changing that 'free spirit' role for one more aggressive and likely to trigger overturning possession higher up the field is worth considering in my opinion.
From what I have read, Evans was nullified from his first half effectiveness by Billericay anyway and maybe that's understandable with the less than physically strong Kalala and Janneh flanking him as the third game in seven days wore on and the windy conditions reduced the game to a more physical contest.
