Taking The Knee

[Southampton Gull]

It might help if you direct your quote to the correct person. No wonder you keep changing your credentials.

[Dave_Pougher]

Apart from your behaviour towards those that chose to

'Would I voice my opposition to BLM if I was in the ground and our players took the knee? Hell yes'

Totally lost me now mate lol

No I would note voice my opinion to those that took the knee,
Said so in my answer

Bored with this irrelevance now

[culmstockgull]

BLM, all lives matter, if you look at the figures you will find that black people kill black people far more than whites do, so surely this aspect of the argument should be addressed to the BLM press officer, a pressure group probably set up with the best of intentions that has been hijacked by the loonie left and thus alienating far more people of the moderate live and let live persuasion. Never heard a racist comment at Plainmoor , If you call me a racist because I do not support your views on promoting one group in society over another which is what BLM now subscribes too, with their call for positive discrimination to address perceived inequalities then human nature dictates I will fight back against such a concept.

[gullintwoplaces]

I’m sad to see the far right wing raise its ugly face on this forum. We don’t need this.

[Dave]

The reason why I often avoid these types of discussions is, the putting of words into other peoples mouths, misinterpretation of opinions, and the usual accusations of people being far right, when most people haven't got a clue what genuine real far right is, or who they are and just how dangerous they are, or accusations of being subconscious racists is another one that pops up for having a view that doesn't fit the neo-liberal normal.

For a start I'm coming to the defence of Dave_Pougher he clearly did not mean, or even suggest the subject of racial discrimination was an irrelevance, he clearly was referring to this discussion thread, an instance of people putting words into the mouths of others.

Secondly I'll point all to the post made by SNW, a personal friend of mine, who 'is' from the BAME community, and has faced the racial discrimination, I'll bow to his view point over most on this forum, on this subject.

Racism in 'all' it's forms is abhorrent, the fact we're still talking about in 2020 pretty pathetic wouldn't we all agree. I totally agree with SNW however taking the knee is an empty gesture, and how many players are doing it because their more scared of the backlash if they don't, has any thought of that ?

The linking of arms between QPR and Millwall had a far greater impact, and gave those who wish to boo no where to go.

You will not fix racism in football, until you fix racism in society, someone who is a genuine racist, will be racist at work, down the pub, in the theatre watching the ballet with the wife, it's not just the football ground that changes someone's view point, it's in them all day, every day.

Do I support the statement ' Black lives matter' yes 100 % without question, do I support 'Black lives matter' the organisation, no I don't, they have an agenda particularly across the pond in the U.S.A that goes way beyond just fixing racism. That's not because deep down inside I'm racist without even knowing it.

You won't fix racism by banning TV shows, editing lyrics in songs, or by trying to hide history none of this made any single person a racist, it just causes more anger, division and hate.

You can't beat racism, discrimination and hate, with reverse racism, discrimination and hate. prime example of that was when poorly educated ignorant young people thought it right to spray BLM slogans on war memorials, built to honour so many BAME soldiers who gave their lives along side white soldiers to beat Nazism , strange but true. We saw people who turned up to defend those memorials, who weren't far right, or football fans, but in the main ex military veterans described as 'fat old white men', by those who shout so loudly against racism, hypocrisy isn't it ?

Why do neo-liberals feel it right in this country to refer to Black people, as people of colour? what colour are Black people? red, pink, blue, aren't white also people of colour also, in the USA they they refer Black people as African American why ? if that isn't racial stereo typing what is ? That's not meant to cause offence or be controversial, I genuinely believe it to be part of the problem.

If we want to fix racism, I believe the view point expressed by so many Black people of the need to stop talking about race to be the correct one, BAME people do so much good in communities across the country, but so do white people. There's bad in BAME and white alike.

I am well aware of traffic stops, arrests, stop and search and the intolerable levels of discrimination BAME people suffer on a daily basis, however bad things happen to white people also, though not on the same scale.

Since the heinous murder of George Floyd the world has been force fed race issues on the daily basis, again the cause of heightened tensions division and hate.

I don't see colour never have, take as I find. I firmly believe the way to fix racism is to start promoting racial unity, lets start filling our tv screen and media with these sorts news worthy items, no one was born racist.







Hope my post is taking with the good intentions meant.

[gullintwoplaces]

I note that Forever queries my use of “far right”, but not of the divisive rhetoric that states that Black Lives Matter is “Marxist”. I know full well what the “far right” is thanks (Millwall is a club where many subscribing to these views are found). Labelling organisations that they disagree with as “Marxist” is a key part of the far right bag of tricks. And by the way, I don’t believe that players should be bullied into taking the knee, it is a matter of personal choice, but booing those who choose to do so is outrageous.

[Southampton Gull]

Bang on the money post by Forever. I'd have thought you'd have taken more from it GITP, you're normally much more astute than that.

[gullintwoplaces]

Bang on the money post by Forever. I'd have thought you'd have taken more from it GITP, you're normally much more astute than that.

I’ve added to my comment. For me this is about choice, players can choose to do this or not. Booing when they choose to do so is totally unacceptable. As for the rest of what Forever said, I think it was a well argued post and I don’t disagree with what he said. My problem is the divisiveness of those who think that players shouldn’t be allowed to do this.

[Southampton Gull]

Fair comment. I'm more of the mindset of SNW which coincides with BAME members of my own family. I see Marxism emanating from the leadership and those who fund BLM, not necessarily among those that follow their lead. I'm not seeing anything far right from anyone, just some people tiring of the need to have these political gestures rammed in our faces at sporting events. I'd support any laws that punish racism along with a number of other issues.

[madgull]

There's always an excuse for these cowardly snowflakes to be "offended" by anti-racism gestures, isn't there? Pretty sure that they changed it to taking a knee "in solidarity with the victims of racial injustice" because too many of the snowflakes kicked and screamed about not agreeing with the politics of the BLM movement. It's cool, though, I guess victims of racism can think "well at least those guys didn't need to feel they were supporting an organisation they didn't fully agree with" the next time they're getting shot/abused/attacked.

Man, I remember the days when people had the balls to say what they REALLY think instead of hiding behind all these phoney soundbites.

[MellowYellow]

What is this symbolic gesture -'taking the knee' within football stadia? Isn't kneeling a gesture of servitude that went out when that same Slavery Abolition Act, freed slaves in 1833?

Should we perform or support a gesture that has now been hi-jacked by political extremists demanding the abolition of the police and destruction of “capitalism”, even though that would destroy the life chances of racial minorities?

Black lives do matter. The founding fathers of Abolitionism understood that well. Hence, the country of Liberia was founded for freed slaves who wished to return to West Africa. Few did. Nonetheless, black lives do matter equally today, that’s why black-on-black knife crime is so tragic, wherever it happens.

While 'taking the knee' no doubt offers affirmation and encouragement to some, however, it is, of itself, merely a symbol — a powerful symbol adopted by many around the world, but a symbol, none the less. I recognise the historical suffering and dehumanisation of any ethnicity, and will always support 'just causes' to eradicate the aftermath of this suffering.

However, for those who find this symbolic gesture commendable as it may well be, 'taking the knee' is, of itself, void of any substance that can show a meaningful way forward. It may allow people to polish their halos but doesn’t improve anything. That takes work!

[Dave]

I note that Forever queries my use of “far right”, but not of the divisive rhetoric that states that Black Lives Matter is “Marxist”. I know full well what the “far right” is thanks (Millwall is a club where many subscribing to these views are found). Labelling organisations that they disagree with as “Marxist” is a key part of the far right bag of tricks. And by the way, I don’t believe that players should be bullied into taking the knee, it is a matter of personal choice, but booing those who choose to do so is outrageous.

I wasn't aiming the section of my post about the far right solely at you, it was meant more as a general point, from TV to Radio debates, also around the internet on various platforms and publications such the Huffington post for instance. Every time there's an article or debate on BLM or Brexit tags such as 'far right' or 'racist' are thrown around like confetti, it just cheapens the meaning.

I've read through every post, I can not see anything far right on this thread, so my response was in part towards your good self, because you do say I’m sad to see the far right wing raise its ugly face on this forum


This part meant in general

As for the labelling BLM as Marxist, there is an article in the New York post that claims Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists”

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-fo ... d-marxist/

Truth or fake news ?

[Dave]

Isnt that the point? the levels of discrimination are intolerable and there shouldnt be any discrimination?

And saying 'bad things happen to white people also, though not on the same scale' seems to justify this as a tollerance that society should be wiling to accept.

If Mrcus Rashford hadnt highlight meals for kids and it was left to local councils would the government have u turned? Most likely not but by using his profile to highlight an issue a change occurred.

You're clearly extremely passionate on this subject for which, you have my respect, but I believe you are letting your emotions on this subject spill over some what.

Racism as we both know hasn't just emerged, it's sadly nothing new, it's deep rooted over hundreds of years, there's no overnight fix, gestures, great speeches from politicians and celebrities alike are not going to fix a problem that society hasn't been able to fix from way before the Hartlepool legend of a monkey mistakenly hung as a French spy during the Napoleonic wars.

Of course there shouldn't be any discrimination, however there shouldn't be any disclination for 'all' Saying 'bad things happen to white people also, though not on the same scale' isn't trying to justify anything, it is a statement of plain fact. From the 17th through to 18th century there were white slaves, again I'm not using this to justify anything. Google search the story of Justine Damond if you don't know who she is, not using that to justify anything either.

We all want an end to racism, division and hate, but as I said in my post, it has to end for all, other wise there is no fix. We can't put stories to one side, and pretend what happened to Tony Timpa and Justine Damond along with others didn't happen, because Black lives matter more.

Right now anti BAME racism is by far and a way the biggest problem, no one is denying that, as I said in my post, I believe the only was forward is to promote racial unity, that's not going happen unless we're as equally passionate when White lives are lost to injustice, failure to do so only promotes division and hate, it only give the recruitment sergeants of the true extreme far right, greater ammunition to add to their ranks.

Hopefully you'll see the point I'm trying to make, which is genuine and heartfelt.

P.S I have nothing but the upmost respect for Marcus Rashford.

[davethegull2]

I see that an Exeter fan was ejected for "booing" the players taking the knee. So clubs are now actively supporting the Marxist BLM political movement and suppressing legitimate resistance to their propaganda. This is a disgrace and affront to freedom of speech.

As I've said before. I will never support a Marxist trojan horse organisation cynically using and weaponising racism for its own agenda. I will always oppose racism. Do not be bullied by these apologists for Orwellian doublespeak.

All Lives Matter. Kick Racism out of Football.

[davethegull2]

Dont think that people should be free to express themselves without fear of abuse from others with opposing veiws. Maybe thats why he was eject.

And just as i would expect anyone to be ejected if they booed the minute silence on remeberance weekend. But i guess you would be ok if people booed that? It is free speach after all.

You either have freedom of speech or you don't and that means freedom to disagree as well. Football is supposed to be free of politics. BLM is a political Marxist movement. Remembrance Sunday is a sacred moment where we honour our war dead, not the same thing at all. While I would be horrified if someone broke the minutes silence in protest, I would defend their right to do it. My Father and maternal Grandfather fought fascism to ensure that right. Millions died fighting to defend that right. We should not hand it over to a bunch of marxist supporting, virtue signalling knob jockeys.