No Rene - no loan market until Friday...

[PlainmoorRoar]

when does the loan window close?

[Plymouth Gull]

March sometime, PR.

[chunkygull]

Let's all cut the niceness, accept we are in the sh*t and that someone is responsible for it. They need our continued support but they must earn this and not take the p*ss. Martin, tomorrow, just b*llocks to it all and go out and get them to beat some real sh*t out of Fleetwood. Make Fleetwood wonder what the hell is going on. Be a non-league side against a Premier side, get stuck in, get the ball out wide and get forward quick, let's just let rip and give ourselves a chance. Let's not accept defeat before we've even started. We can beat Fleetwood, just let the boys at the back do their jobs and get the ball to Thommo , Billy , Jarvis and Yeoman and just attack attack attack!!

If you go defensive in this one then i need you to leave the club after the game mate as it's beyond a joke.

i dont usually comment on actual football with regards to the team these days as i dont get to see them very often due to work, childcare and financial issues. i have strong views on footballing philosophy and managers in particular. i could write all of that but some would not like it. all i will say is the old phrase "attack is the best form of defence" is probably the simplest and best tactic. if we have the ball and keep getting forward it stops jittery play at the back , keeps the ball away from the opposition and increases your chance of scoring more goals, therefore more chance of winning.

when i have watched us play and we actually get forward we look quite good and capable.

too many managers these days are more worried about what the opposition are going to do than encouraging their own team to get forward and score goals. too often managers are more worried about losing than going out and trying to win games.any team in this league can be beaten by any other team that is a fact. the gulf is not that big and its frustrating as hell when we dont go for it.

it is only recently in the last 12 years we have heard expressions like holding/defensive midfielder or diamond formation, i seem to remember it was erikkson when he became england manager who started all that. phrases like protecting the back 4 get on my nerves, it is the whole teams job to defend and it should start from those at the front not losing the ball easily. it is mainly though the back 4's job to defend. when the ball is lost all the players should be trying to get back and retrieve it just as fast as the other team get forward.

the best teams all over the world dont worry about the opposition they just go out and play football and attack. surely if we are going to lose by an odd goal it would be better to go down 4:3 by attacking rather than hope to nick a 1.0 and lose anyway.

as for bringing in new players we should use the full squad if new faces are not available. too many managers bleat on about needing more players or how they cant work with what they have. give players a chance you never know. the manager has brought these players in or kept them on so he should work with them. they are "professional" footballers so should be able to play any way they are told and if they are not good enough shouldnt be there.
a manager should be finding a solution to get the best out of what he has.

the best football i have seen was the team under leroy rosenior, yes a lot of people say roy mcfarland or colin lee signed a lot of the players but the previous seasons the players looked average to ok and the football was dire to average.
the manager actually took the players and worked a bit of magic and got the team playing . he took some average to good footballers and played some great football. we had 2 players like kevin hill and matt hockley in midfield who were good players, dedicated 110%'ers but not gifted footballers who in that team were integral and did their job well. they both looked greatly improved as they went on. both examples of "management" and using your squad well.

the buck always stops with the manager. the team is only playing the way they are told, if they are not playing how the manager wants then issues have to be addressed.

[royalgull]

Just shows what I said weeks/months ago, getting players (half decent players) to come here on short term deals is nigh on impossible. Goulding would have been ideal but why would he leave Cheltenham and then want to come here? He'd have to be mental.

Occasionally we'll stumble on something i.e. Branston (has boots will travel) who at the time was a single man looking for a way back in the game after a couple of failed spells elsewhere, Stanley the same. Most players mid to late 20's with a bit of experience/quality for this level have families and the decision isn't just cut and dried in terms of we may be a slightly better team/club than their current one but if they are under contract somewhere it's an enormous gamble to drop that to make such a big move to Torquay in terms of relocation for such a short contract. Players would do it if we payed well enough or offered them long enough, 2 things we can't do. it'll often mean said players could be hours away from his family living out of a hotel for a month, or if they choose to re-locate then all the issues that go with that come into play, then again you'd be nuts to take your kids out of school up sticks and move to Devon for 3 months work tops. Not many will do it.

The best chance we've got is finding a young kid from a Prem/Championship club with no commitments who just wants to play football for a month then you have to way up whether he's better than what we've got or if he's an Aldred or MacDonald who just sits on the bench every week, then what's the point?

The final option and this is why we're looking at Logan is he's a proven football league striker who lives locally already so none of the above is a problem, the issue is he is literally the only one I can think of who fits this category available and that's before you think about whether he's actually good enough.

[brucie]

Yes Rosenior did get the team paying good football - but the good players were here before he was. He then proved himself to be an absolutely clueless manager.
I can't really blame Ling for not utilising the whole squad - the problem is that most of the benchwarmers are completely useless. Thats the problem with our team, we have nothing like enough quality.
I cannot believe the mentality of the people who say it doesn't really make any difference if we lose the next two games. That is completely idiotic. We lose the next couple and we could be in deep shit - the problem will come if we then lose one or two key players such as Howe or Downes to injury.
Surely we should have looked to strengthen the squad with a loan signing - we appear to be playing russian roulette with our league status at the moment.

[usagullmichigan]

Yes Rosenior did get the team paying good football - but the good players were here before he was. He then proved himself to be an absolutely clueless manager.
I can't really blame Ling for not utilising the whole squad - the problem is that most of the benchwarmers are completely useless. Thats the problem with our team, we have nothing like enough quality.
I cannot believe the mentality of the people who say it doesn't really make any difference if we lose the next two games. That is completely idiotic. We lose the next couple and we could be in deep sh*t - the problem will come if we then lose one or two key players such as Howe or Downes to injury.
Surely we should have looked to strengthen the squad with a loan signing - we appear to be playing russian roulette with our league status at the moment.

Don't think anyone said it doesn't matter if we lose, of course it matters.

[Dave]

Just shows what I said weeks/months ago, getting players (half decent players) to come here on short term deals is nigh on impossible. Goulding would have been ideal but why would he leave Cheltenham and then want to come here? He'd have to be mental.

Sorry Royal me old mate, not intentional but we dissagree again, Cheltenham to Torquay is hardly what I would call a relocate christ even rolling along at 70-75 mph it is no more than a 2 hr drive, I can understand perhaps wanting to wait until the summer seeing what his options are before deciding his next move, however playing for us between now and the end of the season would give him game time, time to prove to many clubs what he has to offer, because right now what has he got at Cheltenham..nothing he will not play for them again.

Your argument about getting good players on short term deals does not stack up either, in Janaury many clubs , trust me ours included have pretty much made up their minds about which players are staying and who is going, many clubs at League 1,2 levels make players who are not being kept availble for loan moves , in the middle of Buckles last season with us, he had no trouble bringing in Criag Stanley,Jake Robinson and Gavin Tomlin . In the past we have brought in the likes of Ellis on loan in the first place from Bolton, yes he was a young and local lad, but also didn't Chris Robertson join us on loan for Sheff,Utd before making his move permanent, even Danny Hollands who I beieve we loaned for Chelsea's reserve team at the time..it can be done.

[bengull]

I completely and utterly f**king despair with some people. I get the feeling that some fans are looking forward to going to the game tomorrow purely just to shout and rant until their hearts are content. In fact I would hazard a guess that some people want us to lose so they can ramp up their negativity further, whereas if they concentrated their energy in getting behind the players, some of them who look completely bereft of confidence would start to believe.

I would love to post on here more often but the constant negativity really brings me down, REALLY brings me down. I stand on the terraces every single week watching the match unfold and utter barely a tut at each mistake. To my absolute horror all hell breaks lose all round me, people losing their heads, going apoplectic at individuals, OUR PLAYERS, how are they meant to perform in the face of such fearsome abuse from members of their own supporter ship. I then come on here after every match and am told we are doomed. Repeatedly.

Anyone reading this thread would be under the impression that if we lose our next two games we are definitely getting relegated, cut and dried, no arguments. There are 19 games left, Rene should be available for 17 of them, regardless of how well we do in the next 2 games. Here is a novel approach to being a fan; how about we wait to see what team takes to the pitch in the next 2 games, and see the results of the two matches before we put our psychic hats on and predict the premature demise of our club. Rene's absence could be a blessing in disguise and force the team to play with a bit more freedom for all we know, but we won't know until we see what happens. How about we support the players on the pitch, not ridicule them?

Apparently though it is much easier to stick the knife into our club. A club that has been overachieving for the past few seasons. Do people really think us going up this season is what is best for TUFC? We can barely run the club at a profit in league two without severe prudence and sensible financial restrictions, we would get destroyed in league 1. I have been bleating on all season (on deaf ears it would seem) about needing to sort ourselves off the field, we are doing that. As a consequence the football has suffered, and whilst I admit that results haven't picked up to the the extent that I predicted, there is still plenty of time for it to do so, and still plenty of time for Ling to find the RIGHT man for our situation, not the first man with a pair of boots to offer his services.

I happen to think there is more than enough in the squad to get atleast 3 points out of the next two games (I predict 4) sadly though, most of our players have either been written off before they have kicked a ball, or are so low on confidence through weeks of getting lambasted by their own fans. It is shameful.

If all fans can do is look at the negatives of the situation then they may as well not bother attending. Save yourself the misery you bring onto yourself by constantly looking at situations in a glass half empty vernacular. 2 strikers who are both playing for their future employments in the football league have an excellent opportunity to step up to the plate tomorrow, they might surprise a lot of people. The most disappointing thing for me though is that even if we do well in Ren's absence, Ling probably won't get any credit in the eyes of many. He simply can't win.

I have always accepted this season would be one of transition, and whilst I am disappointed by some of the fare on offer this term, it is nowhere near as bad as some of the detritus I have seen here down the years. Interestingly, neither have I seen our club being run so professionally, sensibly and worthy of pride as it is now. If you turn up every week expecting Barcelona instead of Barnet then I am afraid once again you are supporting the wrong club. We are just about where I would expect us to be with our budget and based in an isolated area so apathetic to its local football club,

I have always said I will judge Ling on where we are this time next season. I fully expect us to be making serious inroads into the top3. Look at what he did at Orient and judge for yourselves. He has excellent credentials at this sort of job. If my predictions go Pete tong I will come on here and admit I was wrong. Unfortunately I get the feeling many people won't have the decency to do the same should Lingy turn us round. In the eyes of many we will succeed inspite of Ling, not because of him.

The football has to improve, I can't disagree with that at all, but in turn so does the mind sets of fans. Keep the faith,

[AustrianAndyGull]

Will you help me change Ben?

[Scott Brehaut]

Ben!!



Where were you all day when me and USA were here fighting off these raving mad people?!?!

[bengull]

Collect all the information about the state of our club, compare our situation to that of every other club in the league. Consider all the mitigating circumstances that have hampered our progress this season. Question whether Martin Ling, as an experienced manager in professional football, really wants to take us down, is deliberately running our club in such this way just to piss us all off and have a massive laugh at our expense, in doing so hindering his own chances of future employment. Remember how bad and unprofessional times where under Roberts and ask whether we haven't actually made gargantuan strides in every conceivable department at our football club.

Ask yourself whether there is actually any manager out there who could do any better with the scant resources at his disposal, whilst in keeping with the visions of the development of the club agreed with the directors upon taking the job in the first place. Ask yourself that with 10 plus players out of contract at the end of the season whether Martin Ling has big plans for next season and this season is more based around surviving at a profit than succeeding at a big loss.

Conclude that we are doing ok, and concede that Martin Ling is doing a perfectly acceptable job under testing and trying circumstances. Remember the really worst of times (if you go back that far) thank your lucky stars we're nowhere near as bad as that.

Prepare and look forward to upcoming northern 600 mile round trips to Rochdale and accrington.

[brucie]

Ben - do you seriously see us getting four points from the next two games. Just cannot see it myself. Nor can I see Ling getting us in the top three next year. Bottom three more like. How on earth are we going to morph into a top three team from one that is serving up utter crap week in week out.
As for Howe - well he is available for 17 games unless he gets injured - that is the problem though the team is devoid of any quality. We simply cannot afford any injuries to say Howe,Downes or Poke because then the cupboard is absolutely bare.
You reckon our club is being run on a pro basis? - why then were we going to sign Logan who probably could not command a place in a conference north or south side?
The last two games I have seen were Southend and Wimbledon. The former we lost because we played an amateur goalkeeper (Rice) masquerading as a professional.
The latter we managed to lose to possibly the worst pro side I have seen (apart from us that is).
But you seem to think we will beat either Fleetwood or a Rotherham side with Evans/Raynor in charge, when we have Taylor and Veysey at the helm.
The fact that we can hardly win a game at the moment isn't a fluke though - for bottom of the league WImbledon, or shite Barnet read Harrogate.
We are crap - take off the rose tinted specs and smell the coffee.

[AustrianAndyGull]

A whole lot of that makes a whole lot of sense Ben, there are a few issues which i have personally with Ling and the set up but as they are issues then by definition they are negative views i'm afraid and i am afraid i cannot fully give 100% unwavered, unquestioned support to Ling and the players at all times. I'm just not that kinda guy :Oops: .

There are things that people will do in life that are unacceptable and they have to be made accountable but if the guilty parties accept they have made errors and worked to iron things out then so much the better. I feel it's like this with Ling. You can't go through life giving people the benefit of the doubt all the time though Ben. I know you're a real decent bloke and so friendly with everyone and no doubt have loads of friends and a great social network, it is proven that people who are positive attract other people and people who are negative make people want to avoid them. So i guess on that basis you will get 99% more support on this forum than me. I've not a problem with that as you know infinately more than i do about Torquay and your posts are always well thought through, eloquent and nicely put together. Mine aren't! . I would just hope that you would see my rants, however disbelieveing they may appear, that i am explaining a situation i see through my eyes which i am worried about and i want to share it to see if anybody else has the b*llocks to agree with me. There aren't that many i can tell you. =D

My views are my views, they may be considered over the top, unreasonable, stupid and crass but for every view i have a reason why i have arrived at that view and would hope that be respected.

Anyway, great post ben and a fivers worth at Spotland my good man?

[bengull]

Alternatively Andy, just ignore everything I say and look toward to telling me 'I told you so' at the end of the season.

I seem to remember Brucie predicting we would get relegated by Christmas last season.......
I seem to remember Brucie predicting Downes would be an injury time bomb waiting to explode......
I seem to remember Brucie predicting Exeter would put us to the sword.......

I have already stated that I am as unimpressed as anyone by some of our football this season, but at other times we have looked really rather good. That's what I prefer to focus on.

Brucie, seriously question here, although I am sure you only ever post to stir things and then piss yourself at the clamour you create so wont get a sensible response;

Did you ever think we could finish a point off automatic promotion last season despite not looking like we could buy a win before mid-October?

[chunkygull]

Yes Rosenior did get the team paying good football - but the good players were here before he was. He then proved himself to be an absolutely clueless manager.
I can't really blame Ling for not utilising the whole squad - the problem is that most of the benchwarmers are completely useless. Thats the problem with our team, we have nothing like enough quality.
I cannot believe the mentality of the people who say it doesn't really make any difference if we lose the next two games. That is completely idiotic. We lose the next couple and we could be in deep sh*t - the problem will come if we then lose one or two key players such as Howe or Downes to injury.
Surely we should have looked to strengthen the squad with a loan signing - we appear to be playing russian roulette with our league status at the moment.

the point i was making about leroy was we did have a lot of the players already even from the team that was nearly relegated. roy mcfarland brought in the likes of russell and fowler. during his season we were very average and the football was boring and poor. leroy got them playing football and we had 2 good seasons and one where bad luck and defensive errors cost us. he made the best of his squad and got the best out of them.

as i said earlier about hill and hockley they had been hard working grafters but nothing more, but the more they played under a manager getting everyone to play in the right way and everyone knew what they were supposed to be doing they improved, passed the ball well and were an important part of the team.

david graham was previously inconsistent and nearly out on his ear and leroy also got the best out of him.it was a shame we didnt have him in league 1. here was a player we picked up from scottish football and later was sold to wigan who that season was promoted to the premier league! although he didnt really figure and then went to clubs further down the league, came back on loan and looked a shadow, then slipped into non league. point being good management got the best out of him.

we were unlucky on the last day in league 1 to be relegated by goal difference after breaking the 50 point safety barrier. the following season the best players had gone and leroy had no money to spend. we were still playing good football but the standard of the club was a lot lower than now. finances and penny pinching were a lot worse then.

it does matter a lot if we lose any games but better to have a go than try and squeeze a 1:0 and lose anyway. too much worrying about the opposition and not giving our own players a chance to carry the initiative and win.
the players are all professionals therefore they should be good enough if they are not they should not be there. when all is said and done they play systems and tactics how the manager tells them.

remember - "attack is the best form of defence".