2nd in the table, 18th in attendances

[AustrianAndyGull]

Torquay is a deprived area and has big problems with teenage pregnancy, crime, unemployment etc i'm not disputing that but if it is the worst like you say then presumably you'd be over the moon to move to Hull, Grimsby, Bradford, Mansfield, Accrington, Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster, Leeds, Barrow, Kettering, Telford, Rotherham, Luton, Swindon, Stoke, Bristol, Birmingham, Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Liverpool, Manchester, Huddersfield, Oldham, Bury, Preston, Hartlepool, Stevenage, Carlisle, Coventry, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Portsmouth, Southampton, Blackpool, Reading, Middlesbrough, Newcastle or any other major town or city that has a club. LOOK AT THOSE PLACES AND TELL ME YOU WOULD PREFER TO LIVE IN ANY OF THEM AHEAD OF TORQUAY. IF YOU DO YOU NEED YOUR HEAD TESTING. I,ve never lived in Torquay but a friend of a friend lived in Hele and now lives somewhere else in the town. He is happy. I've lived in some of the places above and it's no fun believe me. I've not lived in Torquay so perhaps i am commenting blindly but EVERY place in the country has massive problems, Torquay is not unique. I'm not having a go at anyone but i just think if clubs start focussing on giving people value for money and an enjoyable day out instead of using them as cash cows then they may start getting more fans in through the gates. Rip people off and no matter how much cash they,ve got or not got they are not going to come.

[Gulliball]

Torquay is more unfortunate than most in that a huge number move away to university at 18 and never move back. The people I went to school with are now dotted all over the UK and unable to attend on a regular basis - I think I'm winning though, being 600 miles away. There's not even a big city nearby, so very few people ever move back having left.

The membership scheme, which we launched but never pushed, could be a good way to tap into that market, but unfortunately it's going to continue to be a problem for us for a long time to come.

That said the best way to get the crowds in is to have a good side challenging at the top. Our last 4 gates of 2003/04 were all over 5000. If we're on 2700 ish now then we should be averaging up near 3000 by the end of the year. With the new stand (and maybe a new division) that could very easily grow next season too, so by our standards we're not actually doing too badly.

[exilegull]

I'm not having a go at anyone but i just think if clubs start focussing on giving people value for money and an enjoyable day out instead of using them as cash cows then they may start getting more fans in through the gates. Rip people off and no matter how much cash they,ve got or not got they are not going to come.

There is no room to cut prices. A cut in prices may over longer run attract more people but in the short run it will reduce income. The club are already running at the limit and any cut in income will feed straight through into the laying budget and make it more difficult to put out a competitive side and short term/long term the most important driver of support will be success.

[bengull]

I think the club have made great strides off the field to make Torquay United more appetising to the casual fan- you only have to look at the hard work put into the matchday programme to realise that the club is trying everything it can to raise the professionalism of the club.

However, as has been previously mentioned on this thread and many times before, the club is fighting a losing battle. In this season alone we have achieved some excellent results and records, the standard of the football has been good yet home attendances have stayed at a pretty consistent 2000. Even at a slightly above average attendance vs The Gas, streams of people were walking out with 20 minutes to go, disappointed with the product served up on probably their only visit of the season. The casual fan is apathetic to Torquay United, until a Wembley appearance comes along where an extra 10,000 crawl out the woodwork.

In today's climate it is so easy not to support your local team. Man Utd, Liverpool or Chelsea are on the TV atleast once a week, and even if they are not, you can normally find a pub which shows them illegally and still have change from a tenner after a few pints. When I was a young lad getting into football by watching it on Sky or ITV champions league, it would have been so easy for me to follow my friends and be a plastic, my dad, a keen TUFC fan, dragged me up to Plainmoor to watch the local fare and i loved it. I just hope there are dad's out there who are trying everything in their power to take their kids to Plainmoor, but sadly given the amount of Man Utd and Liverpool shirts still on display around Plainmoor on matchdays, this isn't the case.

To this end, i think it is irrelevant to what extent Torquay is regenerated to make itself more like the Riviera it proclaims itself to be, the sad truth is that unless you are dragged up there at a young age and you can instantly agree with the blood and thunder football on offer from a parrochial club, we will not be able to attract any new fans.

It is inevitable, fustratingly so, that the 2000 hardcore who turn up regularly will continue to be punished for the 3000 who don't. We all moan about the lack of promotions and special deals to get feet through the turnstyles, but until you know the deal will guarantee you a bumper crowd it for me is impossible to implement. Sky has ruined football for clubs like ours, and sadly the public of Torquay just can't justify spending that sort of money on something they may not enjoy as, has already been pointed out, the cost of living down here is so expensive.

Doesn't help either that the club gets ridiculed by people who should be trying to promote, you only have to look at the complete faux-pas ballsup made by the idiot from 'The Hotel' that it is still far too easy for the local community to make a joke about Torquay United.

For me though, as one of the loyal 2000, I am so immensely proud of my local club, and judging by the ridicule i get from my mates when I try and discuss TUFC, i'd rather it be kept a secret from fans who, if they were to turn up, would probably end up moaning about it.

[Colorado Gull]

Great post Ben!

[bengull]

Just to add my thoughts on another point raised in this thread...

I deem £17 very good value for the quality of football served up this season and the enjoyment it has brought me - it compares favourably to a concert, stand up show or night out at the cinema which would cost you a lot more. The problem being is that £17 is not an issue for the hardcore who go every day, they more than likely will have budgetted into their income. I can see £17 is a bit steep to the casual whose last visit 4 years ago saw him pay only £14. Sadly, like every facet of life nowadays, that is just inflation, it is necessary. The board will obviously have thought long and hard about pricing, and £17 will be the absolute minimum to keep our heads barely abover water on 2000 crowds.

As pointed out by bobby93 {hi rob!} we can only hope that upon the completion of 'The Bench' there are 300 or so grandstanders who have chosen not to go this season until it is rebuilt, come back. If we can raise our average home crowd to 2400ish it will give me us a little more scope to try a few deals to get more feet through turnstyles on a more regular basis.

It is easy for me to point the finger at those who don't turn up, I guess i am privelleged in so far that i don't have a mortgage or car to maintain, or a girlfriend to spend my money for me, but if i did i would still budget my plainmoor money into my weekly outgoings because going to plainmoor is in my blood. But in times of economic pausity the casual fan will probably be prioritising a drinking binge, 20 litres of fuel, or a new pair Xbox game, and that is their perrogative. Modern life is so expensive.

Should probably add that the ground being on top of a big hill 20 minute walking distance from the town centre, and with unreliable bus links and ridiculously expensive bus tickets, the geography of Plainmoor in relation to the area doesn't do us any favours either.

[hector]

Torbay is economically deprived as are many other areas. The main difference between say Torquay and a place like say, Wigan, is that the general population of Torbay is not a local one. So many of the local populace come from somewhere else so have not grown up with TUFC, feel no affinity for the club etc.

[bobby93]

The casual fan is apathetic to Torquay United, until a Wembley appearance comes along where an extra 10,000 crawl out the woodwork.

Pretty much in agreement with everything you've said Ben. Just to confirm this point though, we remarkably took LESS to our successful Conference Playoff Final than we did to the FAT Final the year before. Which (perhaps understandably, but still disappointingly) seems to suggest that the casual fans had seen Wembley once and weren't that interested in going again.

Hull, Grimsby, Bradford, Mansfield, Accrington, Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham, Doncaster, Leeds, Barrow, Kettering, Telford, Rotherham, Luton, Swindon, Stoke, Bristol, Birmingham, Rochdale, Scunthorpe, Liverpool, Manchester, Huddersfield, Oldham, Bury, Preston, Hartlepool, Stevenage, Carlisle, Coventry, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Portsmouth, Southampton, Blackpool, Reading, Middlesbrough, Newcastle or any other major town or city that has a club. LOOK AT THOSE PLACES AND TELL ME YOU WOULD PREFER TO LIVE IN ANY OF THEM AHEAD OF TORQUAY. IF YOU DO YOU NEED YOUR HEAD TESTING.

Don't really agree with that. Completely ignoring the point that people are looking for different things when they are choosing somewhere to live, and comparing say Birmingham or Bristol to Torquay is completely irrelevant, those are all massive places with a far more diverse demographic of potential supporters, and maybe some of them aren't immediately attractive (I know Carlisle very well), but for whatever reason people in general choose to live there over here.

[WestLondonYellow]

Torbay is economically deprived as are many other areas. The main difference between say Torquay and a place like say, Wigan, is that the general population of Torbay is not a local one. So many of the local populace come from somewhere else so have not grown up with TUFC, feel no affinity for the club etc.

Not sure i agree with this, if you are a football fan then you would try to go to games. I live in West London, and when I can i go to watch Fulham. If i lived in Spain or Portugal, as i hope to do one day, I would go and watch the local team and probably develop an affinity for them.

[bobby93]

Not sure i agree with this, if you are a football fan then you would try to go to games. I live in West London, and when I can i go to watch Fulham. If i lived in Spain or Portugal, as i hope to do one day, I would go and watch the local team and probably develop an affinity for them.

This might be true for you, and it's true for me and a lot of people I know too, but for some armchair Man Utd/Chelsea/etc fans who prefer the comfort of their sofa, a can of Carling and Sky Sports One every weekend over the terraces of the lower leagues, it probably isn't. And we all know people like that.

I feel like a lot of good points have been made but we're focusing on the negative issues surrounding the town that are beyond our control. We aren't going to be able to have an impact on the regeneration of Torbay as football fans, but we can have an impact on our football club and we know those in power read this site so we all need to think positively about what can be done.

[WestLondonYellow]

This might be true for you, and it's true for me and a lot of people I know too, but for some armchair Man Utd/Chelsea/etc fans who prefer the comfort of their sofa, a can of Carling and Sky Sports One every weekend over the terraces of the lower leagues, it probably isn't. And we all know people like that.

I feel like a lot of good points have been made but we're focusing on the negative issues surrounding the town that are beyond our control. We aren't going to be able to have an impact on the regeneration of Torbay as football fans, but we can have an impact on our football club and we know those in power read this site so we all need to think positively about what can be done.

Great post.
We are having a great season. Unexpected and great. We have a new stand to open for next season. I am all for focussing on the positives, and being positive about the negatives.

[royalgull]

Thing is you are preaching to the converted here. As ever each season this topic arises, it's a slightly false situation because we have a 3 sided ground this year. Some of our gates (Swindon, Argyle, Rovers, Oxford) and also now at the back end as we're going well would be bigger if the ground held more people. That's a definite fact.

Torbay is a lovely place of the country but it's not a densely populated area and it's not a football area. it's a holiday area and it's also a retirement area. it's difficult to change that culture but the club is doing the 2 things they can do.

a) build the facilities to attract people in. As much as I wish it were 1994 and terraces, bovril's, piss stenches and black walls for toilets were the norm it's not anymore. It's about family, community, new facilities and comfortable surroundings to watch football. The days of an 8 year old me sitting on a wall to get a view over everyone standing are over and it's about putting something in place where people feel safe and comfortable at football. (It's also why atmosphere's at most grounds are non exisitant) We will have that when the new stand is up. I bet our attendance goes up, not suddenly from 2200 to 5000 but I bet it's an obvious increase. Where we should thank our lucky stars is we won't have a white elephant ground like Darlington or Oxford or Reading, some multi purpose horrible stadia. We'll still have a ground and have both the modern with traiditonal and we should cherish that as fans.

b) and this is the most important thing. a succesful winning team. If a team is winning people go and watch it really is as simple as that. You can call them glory hunters, plastic fans, fairweather whatever you like, it's money for the club and it is the same for every club up and down the country. when the team wins especially over a consistent period more people go, what you have to do then is offer (a) again to keep them coming. Get them enjoying it so much that Saturday is nothing without going to football. So if the slightly rocky times do come about they keep coming because it's then routine. That's how you build fanbase, and they then pass that on to their kids and their kids to their friends and they come along and it snowballs.

Get the new stand up, get us into League 1, keep the pricing competitive for fans and treat ST holders and old standing fans well with offers for families, kids, school groups etc and our gates will grow steadily.

[Plymouth Gull]

The team have been winning games since October, Royal, yet the gates have stayed the same. I understand your points though - I expect us to be getting 3500+ for most home games through April, 4000+ if it's a game we win to confirm promotion or whatever. L1 we'd average around 3400 I think, perhaps more if we're doing well.

[royalgull]

From now till the end of the season if we had the new stand up our crowds would be good. Those fans turn up when the winning line is in sight.

Easy for me to draw comparisons with Reading and they are similar, if you wanted to watch them earlier in the season easy. The stand behind the goal where the away fans go is half closed (they split it back in the Prem days for more home fans) Now crowds are expected to be 20,000 plus, they've opened the other half for home fans again.

it would be the same here but on a smaller scale. You also get a problem where they were reporting a near sellout for Rovers when in reality there was still a bit of space in the ground, that's not helpful but when you have limited capacity the last thing you want to do is over subscribe and turn people away.

[GulldenBoy]

I've only been skimming so sorry if this is repeating what someone else has said but one of the biggest problems for me is the proximity to a train station or the town centre.

Yes most people drive up to Plainmoor but let's be honest, it's not the easiest ground to get to, which I'm sure a lot of away fans will support me on. This will always put off the casual punter. As an example, I live in Wimbledon and have actually gone along to a couple of Wimbledon games when i've had nothing better to do on a Saturday, and the reason? Because it was easy to get to.

The club needs to work with some of the local bus firms to get a match day service going, and not just from the town centre and the train station but also from some of the surrounding areas. Oxford are an example of doing this well.

Like the rest of us i despised Roberts but his idea about moving the club to the seafront would have increased attendances purely for this reason.