Clark Osborne

[budegull1954]

Standupsitdown, totally diagree with you on this one, and pouring oil on a situation that our owner must love, well if the fans dont want me then I am off,result no ground,no name, no players, not even a lawn mower etc etc, and you are assuming that we will be like other phoenix clubs that automatially fight their way back up the leagues, I believe scarborough have been out of business twice since their community club started, scunthorpe desperately hanging on to not to be a phoenix club, it will not be as straightforward as you think and twice as difficult as you can imagine. If we go,we are gone forever.

Well said culmstockgull - I don't remember any serious bidders coming forward when Bill Phillips put the club up for sale apart from a supposed Chinese investor! The club pretty nearly went out of business in 2015, and the atmosphere at Plainmoor at that time was like a morgue. Love him or hate him, the only reason we have a club to support is because of Clark Osborne. I don't see Macclesfield or Bury returning to even the National League North any time soon - it would be a very long road back for a fan-owned TUFC.

[Dazza]

Yep I agree with you Budegull. And Torbay is not a particularly community facing place is it. ?

[standupsitdown]

Standupsitdown, totally diagree with you on this one, and pouring oil on a situation that our owner must love, well if the fans dont want me then I am off,result no ground,no name, no players, not even a lawn mower etc etc, and you are assuming that we will be like other phoenix clubs that automatially fight their way back up the leagues, I believe scarborough have been out of business twice since their community club started, scunthorpe desperately hanging on to not to be a phoenix club, it will not be as straightforward as you think and twice as difficult as you can imagine. If we go,we are gone forever.

If Osborne left there would still be a ground as he doesn't own it. He could sell the assets or a buyer might make a deal to buy them as they don't amount to much. The name (maybe with AFC added to start with) could be used by a phoenix club. I know it's not easy and there have been successes and failures. Key factors are to keep Plainmoor and for supporters to work together.

It's obviously far from ideal but at the moment it's hard to see a positive way out of our current situation.

[Admiral]

Chester are a good example of how it’s done right. Yes they might still be hanging around in the NLN after relegation from the NL but that’s the level we’re playing at right now!

[Admiral]

We also got beat by a phoenix club on Saturday…

[WainwrightGull]

We also got beat by a phoenix club on Saturday…

Are they part time Phoenix club ?

[standupsitdown]

Here's a list of phoenix clubs.
You could add FC United of Manchester who started from nothing but with a core of several thousand Man Utd fans.
Mixed success but clubs of our size have made it back to the Football League.
Obviously a far better option would be for Osborne to cut his losses, sell the club for a nominal amount and walk away.

Original club Phoenix club Year established
Merthyr Town F.C. Merthyr Tydfil F.C.[31] 1945
Willand Wanderers F.C. Willand Rovers F.C.[32] 1946
Accrington Stanley F.C. (1891) Accrington Stanley F.C.[33] 1968
Gateshead A.F.C. Gateshead F.C.[34] 1977
Newport County Newport County A.F.C.[35] 1989
Aldershot F.C. Aldershot Town F.C.[36] 1992
Wimbledon F.C.a AFC Wimbledon[37][38][39]
2002
Emley Emley A.F.C.[40] 2005
Hornchurch F.C. A.F.C. Hornchurch[41] 2005
Scarborough F.C. Scarborough Athletic F.C.[42] 2007
Farnborough Town F.C. Farnborough F.C.[43] 2007
Halifax Town A.F.C.[44] F.C. Halifax Town[45] 2008
Fisher Athletic F.C. Fisher F.C.[46] 2009
Chester City F.C. Chester F.C.[47] 2010
Ilkeston Town Ilkeston F.C. 2010
Merthyr Tydfil F.C. Merthyr Town F.C.[31] 2010
King's Lynn Town F.C. King's Lynn F.C. 2010
Rushden & Diamonds F.C. AFC Rushden & Diamonds[48] 2011
Windsor & Eton F.C. Windsor F.C.[49] 2011
Croydon Athletic F.C. AFC Croydon Athletic[50] 2012
Llanelli Town F.C. Llanelli Town A.F.C. 2013
Hereford United F.C. Hereford F.C.[51] 2015
Ilkeston F.C. Ilkeston Town F.C. 2017
North Ferriby United A.F.C.[52] North Ferriby F.C.[53] 2019
Bury F.C. Bury A.F.C. 2021
Rhyl F.C. C.P.D. Y Rhyl 1879 2020
Macclesfield Town F.C. Macclesfield F.C. 2020
South Shore F.C. South Shore F.C. 2021
(to start play in 2022–23 season)
Whyteleafe F.C. AFC Whyteleafe[54] 2021

[Admiral]

Rushden & Diamonds, there’s one we all forgot about. NLS/NLN seems the natural ceiling for phoenix clubs of Torquay’s size without significant outside investment.

[standupsitdown]

Rushden & Diamonds, there’s one we all forgot about. NLS/NLN seems the natural ceiling for phoenix clubs of Torquay’s size without significant outside investment.

I agree that NLS/NLN seems to be roughly the ceiling level unless there is other investment.
Probably because gates of under 5,000 aren't enough to sustain full time football without significant additional money being pumped in.
There is however always the possibility of a generous owner being found at some point and moving forward further, provided the club is kept alive.
That's why I think it's crucial that no owner gets their hands on the freehold of Plainmoor as the ground is key to keeping a club at some level. Clubs who have ended up playing miles from their home in a shared stadium rarely prosper.

[Skillsy]

I agree that NLS/NLN seems to be roughly the ceiling level unless there is other investment.
Probably because gates of under 5,000 aren't enough to sustain full time football without significant additional money being pumped in.
There is however always the possibility of a generous owner being found at some point and moving forward further, provided the club is kept alive.
That's why I think it's crucial that no owner gets their hands on the freehold of Plainmoor as the ground is key to keeping a club at some level. Clubs who have ended up playing miles from their home in a shared stadium rarely prosper.

Couldn't agree more!

Personally, I think staying at Plainmoor is the single most important thing for the future of our special club. If we end up paying at a multi-purpose sports stadium, as several clubs at different levels have done....West Ham, Wigan, Gateshead to name a few..........I don't think it will ever be quite the same. Many of them are soulless and feel like an American franchise.
We all want the club to progress but realistically our level is a lower division club, be that League One, League Two or one of the National Leagues.

If that view makes me unambitious, that's fine with me.
See you on Saturday

[Chelston TUFC]

Some of the issues lie with Torbay Council. I'd imagine they had visions of a multipurpose stadium which gave CO encouragement. Its not owners getting their hands on the freehold as much as the council/future councils encouraging opportunistic owners with profitable dreams

[Wolborough]

More about stuffing money into pockets perhaps?

[WainwrightGull]

Here's a list of phoenix clubs.
You could add FC United of Manchester who started from nothing but with a core of several thousand Man Utd fans.
Mixed success but clubs of our size have made it back to the Football League.
Obviously a far better option would be for Osborne to cut his losses, sell the club for a nominal amount and walk away.

Original club Phoenix club Year established
Merthyr Town F.C. Merthyr Tydfil F.C.[31] 1945
Willand Wanderers F.C. Willand Rovers F.C.[32] 1946
Accrington Stanley F.C. (1891) Accrington Stanley F.C.[33] 1968
Gateshead A.F.C. Gateshead F.C.[34] 1977
Newport County Newport County A.F.C.[35] 1989
Aldershot F.C. Aldershot Town F.C.[36] 1992
Wimbledon F.C.a AFC Wimbledon[37][38][39]
2002
Emley Emley A.F.C.[40] 2005
Hornchurch F.C. A.F.C. Hornchurch[41] 2005
Scarborough F.C. Scarborough Athletic F.C.[42] 2007
Farnborough Town F.C. Farnborough F.C.[43] 2007
Halifax Town A.F.C.[44] F.C. Halifax Town[45] 2008
Fisher Athletic F.C. Fisher F.C.[46] 2009
Chester City F.C. Chester F.C.[47] 2010
Ilkeston Town Ilkeston F.C. 2010
Merthyr Tydfil F.C. Merthyr Town F.C.[31] 2010
King's Lynn Town F.C. King's Lynn F.C. 2010
Rushden & Diamonds F.C. AFC Rushden & Diamonds[48] 2011
Windsor & Eton F.C. Windsor F.C.[49] 2011
Croydon Athletic F.C. AFC Croydon Athletic[50] 2012
Llanelli Town F.C. Llanelli Town A.F.C. 2013
Hereford United F.C. Hereford F.C.[51] 2015
Ilkeston F.C. Ilkeston Town F.C. 2017
North Ferriby United A.F.C.[52] North Ferriby F.C.[53] 2019
Bury F.C. Bury A.F.C. 2021
Rhyl F.C. C.P.D. Y Rhyl 1879 2020
Macclesfield Town F.C. Macclesfield F.C. 2020
South Shore F.C. South Shore F.C. 2021
(to start play in 2022–23 season)
Whyteleafe F.C. AFC Whyteleafe[54] 2021

Great , thanks for that and taking the time

[MaxLL]

We all want the club to progress but realistically our level is a lower division club, be that League One, League Two or one of the National Leagues.

Not all clubs are made for the top league. After all, if there are no lower leagues, where will they buy new players from?
Playing a good game with fun is all an average club needs, in my opinion.

[Dave]

but realising it must start from the bottom up, a complete reorganisation of the club, certainly while we remain in the south, scrap the youth system by accepting that the local football league clubs will snap up the best talent way before johnsons brother has got out of bed, the way we operate at the moment is crisis management week to week, we have known since before christmas our forwards are injured but it took until the second week of january to source someone who lasted three minutes and will probably never be seen again, that is not football management, that is panic buying of the worst kind, I do hope that the likes of edwards and above will seek some advice from their peers at other clubs who have a football based education and background, as a suggestion get Warnock in for a week as a consultant to tell you what is right and wrong and listen to what he says.He is a straight talker with no axe to grind but his knowledge of football is second to none. what have we to lose.

Agree with some respects. Yes absolutely never build a football club from the top down, always from the bottom up. I wouldn't scrap the current youth system off however even though I don't see the next big thing coming from it, most parents will be paying a monthly fee for their children to attend anyway so there's no harm in it, but as you say Exeter and Plymouth with their proper academies will take the best local talent.

And this where we're talking about building club from the bottom up, I'd put much MORE emphasis on the age groups U16/U18, add a development squad, there are 18-21 year old players all over the country released by professional clubs, eager for another chance to make it in the game, and this is exactly whereby our club could profit from a late developer, a young player developed into the first team and sold on, rather then kidding ourselves something will turn up from what is nothing more than a community training programme.

Or sitting around moaning 'oh woe is I' we can't afford or attract the right players here.