Our injury situation has been apparent the whole of GJs tenure. Injuries certainly cost us promotion when we were 10 odd points clear, we were walking the league until key injuries finally caught up with us.
Think a lot would agree our first 11 is competitive, but we haven't played them once this season. I think we have around 7 of them injured as we speak.
The causes of so many injuries, 3 obvious ones by the looks of it.
Training on Astroturf pitches, Seale Hayne seems to be well known for being unusable over wet periods. It's likely that between November and March we rarely train on grass. I'm not an expert, but if players don't enjoy playing on Astro, you can assume training on them isn't great for some of them either, especially of its high intensity. In an ideal world we'd have several grass pitches with drainage installed, but cost is key. I'm not even sure we own that land anyhow?
Secondly, signing experienced/older but injury prone players. This one speaks for itself. Decent experienced and fit players are unlikely to sign for us, does GJ take a gamble on the ones he signs playing more than they'll miss? Lapslie and Dawson are both quality players, but the very nature of the way they play leads them prone to injuries. Older players like Hall will pick up injuries quicker and take longer to return.
Lastly, GJs style of play. Full throttle, full on, high intensity, getting stuck in and expected lung busting play from front to back. If you don't, then you're out. Again it's great to watch, but you can see the injuries coming.
The answer?
No idea really, the money to invest in training pitches obviously isn't there. Quality, experienced fit players don't seem to be readily available. Loan players are hit and miss and take time to adapt. GJ isn't going to change his philosophy of 100% commitment every game, and I guess, every training session.
The best option seems to be to bring through our own youngsters. They learn the 'Torquay way", they gain experience from an early age and can play long term for us or be sold on for profit.
Anyhow, I can't see anything changing to reduce the injuries in the near future.
Injuries.
Very difficult subject to post about, unless your a qualified Physio with some inside information on the types of injuries we have/or had at TUFC. Many of us have played at one level or another and encountered our own injuries , some have gone on to gain coaching qualifications and experienced injuries from the other side of the fence.
For me personally played at the lowest reaches of football, but did go one to become a qualified football coach and worked with players up to 18 years old at varying levels up 7 years ago when I decided to step away from it, in that time I came across Osgood-Schlatter's, Plantar fasciitis, strains, pulls and tears, right up to broken bones, however being honest my knowledge of injuries is still very limited.
I know enough however, to say we need to be fair and balanced with our opinions here, also that it's far to simplistic, to believe that it's mainly down to going from training on grass to artificial surfaces, a potential factor, not an absolute cause. There are many teams around the NLP/NLS who train regularly between the two surfaces, some even play their home games on acritical pitch's that have not suffered anything like the season on season injuries we have.
Football is a contact sport, it doesn't matter if your Manchester City or Torquay United you'll get injuries, impact and accidental (awkward falls) injuries are common place, un-avoidable through any season and no ones fault.
There is such a thing known as 'over use' injuries also, this is where money can play a part , most if not all Championship teams and above will spend more on injury prevention than TUFC'S entire annual income, they will have two players, the biggest clubs sometimes three players for every position, so can afford to rotate, or side line a player for 2 weeks complaining of muscle tightness to avoid an 6-8 week lay off for a tear, I'm sure there's been times due to a lack of cover a calculated risk has been taken in player someone who should have been rested here at TUFC.
Use of correct footwear with in the perimeters of what's allowed on artificial surfaces can help, dynamic warn ups and stretches have been long proven to be more effective in injury prevention than static, something drummed in on every course I've done, sure others also, however I can not imagine for a second this will be a problem at TUFC , it's the most basic level 1 knowledge.
Also each player will have a different make up, height, weight, body fat/muscle tissue percentage, so to get a one sized fits all training programme centred around, diet, light and heavy ball work, steady state and high intensity cardio, strength and conditioning all things that done at the right times, and ratio's can help prevent things like muscle breakdown etc, is pretty difficult for the most qualified and experienced of coach's.
I don't not have a clue as to what the answer is, or what the cause at TUFC has been to the perceived injuries, what I do know is, and in the spirit of communication an interview with the physio as what types of injuries are the most common, and what plans are in place to keep the more avoidable ones down to a minimum are, would be helpful for us laymen fans, as the numbers of injuries, season on season are alarmingly high.
For me personally played at the lowest reaches of football, but did go one to become a qualified football coach and worked with players up to 18 years old at varying levels up 7 years ago when I decided to step away from it, in that time I came across Osgood-Schlatter's, Plantar fasciitis, strains, pulls and tears, right up to broken bones, however being honest my knowledge of injuries is still very limited.
I know enough however, to say we need to be fair and balanced with our opinions here, also that it's far to simplistic, to believe that it's mainly down to going from training on grass to artificial surfaces, a potential factor, not an absolute cause. There are many teams around the NLP/NLS who train regularly between the two surfaces, some even play their home games on acritical pitch's that have not suffered anything like the season on season injuries we have.
Football is a contact sport, it doesn't matter if your Manchester City or Torquay United you'll get injuries, impact and accidental (awkward falls) injuries are common place, un-avoidable through any season and no ones fault.
There is such a thing known as 'over use' injuries also, this is where money can play a part , most if not all Championship teams and above will spend more on injury prevention than TUFC'S entire annual income, they will have two players, the biggest clubs sometimes three players for every position, so can afford to rotate, or side line a player for 2 weeks complaining of muscle tightness to avoid an 6-8 week lay off for a tear, I'm sure there's been times due to a lack of cover a calculated risk has been taken in player someone who should have been rested here at TUFC.
Use of correct footwear with in the perimeters of what's allowed on artificial surfaces can help, dynamic warn ups and stretches have been long proven to be more effective in injury prevention than static, something drummed in on every course I've done, sure others also, however I can not imagine for a second this will be a problem at TUFC , it's the most basic level 1 knowledge.
Also each player will have a different make up, height, weight, body fat/muscle tissue percentage, so to get a one sized fits all training programme centred around, diet, light and heavy ball work, steady state and high intensity cardio, strength and conditioning all things that done at the right times, and ratio's can help prevent things like muscle breakdown etc, is pretty difficult for the most qualified and experienced of coach's.
I don't not have a clue as to what the answer is, or what the cause at TUFC has been to the perceived injuries, what I do know is, and in the spirit of communication an interview with the physio as what types of injuries are the most common, and what plans are in place to keep the more avoidable ones down to a minimum are, would be helpful for us laymen fans, as the numbers of injuries, season on season are alarmingly high.
Formerly known as forevertufc
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portugull
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This is an interesting subject and to put some flesh on the bones I have looked at the season to date.
Excluding Dawson who has yet to play I looked at 7 players who if fit would start with 1 possible exception.
Asa Hall. Club Captain. Has played only 6 League games out of 23. Sub 2 Games.
Tom Lapslie. 11 games in the League but injured on 5 Dec via Weymouth in 27th minute.
Aaron Jarvis. 13 games but injured in 95 min at WSM on 24th October. Knee injury likely out for 3 months.
Finlay Craske. 11 games 3 of which were as a sub. Injured at H & R 28th October.
Jack Stobbs 20 games until appeared to pull a hamstring via Weymouth on 5th December.
Brad Ash. 21 games but sustained a stress fracture via Weymouth on 5 December.
Will Jenkins Davies. Ever present 11 games until injured at Hemel Hempstead on 23rd Sept.
Recently returned to fitness.
In the circumstances I think we have done well to be in 3rd place at Christmas.
Excluding Dawson who has yet to play I looked at 7 players who if fit would start with 1 possible exception.
Asa Hall. Club Captain. Has played only 6 League games out of 23. Sub 2 Games.
Tom Lapslie. 11 games in the League but injured on 5 Dec via Weymouth in 27th minute.
Aaron Jarvis. 13 games but injured in 95 min at WSM on 24th October. Knee injury likely out for 3 months.
Finlay Craske. 11 games 3 of which were as a sub. Injured at H & R 28th October.
Jack Stobbs 20 games until appeared to pull a hamstring via Weymouth on 5th December.
Brad Ash. 21 games but sustained a stress fracture via Weymouth on 5 December.
Will Jenkins Davies. Ever present 11 games until injured at Hemel Hempstead on 23rd Sept.
Recently returned to fitness.
In the circumstances I think we have done well to be in 3rd place at Christmas.
Interesting thread. At last a series of posts that attempt to look at a topic without being diverted by a ‘hang the guy’ side comment. Clearly injuries are a serious factor with us and the points made are good ones.
I don’t think Johnson helps himself with his instinct to avoid a serious discussion on this topic and any updates about progress or non progress. I realise he doesn’t want to discuss too much in public but our chances to get back up seem to hang on the number and seriousness of injuries and as such he should be giving much more information on the situation.
I don’t think Johnson helps himself with his instinct to avoid a serious discussion on this topic and any updates about progress or non progress. I realise he doesn’t want to discuss too much in public but our chances to get back up seem to hang on the number and seriousness of injuries and as such he should be giving much more information on the situation.
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Stoneybroke
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Yes injuries have I think been the main factor throughout this season.
We are now in the Hokey Cokey season.....in out ..in out !! And are getting down to the bare bones of our squad. As each game approaches we are wondering who's name comes out of The Gaffer's baseball cap!!!
Unfortunately the number of names available get less each week.
Anyway...Happy New Year to you all.
We are now in the Hokey Cokey season.....in out ..in out !! And are getting down to the bare bones of our squad. As each game approaches we are wondering who's name comes out of The Gaffer's baseball cap!!!
Unfortunately the number of names available get less each week.
Anyway...Happy New Year to you all.
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TerryTorq
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It is good to read some sensible well thought out views on our current injury situation.
Most mornings and late at night, I listen to the sports updates on Radio 5 and over the last few weeks I have become increasingly aware of PL managers referring to the amount of injuries restricting their team selections and causing an imbalance in their squads, the latest being Manchester United. If these teams with their enormous resources are struggling, then we are not alone.
Most mornings and late at night, I listen to the sports updates on Radio 5 and over the last few weeks I have become increasingly aware of PL managers referring to the amount of injuries restricting their team selections and causing an imbalance in their squads, the latest being Manchester United. If these teams with their enormous resources are struggling, then we are not alone.
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culmstockgull
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My neice is a NHS physio at the RDE and she tells me in the most basic of terms there are injuries and recurring injuries, a break or ligament damage will never be as strong as it was prior to the injury, no matter how good the rehabilitation or even if it requires a remedial operation. unless of course you are in the premier and have world leading surgeins on speed dial, some hamstring injuries can be longer term than bone breaks in that they can tear small pieces of bone form the hip joint when they give way. Recurring injuries in are in the main at the site or in the same muscle group of an older original injury , a weakness which can never be rectified, for you and me not a major issue in our everyday life but for someone who makes their living out of sport it is find yourself a new career time or drop down to a league where fitness or mobility are not an overriding concern. We seem to have a number of the latter.
Our current situation is all of the managers doing. Of course he is not responsible for every injury but his criminal mismanagement of the squad does contribute to the amount of injuries we get.
We had two strikers at the start of the season Jarvis and Ash. Nothing else as back up. Instead we sign liabilities like Dawson, Hall and Lapslie who are either always inured, almost always injured or play a couple of games and then are out for a month. They contribute basically nothing and are complete liabilities.
So basically we were forced to play our two main strikers game in game out - no rest, hardly ever substituted just flogged to death game after game playing 100 minutes every match. Is it any wonder they ended up getting injured.
Johnson them repeated this with Theo Williams. Played as the loan striker, flogged to death and got an injury late on in the Truro game. Forced to play the whole game due no other options on the bench. These injuries arnt anything to do with bad luck its all to do with the managers policy.
Imagine if we had signed another couple of forward players rather than the 3 aforementioned sick notes. Probably would have had squad rotation and less injuries to our frontmen - lets be fair Dawson and Hall are a complete waste of money.
I wasnt too concerned when Yeovil signed Nouble - Didnt think his would knees would last long, and thought that Murphy would be out injured more than he played. Look at their squad - four or five decent forward options so their players dont need to play every game and Nouble still going strong. If we had signed him he would probably have been out for the rest of the season by now.
We had two strikers at the start of the season Jarvis and Ash. Nothing else as back up. Instead we sign liabilities like Dawson, Hall and Lapslie who are either always inured, almost always injured or play a couple of games and then are out for a month. They contribute basically nothing and are complete liabilities.
So basically we were forced to play our two main strikers game in game out - no rest, hardly ever substituted just flogged to death game after game playing 100 minutes every match. Is it any wonder they ended up getting injured.
Johnson them repeated this with Theo Williams. Played as the loan striker, flogged to death and got an injury late on in the Truro game. Forced to play the whole game due no other options on the bench. These injuries arnt anything to do with bad luck its all to do with the managers policy.
Imagine if we had signed another couple of forward players rather than the 3 aforementioned sick notes. Probably would have had squad rotation and less injuries to our frontmen - lets be fair Dawson and Hall are a complete waste of money.
I wasnt too concerned when Yeovil signed Nouble - Didnt think his would knees would last long, and thought that Murphy would be out injured more than he played. Look at their squad - four or five decent forward options so their players dont need to play every game and Nouble still going strong. If we had signed him he would probably have been out for the rest of the season by now.
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JimNichol'sdog
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Torquay United's treatment room must either be the largest in non-league football or else be jam packed as a significant number of the squads over the past few years have spent more time in there than on the field! Either that or they're sat in the stand for more games than they're actually on the pitch.
I've nothing against Kevin Dawson and don't wish him ill will. However, to a degree, he is in an enviable position being on, no doubt, a very decent salary while not being able to 'work'.
In my layman's opinion it's time that Gary Johnson and his brother joined his son in the dole queue!!
I've nothing against Kevin Dawson and don't wish him ill will. However, to a degree, he is in an enviable position being on, no doubt, a very decent salary while not being able to 'work'.
In my layman's opinion it's time that Gary Johnson and his brother joined his son in the dole queue!!
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culmstockgull
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JimNichol'sdog , please do not even have that thought , knowing the way our club is run if Johnson leaves his son would get the job.
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The Eternal Optimist
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To all those who are constantly carping on that Johnson should go, need to realise that getting a new manager in will not necessarily result in automatic success. The latest in a long line of these to prove that it doesn't happen that way is Wayne Rooney and Birmingham City. United fans want to be careful what they wish for.
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Wolborough
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If Johnson stays it will be more of the same, season after season after season. Is that what we should all wish for? Nothing against the man but he has had is time. If all clubs retained their managers there would never be any sackings, there would be little opportunities for aspiring managers!
Wayne Rooney at Birmingham City is an entirely different circumstance to here at Torquay United, Birmingham saw a big name , with big reputation who they probably thought could lift them up to the bright lights, and massive pay days of the premier league, Torquay United are an ex EFL club languishing in at least one level below where the club should be, requiring a slow burn style rebuild.
'be careful what you wish for' Sorry just being honest here, utter nonsense. We've had Gary Johnson for 5 seasons and the club is now on field in a much worse position than it's ever been, we couldn't wish for results and performances to be any worse could we ? Home defeat to Truro was as a low as it can get, or maybe not, maybe there's worse to come who knows.
Anyone who's says 'don't think a new manager will automatically bring instant success' I'm a fully paid up member of the GJ out brigade, and will say right now, I 100% agree with that statement, no guarantee that a new manager would hit the deck running personally don't believe that's the way forward, already a slow burn is needed, a whole new, fresh approach is required , with modern thinking. I look at Worthing FC and their 39 year old manager Adam Hinshelwood with total jealousy, boy how I wish we could have him at TUFC.
What I do believe is a new manager and coaching staff should be brought in now, to give them time to work with and assess what's already here, so they've got plenty of time to build forward, and day 1 of next season we're ready to hit the deck running, but we know that's not going to happening GJ will remain the useful idiot.
Going back to injuries, already posted opinions that have been wilfully ignored, not surprised opinions I've expressed don't suit the narrative of some who make more excuses than Gary Johnson does. We're not League 2 or NLP anymore, we're not up against clubs with location plus, status and budgets we can't match, in case you've still not realised ' we're NLS' now up against an almost save a couple, all part-time clubs, who are working with pennies compared to our pounds in resources, of course injuries hamper, they don't help at all, however injuries have NOT been in anyway the main factor, inconsistent performances and results were happening long before the treatment room started to fill, fact.
I've already posted about how Chelmsford had 5 u21's in their line up, and GJ was able to start 7 players who would be deemed regular starters v Truro, we had enough available quality compared to what those teams played had, to have taken 4-6 points from those games, rather than the 0 points actually achieved.
culmstockgull talks about recurring injuries, very much akin to over use injuries I talked about in my first post, whilst I made clear, and most know all injuries are not the fault of GJ, there are questions to answer, the over use, recurring injuries that are so costly in my humble opinion could easily reduced, Lapslie is a prime example of a player who can't seem to say fit consistently, when he returns heavy impact training could be kept to a minimum, and don't flog him to death by playing him game after game, if fit, does Lapslie need to play home v Eastbourne and Dover, NO, we should have more than enough in the squad to win these games, Lapslie is an integral part of the team, we need to see him fit for the run in, but that won't happen GJ will flog him to bits as soon as he's fit and he'll break down again, just like many others, and that's where to problem lays.
'be careful what you wish for' Sorry just being honest here, utter nonsense. We've had Gary Johnson for 5 seasons and the club is now on field in a much worse position than it's ever been, we couldn't wish for results and performances to be any worse could we ? Home defeat to Truro was as a low as it can get, or maybe not, maybe there's worse to come who knows.
Anyone who's says 'don't think a new manager will automatically bring instant success' I'm a fully paid up member of the GJ out brigade, and will say right now, I 100% agree with that statement, no guarantee that a new manager would hit the deck running personally don't believe that's the way forward, already a slow burn is needed, a whole new, fresh approach is required , with modern thinking. I look at Worthing FC and their 39 year old manager Adam Hinshelwood with total jealousy, boy how I wish we could have him at TUFC.
What I do believe is a new manager and coaching staff should be brought in now, to give them time to work with and assess what's already here, so they've got plenty of time to build forward, and day 1 of next season we're ready to hit the deck running, but we know that's not going to happening GJ will remain the useful idiot.
Going back to injuries, already posted opinions that have been wilfully ignored, not surprised opinions I've expressed don't suit the narrative of some who make more excuses than Gary Johnson does. We're not League 2 or NLP anymore, we're not up against clubs with location plus, status and budgets we can't match, in case you've still not realised ' we're NLS' now up against an almost save a couple, all part-time clubs, who are working with pennies compared to our pounds in resources, of course injuries hamper, they don't help at all, however injuries have NOT been in anyway the main factor, inconsistent performances and results were happening long before the treatment room started to fill, fact.
I've already posted about how Chelmsford had 5 u21's in their line up, and GJ was able to start 7 players who would be deemed regular starters v Truro, we had enough available quality compared to what those teams played had, to have taken 4-6 points from those games, rather than the 0 points actually achieved.
culmstockgull talks about recurring injuries, very much akin to over use injuries I talked about in my first post, whilst I made clear, and most know all injuries are not the fault of GJ, there are questions to answer, the over use, recurring injuries that are so costly in my humble opinion could easily reduced, Lapslie is a prime example of a player who can't seem to say fit consistently, when he returns heavy impact training could be kept to a minimum, and don't flog him to death by playing him game after game, if fit, does Lapslie need to play home v Eastbourne and Dover, NO, we should have more than enough in the squad to win these games, Lapslie is an integral part of the team, we need to see him fit for the run in, but that won't happen GJ will flog him to bits as soon as he's fit and he'll break down again, just like many others, and that's where to problem lays.
Formerly known as forevertufc
No of course any new manager is not guaranteed to be an improvement, but could he be an awful lot worse.
Johnson has been terrible for two and a half seasons. I would say there is every chance that we wont even make the play offs - what a terrible indictment that would be.
The last two matches have shown what a poor side we have been all season. What is it now 10 defeats mainly against park sides. Its absolutely atrocious. This season could soon be a write off. If that is the case and Osborne is serious about us getting back in the National League asap the manager will leave at the end of the season.
Should be a good opportunity to get those injury prone/poor standard players off the wage bill. If the retained list was drawn up now I would be parting with Hall, Lapslie, Martin,Craske, Halstead, Lovett, Dawson, De Silva for starters. There may even be a few more.
Surely a young hungry manager could get in a more fit for purpose squad. Wayne Rooney is completely irrelevant to us. Something needs to change, Johsnon has had a free ride for too long. We need a manager that can earn his wages.
Johnson has been terrible for two and a half seasons. I would say there is every chance that we wont even make the play offs - what a terrible indictment that would be.
The last two matches have shown what a poor side we have been all season. What is it now 10 defeats mainly against park sides. Its absolutely atrocious. This season could soon be a write off. If that is the case and Osborne is serious about us getting back in the National League asap the manager will leave at the end of the season.
Should be a good opportunity to get those injury prone/poor standard players off the wage bill. If the retained list was drawn up now I would be parting with Hall, Lapslie, Martin,Craske, Halstead, Lovett, Dawson, De Silva for starters. There may even be a few more.
Surely a young hungry manager could get in a more fit for purpose squad. Wayne Rooney is completely irrelevant to us. Something needs to change, Johsnon has had a free ride for too long. We need a manager that can earn his wages.
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