brucie wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018, 15:49
... Owers ... has assembled a better squad of players than we had at the start of the season ... this squad of players would have easily been nowhere near the bottom had we started the season with them.
Unfortunately it appears that we were so far behind by the time its al been impossible to catch up.
Excellent! Sounds very much to me like getting the base for next season's excuses in early: "But he had to cope with still having players who were on contract from Nicholson's days," people will whine.
Owers knew what he was taking on (and if he didn't; he should have). He's taken eight months, an improved budget, improved club infrastructure, plus an additional two teams' worth of players to put together this "better squad". I should darn well think it's better.
And as for "so far behind", codswallop. So what? Owers will have had 129 points to play for by the end of the season.
I agree with Brucie(!) the current squad is certainly good enough to comfortably stay in the National League as our position in the current form table shows - 9th.
Owers in his interview today on the OS continues to talk about him assembling his squad for next season and how important that is to him. And he expects players to be giving him answers to contract offers from after the final game.
Soupdragon wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018, 17:14
Excellent! Sounds very much to me like getting the base for next season's excuses in early: "But he had to cope with still having players who were on contract from Nicholson's days," people will whine.
Owers knew what he was taking on (and if he didn't; he should have). He's taken eight months, an improved budget, improved club infrastructure, plus an additional two teams' worth of players to put together this "better squad". I should darn well think it's better.
And as for "so far behind", codswallop. So what? Owers will have had [highlight=yellow]129 points to play for[/highlight] by the end of the season.
Slight hyperbole, it's only 108 + 3 that he inherited, or are you hoping that they will extend the season to give Owers some extra chances ? You're pretty accurate otherwise, unlike Brucie who must either be Owers' agent or his PA: judging by the time that it has taken Owers to produce a team which only now current form would be in mid table, we can presume that the Gulls should be just about safe from relegation this time next year .... assuming that his contract offers to the current squad are accepted. Otherwise it will be more of the same, assuming Owers can find another 30 or so loanees, trialists, hasbeens and neverweres prepared to turn up for a few games in the Torquay shirt, with another relegation dogfight being the most likely scenario
Yes exactly- and even though they train less than we do as part timers in relative terms they do better than we do. If we are properly managed we should bounce back.... Time to stop making excuses - time to get on with it.
the problem will be that players wont come here to play as part timers, its bad enough getting them here to play full time, if this club is to get back in the league then it has to stay full time.
I believe that if we start well next season and look like going back up the crowds will come back even in that league.
people want to see winning football whatever league, Hereford have proved that. they are getting double what they had in the league.
sorry guys but we must send out the right message . stay fulltime and we will get back, go part time then we are finished .
only my opinion of course.
Well, so far nobodys really shown me why I'm wrong or changed my mind.
In fact after hearing Clarke Osbourne on the radio today I am further convinced that these measures are a sensible way forward until the club is sustainable or at least in a division that it should be. We have a league history, a decent ground a fanbase albeit fluctuating.
We pay over the odds in wages to over the hills or wannabes which make never gonna be's, just to drag them down to South Devon and still some cant see the benefits of the point. If we cant get decent players to come here lets go to them. I would rather relocate the training ground and get some bloody good part timers than pay stupid money to make shit so called full timers come here. Keep doing the same old things and you will keep getting the same results.
You are my torquay, my only torquay, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know, just, how much i love you, so don't take my torquay away.
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
brucie wrote: ↑19 Apr 2018, 15:49
- for all the shellacking that Owers gets he has assembled a better squad of players than we had at the start of the season.
Where does this debate go if Owers offers contracts to Young, McGinty, Davis, Klukowski and Keating coupled with next seasons contracted players of Gowling, Pittman, Reid and Clarke. How do we discuss a better squad of players when we may have practically the same squad of players we had at the start of last season.
MellowYellow wrote: ↑21 Apr 2018, 01:08
Where does this debate go if Owers offers contracts to Young, McGinty, Davis, Klukowski and Keating coupled with next seasons contracted players of Gowling, Pittman, Reid and Clarke. How do we discuss a better squad of players when we may have practically the same squad of players we had at the start of last season.
It goes nowhere, although some fools will still try and blame Nicholson. Anyone blaming Nicholson for Owers’s shortcomings next season should be put into forum stocks and have rotten fruit thrown at them.
Ower's and Nicho have failed in equally disastrous proportions, but then everyone loves a good old club legend.
Right back on topic. SHOULD WE MOVE TRAINING BASE AND GO PART TIME?
No. Gulliball made a great point early in the thread about the club losing it's identity, it would, and lets pick Harwell as a training base for argument sake, how long would it be, before Torquay United became Harwell United.
Because of 'logistics' the greater logistical problem you have, the greater the cost of running an operation becomes. When the realisation strikes you still can't attract players from London, because of a potential 2 hours to get to training, let alone for the player to get home again, add in the 8 hours traveling time to and from Torquay on a Tuesday night for evening games.
Yes you could attract players from Reading, Oxford, and probably Swindon, but then they've still got to travel to Torquay, and players will want expenses, to cover their costs of getting to training and match's on top of wages.
So move the training even closer to London, you then lose potential players from further down the M4 corridor, isolate yourselves to London based players, all the same problems above still apply.
Then there's another problem, team spirit, much of that comes from players being in the same area, forming friendships, not all do of course, it comes from traveling together, and rooming together, move the training base you lose all of that.
Another problem could come from, say the coaching staff want to work of some defensive problems, arrive at training to to find, one of your main CB can't make training because he's an IT manager, and they've suffered a major systems breakdown, and other missed his train, or is stuck in traffic.
So when the owners realise moving the training base doesn't solve all the problems, as I've said above how long before the club gets moved lock, stock and barrel to where the training base is, or liquidated.
Elloit Romain is just the type of player we'll need to fill the squad with for the NLS, could the club attract enough of that type of player to Torquay, remaing full time, yes, I believe it can.
Now we are in the National League South we have to consider the fact that there are not very many, if any, full time clubs at our level of lower. That means any current full time players agreeing to join us would have been rejected by just about every other full time club in the country. I'm suspicious of players nearing the end of their careers coming to clubs like ours because they could just be looking for a final pay day and have no commitment to us per se (I think especially of older injury plagued players like Clarke and Gowling who were probably more interested in two years further salary than actually playing).
Any really talented young current semi professionals wanting to chance their arm as full time professionals would surely be more interested in playing as high up the pyramid as they can get.
In short we are only going to be attractive to players who been rejected by just about every full time club in the country. And if staying full time doesn't result in promotion then that is a lot of money down the drain. I think moving the training ground and trying to attract top class semi pros is our only hope.
York are full time in the NLN and they are absolute cack. The fans complaints are just as P78 points out. They aren't good enough for NL football and those that are aren't really bothered about competing. They just want easy cash. Weak as piss and flaky as a greggs pastie are most of the York squad. If they had half the Harrogate squad then they would be in the promotion mix.
How can a club like York with full time players be struggling in mid table in the NLN? Because of the reasons P78 and i point out.
It would just be more money chucked on tossers who don't really give a shit about being successful footballers.
This is where Owers needs to start earning his money and repaying the fans. By identifying players part time for the level, bringing them in and motivating them to succeed.
As for the club losing its identity of we moved the training ground, well the are two occasions in its history when I thought we had lost our identity. The first was the little Chelsea/palm trees era under Dave Webb and the second was the Dave Philips era when the club's infrastructure was stripped out leaving just the first team as the only manifestation of the football club, couldn't even afford a coach for away matches.
Well, all I can say is nothing I have seen, read or heard in the last few days has changed my mind. A fantastic post by Forever TUFC a bit further back did have me questioning and reined me back to 50/50 but now I am definitely 90/10 in favour of taking this radical action because something drastic needs to happen.
If we stay full time we are going to get the same old shit type of players and same old shit type of manager of the last few seasons, or its going to cost us a ridiculous amount of money. Until or if we are back up a league or two then part time players from a more affluent area is surely the way forward.
Like I said, would rather have some bloody good part timers at affordable cost than some shite full time players who are professional in name only.
You are my torquay, my only torquay, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know, just, how much i love you, so don't take my torquay away.
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
