SHOULD WE MOVE TRAINING BASE AND GO PART TIME?

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chunkygull
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SHOULD WE MOVE TRAINING BASE AND GO PART TIME?

Post by chunkygull »

Well then ladies and gents, boys and girls barring a miracle it looks for all to see that our beloved football team is sinking into further depths of despair and to the lowest point of the football pyramid we have ever been. All supporters who bother to show interest and educate themselves as to all things TUFC other than what our wonderful local newspaper or media share or what just occurs on matchdays will have a good idea of how and why we have come to this point.
I dont post often but do read the forums daily, never missing a single post. I get whats happened, we can go back over a decade and point the finger at who we blame. It has been a knock on effect of poor ownership and management regimes with each one successively becoming worse. But we have done all that to death and we need to look at how we can survive the future.

There appear to be a few good people on the forums that seem to know a bit about the inner workings of football, especially in the lower leagues. Regardless of what others think of these peoples opinions I have read much information that I have found interesting and educational.

One suggestion grabbed my interest in particular and at first I was a little outraged and dead against the idea, I spat my tea, swore and harrumphed at such a notion. I was vehemently against this. Moving our training base to a more central location to attract decent players and save money on having to pay a fortune in wages to make them relocate. Have them travel to home matches just on match days. How dare you all I said. :@

I have always got a bit testy and annoyed with the obsession that we have to recruit all our players from outside the area, many seem to feel nobody south of Bristol ever kicked a football before. There must be talent around here surely. However after soaking in some knowledge its clear most talent in the area wouldnt touch us with a bargepole. We have treated the youth prospects with utter contempt over decades, no scouting, players overlooked or just ignored. Anybody half decent is hoovered up by Plymouth, Exeter, both Bristols, Yeovil etc. Or even some talent moves further away and up the pyramid. A club should always look to discover and nurture its own talent but we dont do that do we.

Therefore I have changed my outlook and truly believe as a non league team having to cut its cloth whether its NL or NLS if we are to afford any football talent it is imperative we set up a training base in a suitable location further up the country. I read other day that uncle Clarke is ready to spend money on our current training ground. Well I would say save your money Mr Osbourne because this is what we need to do.

Unless Clarkey wants to spend more money on us therefore putting us tighter in a chokehold.

Only other downside would be if our management and players are 80/90 miles away young Mr Harrop cant keep his beady eye on them can he. Or is that another plus?

Then there is the other issue of full or part time. Well, again I was adamant we need to be a full time club, but now I'm not so sure. When you see the plethora of part time clubs that have whooped us on a regular basis in the last four years you have to ask whether its worth it. There are part time clubs thriving in our current league, in a heady position we can only dream of, all on much lower attendances than we have been achieving. You can argue these clubs are undoubtably better run, and more professional with various extra revenue streams. TUFC could learn a lot from other clubs but nobody involved wants to know. At this moment in time we need to cut expenditure and get our house in order.

Moving training base and going part time go hand in hand I feel. We attract the type of players we need, they dont have to move to the south west, we can also allow them to continue other jobs/careers they have therefore football wages dont have to be so extortionate. I have read examples recently of very good or even outstanding players who are unwilling to go full time and give up their proper job as it is just not in their interest. This could actually work in our favour if we are smart. I would rather have semi pro's like this than wannabe's or has beens masquerading as professionals which is what we have been treated to for many years now.

If we were a football league team I would never suggest such things but unless we do something drastic then nothing will change.

Go on, tell me why I'm wrong.
You are my torquay, my only torquay, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know, just, how much i love you, so don't take my torquay away.
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
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Post by merse btpir »

No; you're not wrong and it is a perfectly feasible plan going forward.

What is about to envelope the club in NLS is going to blitz the bollocks out of staid and traditional thinking~ I don't think many f the fan base appreciate just what lays around the corner.
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

Great post chunky , you been saving up all your kudos for a post like that

Hard to disagree and first time I've put part time and a training base away from the south west in the same equation. Forward thinking and a modern approach.
Where would we be based ? M4 corridor ?
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Post by Gulliball »

Personally I would be against moving any part of the club away from Torquay. There might be advantages to being based in closer proximity to the pool of available players, but there comes a point at which you lose the identity of the football club, which is ultimately what it exists for. If you want to watch the best footballers you just need a subscription to Sky or watch Match of the Day of an evening, but for a club like us there are family, emotional and geographical historical ties that link us to the club and why we support Torquay, going to watch a game on a Saturday afternoon.

In my 20 years of following the club I've seen us in the 3rd tier, 4th tier, 5th tier and soon the 6th tier. I haven't stopped supporting us because we lose a lot of games and relegated quite a lot. What might kill the love is something off-field though - Now, I wouldn't compare this hypothetical situation to something like Wimbledon and MK Dons, but a reasonable comparison might be Cardiff and their colour change from blue to red on the whim of Vincent Tan. There was a civil war between fans that opposed the change and those who didn't care if it meant the owner putting in extra money and getting back into the Premier League. It turned very nasty and personal, and I know lifelong fans who stopped attending and have not been back since.

For us, the owner has said he will fund full-time football for next season. The manager has said next season will be 100% better (which means anywhere between 80 and 98 points...) If they both keep their promises then we'd be right at the top of the league, and there would be no need to contemplate such a drastic step. Being full time in a part-time league should be quite a big advantage if we can make the most of this, and until every other avenue has been exhausted I would be against any move the took any part of Torquay United out of Torquay.
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Post by MellowYellow »

chunkygull wrote: 18 Apr 2018, 18:14 ... but unless we do something drastic then nothing will change.
Go on, tell me why I'm wrong.
Just on that quote alone I cannot say you are wrong. Whether I am for or against part-time, new ground etc. etc. this is all irrelevant now. We are sinking in the mire of our own making so something has to change - as the only thing permanent in life is 'change' lets at least make it drastic.
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Post by Midlandgull »

Its all about nurture not nature. We haven't nurtured any talent in the South West so they are not at our club. Plymouth and Exeter have developed some very good players like Watkins and Gosling for example. These players were not born excellent footballers they were developed by the clubs.

The ultimate goal has to be to have a top quality academy that competes at the highest levels and to have excellent training facilities in the South West.

Setting up a training ground in say London would cost a lot of money and, as others have said, make us lose our identity.
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Post by wodger of awabia »

M4 corridor or London suburbs would be fine as we will be in the NLS, and quite a few teams are local to this area. The trick is to share a training ground and treatment facilities and staff.With crowds of around 1300 we should be able to pay good part time wages.
chunkygull
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Post by chunkygull »

Yes, looking at where the m4 corridor is located then something like that could be ideal, its right in the middle of everywhere.

Cant believe the club havent even considered these options. How many of our so called professionals would get into many other NLS sides, that includes the part time teams. And dont insult me by saying Luke Young.

Like I said, the idea of moving training out of Devon or going part time repulsed me but now after weighing up a lot of info it seems like a no brainer.

Its a shame we couldnt have some very good but obviously expensive pro's alongside some very good semi pro's but that wouldnt work for the training so its one or the other. Plus if the training was in this area the jobs arent exactly well paid are they. Seems like apart from some nice weather a few weeks of the year there isnt much anymore to attract anybody wanting a professional wage to the area. Apart from a bit of weather Torbay with Torquay and Paignton in particular is turning into a proper shit hole.
You are my torquay, my only torquay, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know, just, how much i love you, so don't take my torquay away.
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
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Post by Zippy »

we must stay fulltime, if we go part time we wont attract any decent players, we will just plummet . its not an option I don't think.
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Post by Midlandgull »

It's not long term thinking though Chunky is it? I can see it as a short term fix but long term it doesn't make sense to me. Also what about our existing players who will be based in the South West? How do we nurture the next players etc or do we move the academy up there too? Why should they care about playing for Torquay as youth players? Why not move the whole club as well and do an MK Dons ?
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Post by lucy6lucy »

Zippy wrote: 18 Apr 2018, 19:48 we must stay fulltime, if we go part time we wont attract any decent players, we will just plummet . its not an option I don't think.
We haven't exactly thrived with decent players as a full time unit, have we not already plummeted enough. But next season will be a culture shock
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Post by chunkygull »

Gulliball -your first two paragraphs were pretty much exactly how I felt, I was incensed by the idea of training up country but its all about circumstances and we have to adapt, we need to do something drastic. If we had a winning team I dont think anybody would give a toss where we train. As I said before there are many supporters who apart from what happens on matchdays dont know sod all and arent bothered about sod all. They only know what the Herald tells them, which is guess what...

Midlandgull - I would dearly love to see us bring our own talent through again, it brings that bit more to joy of watching your team, there have been many memorable players come through the ranks but I cant ever see this happening . It makes it even more special to see some local lads given a go but for some reason we over look them, stories of never having scouts at local games are all too regular. Most of our apprentices/academy players down the years werent from the area. But thats another story.
Academies are expensive and out of our league but I wouldnt be against possibly picking up and trying to bring some young lads through each season in the old apprenticeship style if this could work. Thing is we arent going to be bringing any players through any time soon.

It would hopefully be a short term thing to be part time and train elsewhere, hopefully it would get us through these tough times just enough to start building a decent club again that can afford to pay its way.

How would setting up/renting/sharing a ground elsewhere be any more expensive than having one here. Especially if its like Seale Hayne where we spent a shit ton of money on it and still couldnt use it for months.

How many existing players are based in the south west, how many have been lured here by high wages, they obviously came all the way down here for more than they would have got elsewhere. It obviously wasnt for success or winning things. Many stories in recent seasons of our players who never actually moved down and couldnt get away quick enough every chance they got. Anyway, Im not worried about the exisisting players because I hope they all bugger off.

Zippygull - Staying full time and training in this area hasnt exactly worked when it comes to attracting decent players for a long time has it. Word has it there are better part timers than our so called full professionals but they live where the work and wages are I'm afraid.
You are my torquay, my only torquay, you make me happy when skies are grey, you'll never know, just, how much i love you, so don't take my torquay away.
(laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la, - laa, laa, - laaaa, - la, la. - la,la,la,la,la, - la,la,la,la....).
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Post by Gulliball »

chunkygull wrote: 18 Apr 2018, 20:30 Gulliball -your first two paragraphs were pretty much exactly how I felt, I was incensed by the idea of training up country but its all about circumstances and we have to adapt, we need to do something drastic. If we had a winning team I dont think anybody would give a toss where we train. As I said before there are many supporters who apart from what happens on matchdays dont know sod all and arent bothered about sod all. They only know what the Herald tells them, which is guess what...
But nevertheless, people support Torquay because it is their local club, or at the very least it was when they were growing up, or it was for a parent that took them to their first game. There's an emotional connection that's intrinsic to the football club and our strengths lie in that community spirit. I made the same comments last week when discussing the strengths of Kevin Nicholson as manager, but having a professional football team that represents your town is important. Children growing up in Torquay can watch better players on the television, but not in the flesh. Mo Salah won't come to your school or attend your evening training session in the bay. If they players that turn out on a Saturday don't live in the bay or buy into that community initiative then you lose all that. If all you care about is supporting a side that wins you can support Barcelona, and if all you care about is supporting a winning side in Tier 6 then you can support Billericay or Salford easily enough. But I'd say that the majority of our fans don't support us because they expect to win every week - that doesn't mean they don't enjoy it more when we do win - but we've got a lot more to lose by removing the community aspect from TUFC than we have to gain by being a potentially slightly higher Tier 6 side outside of the bay, especially if the owner and manager keep the promises they've made in the last few weeks that would see us at the top of the league anyway.
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Post by Dazza »

Sorry but I think it's the wrong line to be going down. At the very time we are seeking to emphasise to the Council the importance of a local club to give opportunity to supporters and hopefully young players here we are saying we are going to ape ? Barrow... Personally I think it would be a disastrous move to make. We may be in trouble but if this spells big trouble to me. It would be playing right into the owners hand and giving out all sorts of funny signals. If Truro can be in the top six of the National South without such measures surely we can do better and climb back out of that League?
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Post by Jerry »

Dazza wrote: 18 Apr 2018, 21:25 Sorry but I think it's the wrong line to be going down. At the very time we are seeking to emphasise to the Council the importance of a local club to give opportunity to supporters and hopefully young players here we are saying we are going to ape ? Barrow... Personally I think it would be a disastrous move to make. We may be in trouble but if this spells big trouble to me. It would be playing right into the owners hand and giving out all sorts of funny signals. If Truro can be in the top six of the National South without such measures surely we can do better and climb back out of that League?
Don't Truro do exactly this though? I thought they trained in Torquay?
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