The European Union: We're out...!!!

[Gullscorer]

SG Dave:

Happytorq, your response is idiotic.The Scottish Independence Referendum happened because the Scottish National Party, who campaign for Scotland to be independent, won a majority at the last Scottish Parliament election.

The referendum question was: “Should Scotland be an independent country?” and voters were asked to choose ‘yes’ or ‘no’.

Simple as that.

55.3% voted ‘No’ and 44.7% voted ‘Yes’.

And so Scotland remains part of the UK.

Surely that’s clear enough. EU membership is a completely different issue. If some people confused and conflated the two issues, or were so misled by the SNP, that's their problem. They cannot complain and insist upon another referendum simply because they made an error.

Scotland and the other home nations are one united country, much as the nationalists may wish otherwise. And that united country have just decided, by a small but clear majority, to leave the EU. That's democracy.

Such momentous questions should be decided once in a generation. Yet the nationalists seem to want vote after vote, until they get the result they want. And then, presumably, no more votes.

And the mystery remains: why do they want independence from a free and democratic UK, only to give their independence away to an anti-democratic EU? If the Scottish people, at some point in the future, are so misguided by the nationalists that they decide to do this, how would they deal with the consequences? The EU is on the verge of breaking up, with all its economic, social, and political problems. Having rejected the UK, will they then ask the UK to bail them out. I suppose we would..

But what on earth is this isolation you mention? Far from being isolated, an independent UK will be free to engage with the rest of the world in addition to co-operation with our European friends, but without the yoke of the EU political union.

[Dave]

Dave SG

http://www.infowars.com/brexit-dawn-of- ... -uprising/

[Gullscorer]

One of the most disgraceful sights of the referendum has been the young Remain activists booing and insulting Boris Johnson as he left his home this morning. The growing intolerance and bullying behaviour of students these days is a cause for deep concern in our democracy. Doubtless they draw some of their inspiration from the boorish conduct of some politicians, but I suggest much of the blame lies with the pro-EU propaganda and indoctrination they are subjected to in the education system. Distorted history, so-called political correctness, feminist ideology, social 'justice', silencing and censorship, all resulting in the disadvantaging of boys in education, and generations of young people with totalitarian tendencies and behaviour of which Hitler, Stalin, and Mao would have been proud.

[BobBobBob]

It's give and take though. It's not like lies were a monopoly for the remain campaign. It's not escaped my attention that the leave campaign very rapidly washed it hands of the "£350 million a week to the NHS" pledge after it won. Not exactly surprised myself but I wonder how leave voters will take that.

A larger point to spin from this is the vote was very close, it was a harshly fought election and it was a big deal for the 33.5 million of us that voted. We are now a polarised nation. We need to find a way to bridge a gap between those of us who actually liked what the EU stood for versus those who believe the EU represented a march into slavery. We need to find a way to bridge a gap between those of us who like multiculturalism versus those who want to preserve British cultural identity. And in many other ways as well. Is it even possible? I hope so. Seeing as people voted to leave and remain for very different reasons, it's not entirely clear what the country wants to happen next.

It concerns me that the leave campaign didn't have a plan for now. We've just chucked £250 billion pounds into the economy to stop it completely dying on its arse. That would have been enough to pay for 30 years of EU net contributions. I hope that puts the whole "350 million" figure into some perspective in showing how absolutely trivial that cost is. Inflation is likely and that'll make any public spending initiatives much harder to implement. What's the future? Where are we heading? Do leave voters want a left wing government or a right wing government? Corbyn? Jarvis? Johnson? Gove? Farage? Are leave voters going to be upset if we end up in a Norway style agreement that retains laws and regulations from Brussels and of course freedom of movement? Exactly what are we going to do with the Scottish and the Irish? Is the union under threat? Questions!

[Southampton Gull]

It washed its hands because that statement was fabricated by the media. The establishment have pulled out every dirty trick in the book and still lost their precious referendum, the people smell a rat and are slowly waking up to the reality that our government are content to keep sticking it to us. For once we've stuck it to them and now we shall see the full depth of their depravity as they seek to punish us for standing up for our rights.

The money men have simply manipulated the markets to try and scare us and will undoubtedly make things difficult for the average person, don't be fooled into thinking the BofE are doing us any favours, they aren't.
If the Scots want independence from us so bad they're prepared to hand it straight to the EU then let them go right ahead, see how far that gets them, it would be kind of ironic to witness the birth and death of independent Scotland.

[PhilGull]

So a day in and what do we know so far?
Just over one quarter of the population voted to leave the EU.
Most of the out votes were from people so old they will barely be alive to notice any difference.
Most of the in votes were from you people who will most definitely notice a difference.
But you know what? That's democracy and while I voted to remain I can live with the result. If more people had got off their arses and voted maybe it would have been different but we have the result and we need to get on with it. But. I have one big problem.
A lot of people voted out on the back of the promised NHS spending and reduced immigration.
Farrage has admitted that the NHS spending was a lie.
Daniel Hannan has admitted that curbing immigration was a lie and that we will actually need to keep freedom of movement to survive.

So yes. Democracy. It works, but when the electorate is lied to, not so much. To say I am angry is a mild **** understatement. I hope all of you Brexiteers are angry too. We the electorate were lied to. Not for the first time. We need change. Not silly things like leaving the EU but actual, proper, **** change. We still have too many rich, privileged, selfish pricks running this country who don't give a **** about any of us, just so long as them their mates bank balances remain on the up.

[BobBobBob]

It washed its hands because that statement was fabricated by the media. The establishment have pulled out every dirty trick in the book and still lost their precious referendum, the people smell a rat and are slowly waking up to the reality that our government are content to keep sticking it to us. For once we've stuck it to them and now we shall see the full depth of their depravity as they seek to punish us for standing up for our rights.

The money men have simply manipulated the markets to try and scare us and will undoubtedly make things difficult for the average person, don't be fooled into thinking the BofE are doing us any favours, they aren't.
If the Scots want independence from us so bad they're prepared to hand it straight to the EU then let them go right ahead, see how far that gets them, it would be kind of ironic to witness the birth and death of independent Scotland.

The statement about the NHS was repeated in this thread by leave voters and even written on the side of Boris Johnson's bus. It is without doubt that the statement encouraged more people to vote leave than it encouraged people to vote remain. Why on earth would a force acting in the hope of staying fabricate something that would lead to more people voting to leave? That isn't logically consistent.

The money men aren't that smart, I'm afraid. They're irrational just like the rest of us. I'd say perhaps even more so, but probably not as irrational as your post. This market reaction is pure panic mode because literally all we've done so far is had a non-legally binding vote. We have not yet begun article 50 and it doesn't look like we intend to for a while. I suspect no Prime Minister is going to want to push that red button out of pure fear. They will probably use a general election to get a mandate to not press it. This is why I asked leave voters in this thread exactly what the plan is. What do people want? What do you want to happen?

And your view on Scotland belies your own conspiracy theory. On one hand, we've left the EU to great economic punishment from the establishment. Yet on the other you seem to think that Scotland will fail if it returns to the EU. Surely your evil money men will do everything in their power to ensure that an independent Scotland in the EU outperforms the rest of the UK.

[Plainmoor78]

both philgull and bobbobbob

[Gullscorer]

Philgull, this is what makes me angry: you point out what you believe are the lies of Hannan and Farage, when the truth is that those parts of their campaign were just misrepresented as lies by the media interviewers. And you do not, of course, mention the actual lies put to the British people by the likes of Cameron and Osborne in the ‘Remain’ campaign. To suggest that Farage and Hannan were lying, or admitted to lying, is an outrageous lie, and that makes me really angry.

Hannan never claimed that immigration would immediately be cut or controlled. Immigration cannot be controlled until we actually leave the EU, before which there could be two or more years of the leaving process to endure. This will all take time, and Hannan never suggested otherwise.

And Farage’s £350 million a week figure we give to the EU is gross, not net. But it is indeed given to the EU. Yes the EU gives some of it back to the UK, but the whole point is that it’s the EU who controls it and decides to whom it is given, and how much, and on what terms, and insists on taking the credit.

You see, it’s easy to claim your opponent is lying, if you take some of his statement out of context and twist and distort it, and add it to lies of your own. That’s what the media and the Remain campaign did, and it makes me angry.

[Gullscorer]

There was a time not that long ago when the pound was almost at parity with the Dollar and the Euro. But the world did not end. Stock markets and currencies will fluctuate as financial speculators do their thing, either anticipating or in response to events; that's to be expected, and life goes on. But there will be more turbulence ahead. The Eurocrats will try their best to keep the lid on the kettle in the face of growing demands for further referendums in other EU countries, but the EU itself is in deep trouble and may not survive.

Bob does have a point though: We are a divided country, more polarised on the EU question than on any other important issue in modern times. Future events will either heal or maintain the rift, but whatever happens will do so over a period of time. And the only way to ensure the best possible future for our country is for all people of goodwill to pull together and take advantage of the opportunities which open up for us, both in Europe and worldwide. We have rejected the EU, but are not abandoning Europe, and we will also nurture closer ties with the Commonwealth and other major world economies.

What is needed now is for somebody such as Daniel Hannan to be elected Conservative leader, who will then begin the process of exit from the EU. But if Conservative (and indeed Labour) divisions cannot be healed, an early general election is a possibility.

If that happens, I foresee massive losses for Labour, and huge gains for UKIP, perhaps even resulting in a National Coalition Government headed by Nigel Farage as Prime Minister.

[Trojan 67]

Whatever the result, the bitter and twisted recriminations were sure to follow. This is expected from grazing cattle who have failed to see through the "First Veil".

Meanwhile, secret society personnel hiding within the society of secrets continue to be found and neutralised. An ongoing process it is.

o:)

[Gullscorer]

I'm amazed at how many Remain supporters refuse to accept the democratic will of the people, from the SNP leader Sturgeon who wants a second Independence referendum to the young students who have petitioned for another EU referendum and appear to have no understanding of the real meaning of democracy.

Nigel Farage has secured his place in British political history. He deserves, at the very least, a knighthood, and a statue in Parliament Square.

[PhilGull]

So if you knew the 350 million quid was not real and couldn't be spent on the NHS or anything else. If you knew that freedom of movement with the EU would continue why exactly did you vote to leave?
I'm interested to know why people voted to leave. I've seen a lot of interviews with people saying they already regret their decision.

[BobBobBob]

Nigel Farage has secured his place in British political history. He deserves, at the very least, a knighthood, and a statue in Parliament Square.

For dividing up the country and potentially breaking up the Union? He deserves the Nobel Peace prize if Ireland successfully reunites.

There was a time not that long ago when the pound was almost at parity with the Dollar and the Euro. But the world did not end. Stock markets and currencies will fluctuate as financial speculators do their thing, either anticipating or in response to events; that's to be expected, and life goes on. But there will be more turbulence ahead. The Eurocrats will try their best to keep the lid on the kettle in the face of growing demands for further referendums in other EU countries, but the EU itself is in deep trouble and may not survive.

I'm not predicting the end of the world, but the pound has been hit hard. That will result in higher import prices and as a result inflation. This should give an idea of how volatile things are going to be for the short to medium term. This is the uncertainty the remain camp warned of. You previously dismissed it as lies, now you are dismissing it as unimportant. It's going to be difficult to count on the support of other countries if we've just precipitated a depression.

Great article of what may be to come: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... varoufakis

So if you knew the 350 million quid was not real and couldn't be spent on the NHS or anything else. If you knew that freedom of movement with the EU would continue why exactly did you vote to leave?
I'm interested to know why people voted to leave. I've seen a lot of interviews with people saying they already regret their decision.

I think we've already heard the answer to this. It's to stop us from "marching into slavery".

[Scott Brehaut]

Perhaps somebody can show me on this picture exactly where it says that all the money would be spent on the NHS please, because I'm struggling to see that.