Give Hargreaves A Chance

[AustrianAndyGull]

No we weren't Chris. All of us expected the bloke to have some sort of rawness and edge to his management like we saw as a player. On top of this the use of basic common sense. If we got this then we'd be safe. What we got is a dithering scaredy cat. Afraid of the task that he convinced the board he was up to. It was soon apparent that we had made a mistake appointing him but he should have and was at least afforded the opportunity to show the fans that he meant business. The reason it hasn't worked out is because the extra 20% that was needed to eke out a bit more from a squad of piss takers was not achieved. Basically I thought I was getting a no nonsense, bold but intelligent football manager but what I ended up with was a bore in essence. Scared to take risks, scared to make different decisions and happy to suck it and see. Boring, predictable and anyone could have managed us these last 4 months. We needed a leader, we got another sheep.

[Burnhamgull]

That's kind of what I'm saying, Hargreaves is inept and was a bad appointment. He's done nothing since taking over.

Unfortunately many on here wanted him to return as some sort of white knight. Torquay legend etc........dangerous to return and ruin a reputation but Hargreaves has done a great job at wrecking his reputation with the Yellow Army.

Biggest mistake he made was to heavily criticise his predecessor. You've got to be very very good to do that.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Not if your predecessor is Alan Knill though.........

[Scott Brehaut]

We had precious little money before we got rid of Ling - he was told he would have to "build from within" which he was attempting to do before he got ill, the the Board suddenly found money to crassly pay him off citing footballing reasons.
Enter Juan Knill - given a budget with within he signed a load of old shit (granted hindsight is a wonderful thing), then no money is produced to assist him with getting us out of the shit.
Again, the Board suddenly find some money down the sofa and pay off Juan. Enter Chris Hargreaves - given even less money and tries (and almost certainly, barring the biggest miracle since time began) to stop us from being relegated.
Now fans want us to get rid of him too.

Not sure if you've followed the pattern above but, in case you haven't, WE HAVE NO MONEY!!!!

Basically, we need a huge clear out next season and Greavsie will be scratching around hoping to sign people that are willing to play for two shillings and ha'penny, whilst the likes of Hawley sit on their arse for another season earning more in a week than I earn in a month.

So, it's money that's the issue - it's running out, and there appears to be nobody around that is willing or able to help out.

[tommyg]

Why does he deserve the chance to build his own team tommy?

Knill had the chance to do this when he kept us up but many questioned why when based upon what they had seen there still should have been a thorough recruitment process.

I'm saying the same about CH. He has had 4 months and although I'm sure many of you will fondly remember the
win at Pompey, other than that he has been an atrocious appointment.

Give him a chance by all means but forfeit your chance to complain when it could go permanently wrong next season. Get it wrong next season and there could be no club left. I'm sorry but I've seen no evidence from CH to suggest he is prepared to excrete blood to get results. It isn't worth the risk but if we're stuck with him then it would just be indicative of a board that couldn't find their arse with both hands. If we're stuck with CH then we have to accept that the likelihood of us completely bombing and ending in the conf south is the same as him turning things around sufficiently at the club which is the scenario that many of you are expecting.

I just don't think that some folk quite appreciate the gravity of the situation next season. A total rookie with 4 months of shocking decision making under his belt doesn't quite fill me with the confidence I had when he took charge. I didn't expect miracles but I reasonably expected a lot more than I got from CH and for that reason his appointment I foresee is a huge mistake.

I don't believe you can judge a manager after 18 games, especially when it's his first job and he's working with the bulk of a squad he has inherited. Besides, we can't afford to pay him (and presumably Hodges) off and then appoint a new manager and assistant. And even if we could, there's no guarantee the next man will turn it around and we'll be having the same conversation in four months' time.

[AustrianAndyGull]

He had the chance to throw everything at this from day one just like a fans would have and we've ended up going down with a whimper and a free pint if we went to Hartlepool. Unacceptable.

[AustrianAndyGull]

We're going to be under pressure next season and like Scott says, we will be scrabbling around for youth and old drags because we have no cash and expecting CH to put together a competitive side who play decent football. If you think CH is up to achieving this then good luck to you. He might very well be but the pressure is one from day one. He has had 3 months of pressure already and failed and now has had a few games without pressure because we're already down and still failed.

[SuperNickyWroe]

We had precious little money before we got rid of Ling - he was told he would have to "build from within" which he was attempting to do before he got ill, the the Board suddenly found money to crassly pay him off citing footballing reasons.
Enter Juan Knill - given a budget with within he signed a load of old sh*t (granted hindsight is a wonderful thing), then no money is produced to assist him with getting us out of the sh*t.
Again, the Board suddenly find some money down the sofa and pay off Juan. Enter Chris Hargreaves - given even less money and tries (and almost certainly, barring the biggest miracle since time began) to stop us from being relegated.
Now fans want us to get rid of him too.

Not sure if you've followed the pattern above but, in case you haven't, WE HAVE NO MONEY!!!!

Basically, we need a huge clear out next season and Greavsie will be scratching around hoping to sign people that are willing to play for two shillings and ha'penny, whilst the likes of Hawley sit on their arse for another season earning more in a week than I earn in a month.

So, it's money that's the issue - it's running out, and there appears to be nobody around that is willing or able to help out.

the problem i have scott, is that after he slagged off knill on tv he got the job.

money or not, hes still managed to sign crap - stevens <cough> loanees that didnt even play <cough>

the thing that p155e5 me off is the fact that apparently he was the best candidate for the job.

when i heard that i knew we were in the sh*t.

[tommyg]

Let's pretend Thea finds £100,000 behind the sofa and uses it to sack Hargreaves, then finds another £100,000 under her bed to appoint a new manager who gets off to a poor start next season. How long then before you call for his head? We haven't got the money to sack two or three managers a year. I understand your frustration and I'm not saying Hargreaves hasn't been an underwhelming appointment so far, but he hasn't been given a chance to make this squad his own. Nine of the starting XI on Friday were signed by his predecessors. He's still working with what is largely Knill's team and Ling's leftovers.

[Dave]

We were 1 point off safety when Chris Hargreaves turned up. He re-signed Stevens a player than some random 80 year old woman who's never been to a football match could have identified as no longer good enough for the football league, not only did he do that he then consistently put him in the squad/team ahead of Chapell, our top goalscorer and most consistent attacking threat, and some fans wonder why he looks disinterested...DOH.

It didn't take long for CH to return tugboat to left back and persist with him for how many games, and still hasn't figured out the fix to the right back problem, how many points have these two positions cost us, and my biggest gripe of all, how many times do we get into good attacking positions, how many times do we fail to shoot, how many times do we see the ball played across the 6 yard box and no Torquay player anywhere near.

Simple fix's, on the training ground, we have video analysis , have team meetings after training watch the videos back and discuss with the team, look at issues where we've conceded soft goals, look at issues where we've failed to get shots off or turned good attacking pressure into goals, all basic stuff.

Been in the job since January failed to fix basic problems, and by and large has taken us backwards, yep I'm concerned.

[Sunnysideup]

We know our salary bill last year was £1.5 million so we are obviously paying some players that sort of amount.

Not particularly aimed at you Mid, but there is some utter drivel posted on here about budgets and pay packets.
Last years quoted £1.5m was the entire salary bill at the club. For what its worth, the on-field side of it was £1.2m.
This seasons playing budget has already been "outed" in an interview as £1.1m. That works out as an average of around 45k per contracted player (25 is it?). Some will earn more than that, some will earn less.
Broadly speaking, the higher earners at the club (10 or 11) are on something along the lines of 60 to 80k.
That might sound a lot compared to someone flipping burgers in a takeaway, but as already pointed out by Mid, it's not that unusually high a salary.

[Mattpuma]

60-80k might not seem much to you but it is still 4 or 5 times the wages of our average supporter who pays over his/her hard earned cash to support the team. For that sort of wage the least we should expect is 100% commitment from the team, but all we have seen is lacklustre performances devoid of any passion. Every game I expect us to tear into the opposition and fight for our lives. But no its just go through the motions. When do our players pressure the opponents? If only we had a team of Pearces and O'Connors we would have survived. Instead we have powderpuff posers like Bodin and Stevens.

[BayGull]

Basically, we need a huge clear out next season ........

You are so right Scott, but not only on the field, also within the realms of the staff at Plainmoor.
Currently TUFC must have the biggest back room set-up of all times .... costing thousands of pounds in wages and getting the club absolutely nowhere.

Relegation is the time to get rid of all the 'hangers-on' and wastes of space, of which there are many. Every official post seems to have an official assistant and an official assistants assistant.

Sack them all and concentrate funds on the playing staff.

[hector]

Each time there has been a managerial vacancy since Buckle left, there have been supporters clamouring for Hargreaves to get the job, whilst a year ago, the bulk seemed to following like lemmings walking off a cliff, when shouting for Alan Knill. The club have played the 'appeasing supporters' card each time and each time it has not worked out.

The club made the right decision in getting rid of Knill. He is more culpable than Hargreaves for this sorry season because he set the tone for failure with the shambolic pre-season, the poor signings (other than Pearce) and his absolute failure to get the team to play. Right back to that home game v Wimbledon we were waiting for things to supposedly 'click into place'. But with these players it didn't and it never will.

Knill didn't have to sign Benyon and he didn't have to sign his no.1 target, Hawley. That signed our death warrant really, when using them as your main forwards plus playing 'cutting it fine' with whatever loanee you could get. If Knill was as uninspiring as he came across on the radio, then the football his teams produced certainly lived up to the drab, pedestrian, playing without an ounce of oompth or urgency.

Knill should have gone in the autumn.

Sturrock/Allen or someone similar should have come in.

When Knill went it seems the club, thinking like fans did the 'get a popular old hero in'.

How often do we see clubs fall for this? Newcastle with Keegan and the clamour for Shearer. Liverpool with Dalglish. And lower down the pecking order you see it happen and it rarely works because simply playing for a club does not qualify you for management.

However, all successful managers start somewhere and what you would hope for, from a rookie, is someone who is intelligent, is a student of the game, has some charisma. If someone was going to make a decent manager, then like many thought about Nicky Forster, Hargreaves possibly had those credentials.

My fear was that he would be out of his depth a little/lot.

It wasn't that long ago he was running a shop in Sidmouth and coaching the kids at Exeter City. He appears to have had a rapid rise at Bournemouth but I think his role with the first team has been overplayed a little. So I think it has happened for him a bit too early at Torquay.

It should have been Sturrock. It sounds as though we could have had Sturrock. IT could have been Sturrock with Hargreaves as his no.2 being groomed to take over when the waters were less choppy, with Sturrock taking on a DoF role afterwards. That would have set us for some stability and possible success.

In my mind - and it is a guess - the added complication of Northampton's interest in Hargreaves, is what maybe pushed the club to act quickly and offer him the manager's post on 2 or 2 and half year deal. Never has the 'act in haste, repent in leisure' adage been better illustrated than our clubs last two rushed managerial appointments.

Now all that has happened is a potentially promising managerial career is almost over before it has started. Hargreaves credibility with the fanbase is shot and it may not all necessarily be his fault - he was dealt a shoddy hand but he hasn't helped himself by signings Stevens, swapping and swithcing the team every game. I'm not sure how he can recover, unless he embarks on a very obvious promotion challenge from the start, in the way Buckle did, the last time we were down there.

As Hargreaves keeps pointing out - when he does speak to the radio - his remit was to keep them up (well, that's gone) or get them back up. We will probably know by the end of September whether that is likely and if the team carries on into next season as they are finishing this one, then I expect he will be gone by then as well.

With the basis of the squad that is likely to be here (if they - contracted players - all stay), I think we just probably need a forward and someone with a bit of guile in midfield to have a reasonable chance of pushing for the play-offs. I don't rate Tonge but surely he can cope with what the Conference offers, same with Downes and Harding. I don't think Hawley or Benyon will be the answer.

I don't think the club can sack Hargreaves - although you do see clubs who would have done - even after this short a time but by the Autumn we will know if it is time for him to go. Like Alan Knill, he has taking on a poor team but he is going into the new season without any of the goodwill that even Alan Knill had, which demonstrates an enormous turnaround in a figure that had pots of goodwill in his direction prior to his role as manager. For him to be the recipient now of distrust and - it seems, from many - a fair bit of abuse, illustrates the lack of faith people now have in him.

Had the board done the obvious thing in January and appointed an overseer then Hargreaves managerial career may not have been over before it started because if he lost this job its unlikely he would get another one.

[frenchgull]

Mr Hodges seems to have escaped the radar of criticism, what dose he bring to the table,dose he have football league experience as player or manager,what is his input to Chris Hargreeves,shurly the better option is to get shot of him and put his money towards an expierenced' person who can work alongside Hargreeves and instill some good practice,teaching Hargreeves on the way.Mr Hargreeves might buck at the idea thinking that he is the manager but in business this is what you would do if you thought the present manager had potential but needed help NOW.