Balance of the Team

[Dave]

I don't like Matt's idea one bit, play that way we would/could be torn to shreds. What happens if you come up against a side with quick wingers (as many teams have), all of a sudden Manse isn't going box to box and Lathrope isn't anchoring midfield because they have both been pushed back, because the other team are using their pace to constantly get in behind us.

And now, because 2 of your 5 midfielders have effectly been taken out of the game your being totaly over run, any formation, game plan can look great on paper, however in a football match sadly there are two teams, and the other team can be/are just as clever as you.

This isn't the champions league, best was forward keep it simple play to your own strenghts. At the moment we have not given it time to settle and I am sure 12 games in, if things arn't working AK will change things.

[royalgull]

This isn't Championship manager and all these fancy formations and ideas that suddenly all would go swimmingly if we changed just one thing is crackers.

It would help if we played our ebst team and had people in the right positions. It is frightening that anyone could think Chappell isn't our best winger, he should be starting every game and this notion of right siders on the left and left siders on the right is complete bobbins as well. I can understand the thought of them cutting inside to get a shot away on their favoured foot but the problems far outweight that possible gain. For someone as left footed as Cameron it makes dribbling with the ball that much harder when he's running down the right and it makes getting crosses in that much harder as well because he is uncomfortable on his right foot. We had Rene Howe we've now got Callum Ball and neither have had many chances from good crosses from our wingers that they can head towards goal.

Our midfield hasn't been improved by Harding yet, maybe he needs more games but from his pedigree and size I was expecting a lot more than what i've seen in these first few games. Mansell is a tryer and he looks better next to someone with a bit of compusure and quality and thus far HArding hasn't provided that. I'm still hopeful that he will prove to be a reasonable player for us. You can't play 200 odd games in this division and be totally hopeless.

Defensively I worry about us simply because every team we've played has had 3, 4 , 5 chances on our goal, this could be because of the lack of protection from the midfieldm especially withy oungwingers with little interest in the defensive side of the game but also down to Pearce 'bedding in' similarly to Saah.

It's just a combination of different things, we aren't dreadful, I don't think we'll be near the bottom after 46 games because we have a much better squad than this time last season but we just need more out of certain individuals and we need our illustrious manager (4 wins out of 18 games) to actually start playing our best team in their correct positions.

[chunkygull]

Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes.

Brian Clough

i agree with cloughie too many managers/coaches fiddle about and over-do it with various systems and tactics these days. obviously you need strategy, systems and tactics to make your team solid and cohesive and to combat the other team but its like a lot of them are trying too hard to make themselves look clever and football geniuses. too many of them are trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak.

too many managers/coaches are too afraid of losing rather than trying everything to go out for the win. if you are just trying not to lose surely this negative thought sets you up for failure.

they dont trust their players enough to do what they do and to express theirselves with their talent and skills. allowing players to think for themselves, use a bit of their individuality in games and to be allowed to do the things they do well can only be a positive and produce the required results.

but, it does help if you pick the right team for each individual match and play the players in their correct position, if they dont fit the system then they dont play, if the players are too good to drop then you fit the system around the players.there does not seem to be enough bravery or boldness to try different things or to drop certain players to try something new if things arent working. it does not bode well if a manager/coach keeps playing the same old favourites every game regardless of how they are playing or whats best for the team.

i.e. if a team has a lot of pace down the right wing why play your slowest left back?

one thing i cant ever understand is when all the training and preparation is done, the tactics and game plan are set out, the players are put in position and told what there job is, and all of a sudden the ball is hoofed constantly and aimlessly up the pitch for 90 minutes hoping for the best. is this a tactic?

many times when watching games at plainmoor down the years we have seen torquay teams or individual players do this constantly and many of us confering can only ask, what the bloody hell do they do in training all week?

this cannot be a tactic surely. how hard can it be to pass the ball on the deck to your team mate. this is the simplest most basic fundamental in football. and it is also the most effective, potent, productive, difficult to defend against style of play.

"football on the deck will beat ya every time"
old timer on the pop

very true!

its the first thing you are taught about playing the game when you are a little kid. these guys are supposed to be professionals and have probably played since they were 6 or 7 so why do they just boot the ball up in the air.

surely its harder and more tiring to constantly boot the ball in the air rather than make a shorter pass along the ground. its certainly harder and more tiring for the players trying to receive or win the ball and bring it under control.

when players just start booting the ball in the air constantly and its not part of the manager/coaches game plan then surely that must say that the player hasnt got a clue or he is badly lacking in confidence. this is then still down to the manager/coach who's job it is to change the situation when things arent working or going well.

If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."

Brian Clough.

[ferrarilover]

I hate to pick one thing from such a big part, Ian, but conceding 3 chances (or even 5) in an hour and a half really oughtn't be cause for concern. You'd be well upset (and rightly so) if we were only creating 3 chances a game. We restricted Oxford to three chances, and none in the first half, they scored with each. Under normal circumstances, we'd have won to nil.

Matt.

[frenchgull]

Passing the ball to a team mate seems the easiest thing in the world,problem is if there is no movement by your players then a hoof up field seem the only option problem, is the ball comes right back at you.movement is the name of the game.

[royalgull]

I hate to pick one thing from such a big part, Ian, but conceding 3 chances (or even 5) in an hour and a half really oughtn't be cause for concern. You'd be well upset (and rightly so) if we were only creating 3 chances a game. We restricted Oxford to three chances, and none in the first half, they scored with each. Under normal circumstances, we'd have won to nil.

Matt.

Didn't see the Oxford game mate but the 2 I have seen Rice has literally stopped it being ridiculous.

Our defending for all 3 goals on Saturday was inept really, if BRanston had been playing goals 1 and 2 would never have happened as we'd have been far more organised from a set piece and he'd have put his bonce on that hopeful punt which led to constable's immense volley.

Even the 3rd goal we were non existant reacting to the loose ball. Think maybe we just lack a voice and bit of organisation in that back 4, for me I'd have played Manse right back saturday and brought Lathrope in, I know he doesn't want to play there but for the good of the team on a one off I think he'd have been better suited.

Going saturday where we'll get hit with a bigger aerial bombardment than Pearl Harbour, if we aren't switched on and organised there we'll get done comfortably.

[yellowforever]

The original poster has got a lot of things bang on here. The balance of Harding and Mansell is very worrying. We look vaguely solid (unless a competent winger is running at Nico), but unable to create and score.

[chunkygull]

Passing the ball to a team mate seems the easiest thing in the world,problem is if there is no movement by your players then a hoof up field seem the only option problem, is the ball comes right back at you.movement is the name of the game.

agreed, the key is the movement. but all too often there are many players who make runs, move into good positions, find space and do their job by being where they should be. but still there are the same culprits who waste passes, choose the wrong option or hoof the ball up the line, up the middle or aimlessly anywhere hoping for the best.

if hoofball is the tactic then there is still an accuracy and strategy to it. players still need to move and take up position, the providers need to know areas where to drop the ball in. but 90% of hoofing i see at plainmoor is aimless.

[Dave]

Didn't see the Oxford game mate but the 2 I have seen Rice has literally stopped it being ridiculous.

Our defending for all 3 goals on Saturday was inept really, if BRanston had been playing goals 1 and 2 would never have happened as we'd have been far more organised from a set piece and he'd have put his bonce on that hopeful punt which led to constable's immense volley.

Even the 3rd goal we were non existant reacting to the loose ball. Think maybe we just lack a voice and bit of organisation in that back 4, for me I'd have played Manse right back saturday and brought Lathrope in, I know he doesn't want to play there but for the good of the team on a one off I think he'd have been better suited.

Going saturday where we'll get hit with a bigger aerial bombardment than Pearl Harbour, if we aren't switched on and organised there we'll get done comfortably.

Totaly agree Ian.

As a general point, for a start we are 3 games into the new season with a virtually brand new team, the face of our back 4 has changed, Tonge and Pearce are new players, the first thing is to understand it can/does take time for new players to settle, and time for defensive partnerships to build.

Matt it was your suggestion to go 3-5-2 likely outcome with our team, conceeded not 5 chances, but more like 10 per hour ,and why ? So early into the new season, 3-5-2 for a start you need very good players capable of holding on to possession, we have not got that. Ian's is right, all that needs to happen on the training ground is to work on reinforcing defensive shape and organization, and give new players not just defenders time to settle.

What is not needed is 3-5-2, 5-3-2, 4-1-4-1, here there and every god damn where formations with added christmas tree's.

[Fonda]

Not sure 3 games in is the time to panic. We have a lot of new players and at the moment it's showing. Oxford didn't look significantly better than us - but they did look far more cohesive at times. They were not a group of individuals finding out about each other, and that is what we are currently.

Harding is getting a hard time here, and understandably so i guess, hes hardly set the world alight. But he is, what he is - a functional, minimal fuss, midfielder. He's never going to be particularly eye-catching, but when his feet are more firmly under the table, I'm sure he'll prove more effective. For me, Pearce is struggling equally as much. Downes was doing the job of 2 men against Oxford. But give it another month and they will hopefully function well together.

In terms of the make-up of that midfield, I agree to a point about the lack of a 'play-maker', but quite honestly in a 4-4-2, in this division, you can't justify having one. If you've got Craig + 2 wingers in a midfield 4, you are giving a rediculous amount of work to one other (be that Manse or Harding). Knill has chosen that the central pair will graft and the inspiration will come from the wide-men. It's a pretty sensible, 'safe' choice, and just needs time. Of the personel, I agree Chappell has to be in the side. He consistently poses most threat. I also saw the shoots of some confidence in Bodin on Saturday. I'd have those two with Cameron coming off the bench.

The only other thing I'm personally struggling to understand is the continued selection of Nico. Cruise gave a far more assured performance than him on Saturday - from the wrong side of the pitch. When Tonge is back, I'd have Cruise on the opposite side. Other than that, carry on. And in a month we'll be far more cohesive and the results will follow. The players are good enough.

[teeboo100]

some good posts on this thread i have to say for what its worth i think its a total no brainer knill is a decent manager end of however his continued support of mansell and nico baffles me totally neither are worth there places craig has his critics but he is young raw and eager to learn he can also pass the ball and is very good from set pieces he has to come into this side instead of mansell. cruise is so one footed its
unreal yet he did a far better job on the right than nico did on the left on sat he must be bought in and given a run of games if he fails then we need another full back cos quite simply put nico is completely gone. nico was never in the side for his defending which has always been dreadful he was in there for good free kicks set plays and long throws. We have despenced with long throws he cant hit a barn door from free kicks and set plays are a joke he keeps wacking the ball way to far there simply no use for him in this team. Its sad i know because these 2 lads have been the backdrop of the club for years but football must move on i was actually a bit surprised that they wernt paid up in the summer. Even though maby its time to let them both out on loan somewhere and free up a bit of cash to get another body in

[chunkygull]

blimey. a few people on here might find those words a bit harsh, but i have to agree.

theres no room for sentiment and favouritism in football and its time for both players to move over and somebody else to have a go.

i said it last season about both of them. mansell is passionate and gets fired up but other than thats its all toil and huff and puff. his passing 80% of the time goes to the other team. just because he is captain doesnt mean he cant be dropped. it might even just give him a kick up the arse he needs.

as for nicho, nothing i can add to what has been said, no point getting on his back, its not his fault, he doesnt pick himself. all i can say is thank you for your services nicho, but its time to give young cruise a go.

[Fonda]

Manse isn't in great form, but do think it's far too early to be writing him off. Have to say too, if he was to be left out, I'm almost certain it'd be Lathrope that would be drafted in. Craig + 2 wingers in a 4-4-2? It's fanciful. I like Craig as a footballer, but I think we'd only truely see his worth in a midfield 3.

[chunkygull]

im not saying write him off. its not about being too early though, im going by last season also.

it sounds like there needs to be a few tweaks and adjustments made. taking time to gel or not, poor form and results can become a habit very quickly. just look at last season.

im not criticising knill it is too early for that but he does seem to be unwilling to make a few changes or to try something different. settling for the safe option. doesnt always work though does it.

he tried a few different things in pre season and even in the friendly last week by the sounds of it and there were some positives. so why not change things up for a league match, as people keep saying its still early yet, 43 games to go, so surely he doesnt yet know his best 11 and if he is going to tweak it would be better now whilst there is a long way to go.

[Fonda]

We've played 3 (league) games. And whilst we've not won, we've only been beaten once. It's hardly definitive proof that his preferred team isn't going to work. It's about forming partnerships. It will take time, and continuity is a part of that. If, in 4 or 5 weeks time, there has been no improvement, changes might be contemplated. But not yet in my opinion.