World Cup Thread

[Gullscorer]

What makes you think that? What's to revel about?

As for sad, I gave up feeling sad about the England team years ago.

Nope, when it comes to England, I've not had any emotions for a long time. But unlike many people I've always tried to look at things with a degree of realism..

[Dave]

Slightly misguided realism if you ask me. Just a few thoughts from me, when it comes to England and world cups despite what the media and the general public by and large large say, the expectations will never be low, and that's been shown by what I've seen written across the net, on social media and forums not just club ones in general, England are going out in the group stages, so are world and double European champions Spain, we don't have the right to succeed.

I've never been so chilled going into a world cup as an England fan, I believed from the day we qualified this world cup would come to early for this current England side. Which is, to be fair at a crossroads, with players either at the end of their careers, or kids not fully developed, couple with players in the middle who just are not good enough.

There has been some positives for me, Sterling v Italy, showed his inexperience tonight, but only 19, and Barkley at 20 both have emerged as potentially very talented English players, we do have some coming through, not enough though, agree with the sentiment, it is time for a limit on foreign players, it's taken Southampton's rise from DIV 3 to provide a fair base of this current team, all the evidence you need of English players very nearly lost to the national team.

Think anyone of half an once of footballing sense knew our back 5 was a real concern. Joe Hart has gone from being young keeper with the potential to become a world great, to a coco the clown impersonator, employed the most bizarre tactic from corners tonight that I've not seen in any goalkeeping coaching manual, and despite being nearly embarrassed twice continued to do so, Johnson just WTF was he doing there, rather have seen Stones play would have been more productive, Jagielka not good enough , no one else, Baines, see Jagielka.

All in all Hodgson's done a great job with the England team, blooded young players, we'll go into the next world cup with a lot of players in their mid 20's and tournament hardened, but he can only do a job with what he has, youth development football is going the right way at all levels from grassroots to full professional academies, just need clubs at the top to be forced in to using our own players, but hey the champions league demands only the best, and at the moment that's not English.

[Southampton Gull]

What makes you think that? What's to revel about?

As for sad, I gave up feeling sad about the England team years ago.

Nope, when it comes to England, I've not had any emotions for a long time. But unlike many people I've always tried to look at things with a degree of realism..

Don't mistake your pessimism for realism. There was a fine line between England winning both games rather than losing them. Played well in patches but ultimately let down by the final ball and some poor finishing.

The realists realised it was never about this world cup but trying to build for the future and blood players along the way. We have the nucleus of a decent young side, what we now need is a finisher with the ability of a Suarez or a Balotelli, those two are why we languish bottom of our group.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

Going out earlier should at least mean it will accelerate the changes that are needed to create a team that will help us qualify for the European championship-and hopefully do well there.Time to get rid of the "old guard" and trust the younger players.Baines and Johnson aren't good enough,nor is Jagielka.If Costa Rica is a "dead rubber",then lets see Shaw,Barkley,Oxlade-Chamberlain &Sterling start.To get the best out of our younger players and develop the style of play which will enable us to compete against the best we will need to change Hodgson in a couple of years and bring in Brendon Rodgers or Martinez if we can lure them away from their premiership teams.

[gullintwoplaces]

Forza Italia!!

[Behind-the-Gulls]

What makes you think that? What's to revel about?

As for sad, I gave up feeling sad about the England team years ago.

Nope, when it comes to England, I've not had any emotions for a long time. But unlike many people I've always tried to look at things with a degree of realism..

How do you do that,though,Gullscorer? I end up totally disillusioned,deflated and let-down watching England at every Euro championship and World Cup.
We never learn the lessons and there's always a totally misplaced air of optimism prior to the start of these tournaments-for some reason I and millions of others fall for it.I'm English and proud and long to see my country succeed.I get nervous before the matches,despondent during them(more often than not) ,celebrate madly when we score,and then get totally depressed after(another) defeat. The problem is I can't detach myself from it,and get emotionally involved,because I'm patriotic,love my country and love football. I really don't know how I can detach myself from it!

[Behind-the-Gulls]

Real chance a European team could win this.Argentina and Brazil have been distinctly unimpressive so far,and lucky to get through.
Germany,Belgium and Netherlands all in with a real chance I reckon.Been a great World-Cup.Loads of exciting matches and although knock-out stages not quite as entertaining,still had some great twists and turns(hats off to USA for their incredible effort and energy).
No one outstanding team and they've all got weaknesses but reckon Colombia,Germany, Netherlands and Belgium will go though to semi-finals.

[Gullscorer]

So while England, yet again, fail miserably, Germany are in their fourth World Cup semi-final in succession. For them, no need for excuses such as 'it's a young side' or 'we're building for the future'. Such excuses are complete bollocks. When did the Germans ever need a period of failure whilst 'building for the future'..? England will continue to be a second-rate footballing nation until we look at Germany and other successful nations and learn lessons from them. English football still needs a thorough overhaul from top to bottom...

[ferrarilover]

So while England, yet again, fail miserably, Germany are in their fourth World Cup semi-final in succession. For them, no need for excuses such as 'it's a young side' or 'we're building for the future'. Such excuses are complete bollocks. When did the Germans ever need a period of failure whilst 'building for the future'..? England will continue to be a second-rate footballing nation until we look at Germany and other successful nations and learn lessons from them. English football still needs a thorough overhaul from top to bottom...

1939-1945.

Matt.

[Gullscorer]

=D Actually, Matt, it could be said, 1914-1945.

But the Dutch are now in their fifth World Cup semi-final. And I believe the same goes for Argentina. And Brazil.. well, we know about them..

All this must point to something lacking in English football and its organisation which makes us such comparative failures in world football.

[Dave]

Italy, Portugal, reigning world and double European champions Spain didn't make through the group stages either, would you say there's anything wrong with their domestic football right now ?

The biggest problem in English football is a massive resistance to change. EPPP is very good thing for youth development football, what reaction was it met with, f-ing premier league bigwig stich up, no body actually stopped to look past the compensation element, at things like allowing the best young players much greater exposure to technical coaching than they were getting, and forcing clubs to take on a greater number of qualified coach's into their academy programmes , and the implementation of proper measurement and assessment of a young player's development.

Greg Dyke, ok, his 'b' team proposal wasn't the best idea, but at least the guy came up with an idea, at least he's been prepared to stand up and say we need to change, what reaction did he get, shove your f-ing shat idea up your arse, you d-head.

That's the problem, we must change are attitudes, attitudes that say, sack the manager, that was our worst world cup finals since 1958, but then again we didn't qualify 74,78,94, we failed to see Roy Hodgson pretty much stripping back the English style of play, gone was the boot and up the big lad and hope for the best, we actually saw some pretty decent technical performances, what's needed to succeed at international level, but it was boring and we don't like it, and what we also failed to see, was Hodgson not scared to blood some very young and talented players, and yes it was a factor, and yes the margins of failing to get through the group were so fine, it could have been very different with a slice of good luck.

[happytorq]

9

When did the Germans ever need a period of failure whilst 'building for the future'..?

Probably the period 1997 - 2001. after Euro 96 Germany really went downhill. They did get to the quarter finals in France 98 but they had a very soft group (crappy US, Iran and Yugoslavia - the latter of which they couldn't beat), and Euro 2000 was a disaster. After that tournament the German system was properly overhauled. I know they got to the World Cup final in 2002, but that probably the worst team to reach the final for quite some time - again favoured by a very helpful draw (Ireland, Cameroon & Saudi Arabia in the group stages! followed by Paraguay, and over=performing USA and a South Korea that had had some very dubious officiating to get to the semi) - and don't forget it was the same side that had been hammered 5-1 by England in qualification. England!

What you're seeing now is the product of that overhaul. That's the sort of from-the-ground-up shift that the England program needs. Should take 10 years, if things are done properly. It's incidentally exactly the sort of thing that France did prior to their world cup win, too. They set up the Clarefontaine academy in 1988, and oh look, they won the world cup ten years later. Other countries have got their act together and are following similar programs to codify the top level coaching (that's what Klinsmann helped with for Germany, and what he's doing here in the US.) Unless the FA take steps to manage coaching at every level, England will continue to disappoint.

The nature of the game is cyclical in any case; it's pretty much impossible to maintain a high level national program every single time around. Spain's dynasty is at an end, and the Italian side will also need a refresh. If anything their victory in 2006 papered over some of the cracks.

[gullintwoplaces]

happytorq is absolutely right. It is blindingly obvious that a nationwide programme of improvement in coaching is required, which in turn needs significant investment. This includes numbers of coaches, coaching standards and facilities. The facilities issue is also one for Government, who sold off so many playing fields, and Local Government. Unfortunately the Government's priority is more about setting up schools to teach religious extremism than breaking down religious divides and building up children's enthusiasm for sport.

Instead the FA's solution is to shaft clubs like Torquay by introducing Premiership B teams into our lower League football. Dyke is utterly clueless, and he runs the FA. Until we have somebody who understands football in charge of the FA, and somebody willing to challenge the power of the Premiership, then there will be no major change and England will continue to fail.

[Dave]

The two posts above in a small way prove part of my points are right, and show how so many completely miss the point. The overhaul of the English game has already begun, the F.A has already opened it's state of the art training centre..http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10 ... 48087.html

EPPP is part of that overhaul I've already detailed a few improvements that programme will bring, part of it, is to get qualified coach's into the game . But hey we were to busy telling the P/L to fork off over the compensation element of it, as said we failed to see the massive benefits that programme will bring, in time.

Again Greg Dyke, yes his B team idea wasn't a good one, but his next idea may well hit the jackpot, but we're to busy calling him clueless, a d-head, a w-ker, not entirely sure anything he'll come up will by well received, because of the bias view people have formed about him. At least he's trying, at least he has come out and said there's not enough English players at the top level in our game, and he's prepared to do something about it.

Those calling him names, and suggesting he's incompetent, might be better of placed sending him some of their own ideas bring about the change we need.

As said 'attitudes' need to change we need to 'embrace' change, until we do, England has no chance.

[gullintwoplaces]

Re the above comment.

I agree that attitudes need to change. This will not happen, however, without trust. Very few people outside the Premiership trust the motives of foreign owned Premiership clubs. Dyke broke trust with supporters of lower league clubs when he create his extremely ill conceived and insulting proposal to introduce B teams into the lower leagues. It was not just a not very good idea, it was a dreadful idea.

I cannot applaud Dyke for coming up with an idea that would have destroyed lower league football. The fact that he used somebody like Danny Mills to sell the idea added insult to injury. He may come out with a brilliant plan next time round, but forgive my scepticism.

I hope that EPPP is successful. Most fans want England to do well. A lot more needs to be done, however, to ensure that our coaching faculties and resources are in a par with our European competitors.

I agree that there were positives for England and I applaud Hodgson for giving young players a chance. He needs to have the courage to drop players like Gerrard in future though. My main worry with England was that the players looked afraid of the opposition at times. A bit more ruthlessness might have seen them through.

Sorry to be so negative about Dyke, but for me he has broken trust with lower league supporters irreparably.

As for ideas to improve English players' chances, I think there is no option but to severely restrict the number of non EU players in the Premiership. If there was reciprocity, with young English players going to African and South American club sides to develop, then I might not think this, but the Premiership is a honeypot for players from around the world. Our young players have to be outstanding to break through, rather than just talented and promising.