The European Union: We're out...!!!

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The European Union: In or Out?

Poll ended at 07 Aug 2016, 15:29

1. The UK should stay in the EU.
2. The UK should leave the EU.
Total votes: 335

Fred Perry
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The European Union: We're out...!!!

Post by Fred Perry » 02 Aug 2017, 23:31

merse btpir wrote:
02 Aug 2017, 21:55
merse btpir wrote:
02 Aug 2017, 12:00
...........why do you think the National Health Service, London Transport, Joe Lyons and other major employees set up direct recruitment in the Caribbean after the Second World War?
A little bit (well quite a bit actually) of education for you and the '7/10 people in the UK who want proper control of Migration into the UK' Fred......

N.B that the UK joined the European Union on 1st November 1993 when the Treaty on European Union (otherwise known as the Treaty of Maastricht) came into force. No country could have joined before November 1993 as the European Union did not exist till the Treaty on European Union came into force.

Using references derived from:
Ceri Peach
Research Paper in Ethnic Relations No.15
Centre for Research in Ethnic Relations October 1991 University of Warwick Coventry CV4 7AL

West Indian migration to Britain effectively started in 1948, (although it has much longer antecedents) peaked in the early 1960s and was effectively over by 1973. By this time, the population had reached about 550,000 . Migration to France and to the Netherlands started ten to fifteen years later than from the British Caribbean. In France, the Caribbean-born population in the early 1950s (about 15,000) was similar to that in Britain and although it doubled during the 1950s and 1960s it was not until the 1970s that the major expansion in net migration took place. By the census of 1982, the Caribbean population in France was estimated at 266,000. The migration to the Netherlands began in the early 1960s when the British movement was at its height, peaked in 1975, when the movement to Britain had ceased and decreased in the 1980s although some family reunion has continued since then. By 1988, the Caribbean population of the Netherlands was estimated at 308,000.

The processes of migration affecting the three different groups are surprisingly different. The movement to Britain was characterised by free market labour economics; that to France by paternalistic government sponsorship and that to the Netherlands by politically motivated flight. This is not to say that sponsorship played no part in the migration from the British Caribbean nor that demand for labour played no part in the state sponsorship of migration from Martinique, and Guadeloupe or in the movement from Surinam. Nor is it to say that political considerations were not of critical importance in determining the peak of Caribbean migration to Britain, just as they were later to determine the peak of Surinam migration. Nevertheless, the generalisation holds true and the critical determinants of migration were very different in the British Dutch and French cases.

Caribbean migration to Britain was essentially powered by free market labour forces, but it had its origins in government sponsored war time recruitment. Post war direct recruitment by British Rail, London Transport and the National Health Service, although not numerically dominant, were important in shaping the movement. In Barbados, for example, the island most affected by direct recruitment, just under a quarter of the emigrants in 1960, left on sponsorship schemes. However, these schemes were introduced after the migration had got under way. Family and island social networks were by far the most important channel of diffusing information and arranging initial footholds in Britain.

Of major significance for the history of Caribbean settlement, was Britain's active recruitment of labour in the Caribbean to help the war effort: 8,000 men were recruited to serve in the RAF. Patterson refers to 7,000 Jamaicans serving overseas in the armed forces while smaller numbers volunteered from other parts of the Caribbean . Foresters were recruited in British Honduras (now Belize) to work in Scottish forests and workers were also recruited to work in the munitions industry. In all, 345 men arrived in Britain under the latter scheme, which was wound up in 1946.

However, the post war movement in earnest from the former British West Indies to Britain is often dated to the arrival of 417 Jamaicans on the 'Empire Windrush' in 1948 or to the arrival of 100 Jamaicans on the 'Ormonde' a year earlier. By the time of the 1951 census there were about 17,000 persons born in the Caribbean living in Britain. During the 1950s and early 1960s net West Indian immigration tracked the demand for labour in Britain, with perhaps a three month lag . The threat of legislation to curb immigration by British passport holders, who often had no citizenship other than that of the United Kingdom and Colonies, had the paradoxical effect of increasing immigration in a rush to beat the ban. However, it seems to have restricted the movement to Britain without drying up the supply of migrants. After 1962, net immigration to Britain decreased considerably, but liberalisation of the US and Canadian immigration legislation led to renewed migration, particularly of skilled workers.

Jamaica was the earliest affected by emigration. In 1948, 547 Jamaicans emigrated to Britain. By 1951 when about 1,000 West Indians migrated, only about 100 of them were not from Jamaica. Migration from Barbados was already well established by 1955 when 2,754 people left but for the smaller islands it was just becoming established. Migration from the Leewards seems to have been going in earnest by 1955 and movement from the Windwards by 1956. Trinidad also seems to have moved to large scale emigration in 1956 while Guyana did not get into its stride until 1960. Belize was hardly affected by the movement and in 1981 there were only 1,043 persons born in Belize in Britain out of a Caribbean total of 295,179 (OPCS, 1983, Census 1981, Country of birth, Great Britain, Table 1).

Illustrating the speed with which the movement gathered momentum in Montserrat in the Leewards, Philpott reports (1977, 95) that in 1952 only 6 Montserratians applied for passports to go to Britain, but that numbers increased substantially the following year when an Italian line began calling at the island on the return run from South America. In 1955, 1,145 Montserratians applied for passports. A Spanish line began to call as the migration mounted and in 1956 the construction of an airstrip made air connections with Britain possible. Between 1955 and 1961 3,835 Montserratians arrived in Britain (Peach, 1968, 107) out of a 1960 Montserrat census population of 12,167.

Direct recruitment of labour by British agencies post - dates the beginning of the serious emigration. The Barbadian government set up a sponsorship scheme in 1955 under which British Transport Commission, the London Transport Executive, the British Hotels and Restaurants Association, and the Regional Hospital Boards received workers. London Transport Executive sent a direct recruiting team to Barbados in 1956 and by 1958 it had recruited almost 1,000 workers. By the end of 1961 it had recruited over 2,000 Barbadians.. Between 1955 and 1960, the Barbadian government scheme had sponsored 3,680 workers of whom 40 per cent went to the London Transport Executive. The main conclusion to draw from this is that directly recruited or sponsored labour was an important but minority element in the migratory flow affecting people only from Barbados. In Jamaica, the government tried, if anything, to restrict the flow. It is also important to note that direct recruitment came into play after the migratory streams had been established. The movement to Britain acted as a 'replacement population', moving to gaps left by the upward mobility of the white population. Migration sustained significant parts of the service industries in Britain, in hospitals and transport and industrially it was concentrated in some of the least dynamic industries. Since the radical analysts of migration stress the dependence of the capitalist system on the inputs of raw labour, it is worth noting that it was the flagging social services and the weaker parts of the industrial economy which used migration as a prop.

The migration cycle from the Caribbean to Britain effectively began in 1948 and was over by 1973 . Net immigration from the West Indies to Britain for the period 1955 to 1974 was highly and significantly inversely related to unemployment rates in Britain. The Home Office ceased keeping embarkation figures after 1974, so that the sharp reduction in net immigration cannot be monitored as clearly as one would hope. However, an alternative, though not entirely satisfactory measure of gross immigration, gross emigration and net inflow is available in the International Passenger Survey (IPS). Figures 2 and 3 show that both the Home Office data and the IPS figures show a clear inverse relationship between unemployment and net immigration from the West Indies.

What I am illustrating to you is that the UK has and will forever be depended on immigration to fulfil it's labour force requirements. That they have more latterly come from within the EU is as much a result of a lessening of immigrants from what has been the British Commonwealth through the attractions of Caribbeans and Asians going to the USA and Canada as it is to immigration not being needed........if you doubt me try taking stock of the profiles of the transport infrastructure and the hospital workers to utilise just two aspects of the need for immigration.

Your UKIP inspired waffle about 'being in control of immigration' is just that and nothing to do with whether or not the UK would be better off leaving the EU.

Drivel from the REMOANERS.

They will want ALL the EU to move to the UK next !...

Proper control of UK immigration is not UKIP waffle. It is what the majority of " Joe Public " wants.

Successive UK governments ( both Tory / Lib Dem & Tory Coalition and Labour ) have made promises to get immigration under control and failed.

Labour and Tony Blair , in particular, forced this explosion of " open borders " onto the UK.

Even Corbyn wants OUT of the EU.

At least UKIP got us the referendum.

The UK is not the worse place in the world , but standards of respect have distinctly dropped.

At least we are now making inroads into closing down Bogus Colleges and helping to prevent " NHS Health Tourism ".

Fred Perry
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Post by Fred Perry » 03 Aug 2017, 05:19

Is Philip Hammond ( a " Remained " ) really the man up for the job , leading us out of the EU ?.

I have my doubts.

It seems a conflict of interests to me -,he has already p ssed off Boris Jihnson and the " hard line " Tory Brexiteers , big time.

We voted out , as the EU is flawed on the various economies in the 28 member states. How could the UK possibly plan for the future on infrastructure, housing , schools etc etc , as with unlimited open door migration , numbers are totally unknown !...

The majority of us , wish for proper control who cones here and to govern our own Country, with OUR set of rules.

We also WANT to trade with the " rest of the world " !...

The EU wants us more than we want them !...

merse btpir
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Post by merse btpir » 03 Aug 2017, 08:53

Yes Fred......... :cool:

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Post by S4fedr1ve » 03 Aug 2017, 09:04

"The EU needs us more than we need them" Where does this sort of intelligent thinking come from? Certainly not from Europe. Maybe when we make our own set of rules again the standard of English lessons in schools will improve.

On a separate note where has gullscorer gone. I don't agree with many of his views. But I hope he's ok.

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Post by Trojan 67 » 07 Aug 2017, 00:25

S4fedr1ve wrote:
03 Aug 2017, 09:04
"The EU needs us more than we need them" Where does this sort of intelligent thinking come from? Certainly not from Europe. Maybe when we make our own set of rules again the standard of English lessons in schools will improve.

On a separate note where has gullscorer gone. I don't agree with many of his views. But I hope he's ok.
Was wondering the same. :nod:
The poster previously known as Ellacombe Buhy.

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