The European Union: We're out...!!!

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The European Union: In or Out?

Poll ended at 07 Aug 2016, 15:29

1. The UK should stay in the EU.
100
30%
2. The UK should leave the EU.
235
70%
 
Total votes: 335


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The European Union: In or Out?

Post by madgull » 24 Jul 2016, 13:32

We've got four years til the next election, and the Labour Party is currently doing all it can to sabotage itself. Let's see where we are in 2020.

A few people will be lost to UKIP etc, but the general election system is so overwhelmingly skewed towards needing to vote for one of two parties that we'll all fall yet against into a 'lesser of two evils' vote. The British public has proven time and again that it won't lift itself out of apathy to stop things that aren't in their interest, and the establishment has similarly proven its ability to get what it wants, even in the face of overwhelming opposition from everyday people. If it isn't free movement, it'll be something so similar that a close look will find it hard to spot the difference. They'll name it something different, naturally, but a rose by any other name...

Anyway, I didn't mean in terms of popularity, I meant in terms of feasibility - it will be far easier to implement socialist reforms outside of the European Union from a legislative standpoint. Perhaps that aforementioned apathy can be (and may NEED to be) utilised; I'm sure the public would love to watch a revolution over their TV dinners. ;-)


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Post by PhilGull » 24 Jul 2016, 15:37

There have been four by-elections since last year's general election. All of them were Labour seats which they held. Three of them were held with increased majorities, the other was only a 0.3% drop.

Despite what was might read, see and hear in the MSM (I really am growing to hate this term!) Corbyn is actually really quite popular out there on the ground.
*UKIP also saw some improvements with Lib Dems and Plaid also seeing some positives.

Taken from Wikipedia

Tooting +8.7
Ogmore -0.3
Sheffield Brightside and Hillsborough +5.9
Oldham West and Royton +7.3
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Post by forevertufc » 24 Jul 2016, 17:58

I'm not doubting Corbyn is popular out there on the ground, but it's only in his, own back yard, problem is, he's has to win in other places too.

Those by-elections are strong Labour areas, Oldham had been held by Labour since the 1950's, no matter the leader, Labour will always win those seats, Labour will have to win back at least half the seats plus in Scotland, no sign of Corbyn having any effect there at all, in this years Welsh assembly elections, and we're talking about a traditional Labour area, the LIb Dems were -2.6 % Cons -3.9% Lab -7.6 % remember this was held at a time when the current Tory government was at the height of it's unpopularity.

Local council elections were held at the same time, Labour finished with a net loss of 11 seats, seems like not a bad result all in all, but when you factor, this was at the time the government had just gone through the disability benefit cut, and had got into row with the Lords over family tax credit cuts, more like a forkin disaster for Labour, who really should thrashed the Tories, but didn't.

Labour have not had a real national test yet, but with polls the way they are at moment, and no sign of an end to Labour struggles a problems, whilst 6 months is a long time in politics I don't see anything changing.

Allegations of intimidation whilst denied are not going away. Do I see his MP's backing him when he's re-elected leader, no , you only have to look at their body language during May's first PMQ'S, when she smashed Corbyn out of the park.


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Post by PhilGull » 26 Jul 2016, 10:23

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54526.html

So there we have it. UK Government (read: the Tories) have no plans to take up the slack when they drag us off EU gravy train. Obviously no one will be surprised by this, but still...
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Post by Gullscorer » 26 Jul 2016, 10:58

PhilGull wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 54526.html

So there we have it. UK Government (read: the Tories) have no plans to take up the slack when they drag us off EU gravy train. Obviously no one will be surprised by this, but still...
Given that Brexit is probably at least two years away yet (though it could be next year), this smacks very much of a display of petulance, even a perverted vindictiveness, by peevish Remainers in the Treasury; cutting off the nose etc., since the money that would have been given by the EU is a part of what we already paid in. Amazing (but as you say, not really surprising)..!!


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Post by PhilGull » 26 Jul 2016, 11:07

Or it's the Government cutting the money off now so that when we eventually leave the EU it won't be missed and they can spunk it on something else, new wallpaper in their office maybe.
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Post by Gullscorer » 26 Jul 2016, 11:24

A warning to the Government, and to the arrogant elite the Remainers unwittingly serve: if the UK does not make a clean and complete break from the EU, eventually there will be protests and demonstrations in the streets the like of which this country has never seen. http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/davi ... migration/


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Post by Gullscorer » 28 Jul 2016, 13:14

Interesting suggestion in this article: a Union of the British Isles, including England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern and Southern Ireland (perhaps the only way those two could be united): http://www.ukipdaily.com/leaving-eu-immigration-fish/

A great idea: all the proud nations of these islands, reclaiming their sovereignty and freedom, their territorial waters and fishing industries, but members of the same family united together in a common cause, going from strength to strength as we trade and interact as friends with the countries of Europe, the Commonwealth, and the world, while the EU and its doomed economy and failed currency continue to decline, certainly until it realises that as a political project it has no future.

We in these islands could have a great future together. The only problem is that traditionally we have spent as much time fighting amongst ourselves than combining together for the common good. So, for example, will the Irish put behind them all those centuries of anti-British sentiment (whether or not justified)? Will the Scots realise just how much they have been duped and misled by the SNP regarding the EU ? And will the politicians in Westminster and elsewhere understand that they are there to serve all of the people, and not themselves, nor any particular ideology?


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Post by PhilGull » 28 Jul 2016, 22:28

Ha ha, now that is funny! Would you really be happy giving up the Monarchy and House Of Lords? There is no way the people of Ireland would just join the UK as is, it would need to be a properly democratic state.
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Post by Gullscorer » 28 Jul 2016, 22:44

PhilGull wrote:Ha ha, now that is funny! Would you really be happy giving up the Monarchy and House Of Lords? There is no way the people of Ireland would just join the UK as is, it would need to be a properly democratic state.
I believe that point was alluded to in the last paragraph of my post..

http://www.ukipdaily.com/another-myth-eu-busted/


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Post by Gullscorer » 11 Aug 2016, 11:06

England is the fifth most densely populated country in the world. Which is why the English people want an end to uncontrolled immigration and one of the reasons they voted to leave the EU. Except for the population of London who, presumably, are too dense to understand this.. http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/mark ... -any-more/


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Post by PhilGull » 11 Aug 2016, 11:35

I cannot get to that page due to it triggering a 'Gateway BOTNET Filter Alert' on our proxy so cannot see what it actually says so I am arguing blind(!)
*I really would think twice about visiting that site, you certainly need to make sure your security measures are all up to date.

First of all, I live in London and far from being dense I embrace our great social and ethnic diversity and am yet to find the streets too crowded.
Secondly, outside of sport England doesn't really exist. We live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Thirdly, on this list the UK is the 15th most densely populated country in the world and on these lists we are 50th and 43rd.
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Post by Gullscorer » 11 Aug 2016, 13:51

Hi Phil, I've checked and there is no security problem with that website. It could be that your Gateway Botnet filter is censoring the site either for politically-biased reasons or due to the influence of politically correct 'social justice' warriors (believe me, it does happen: a number of perfectly valid and legal websites have been banned at various times on academic, educational and library systems because they were deemed 'unsuitable' for young students).

If the number of people per sq. mile (or sq. kilometre) exceeds a certain density, then a place can be said to contain a dense population. I thought somebody might find the ambiguity of the word amusing.. I live in the country, and every time I visit London I find the streets too crowded. It's a terrible place. The same goes for any big city, unfortunately. I get the impression that, to Londoners, England outside London doesn't really exist. Which is perhaps one of the reasons why most of England voted for Brexit.

I was actually talking about (and the article was about) England, not the UK. I notice that whilst a majority of the Scottish people want to remain in the EU, recent polls suggest that they also want to remain in the UK. Presumably they want the best of both worlds. Those population figures show how unwise it is to rely on damned statistics. Perhaps the referendum result went the way it did because people got wise to statistics, 'facts', and economic arguments. Principles prevailed over expediency.


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Post by PhilGull » 11 Aug 2016, 14:27

Oh I got the humour!

It's quite funny really how angsty we all get about these things. At the end of the day whether we're ruled from Brussells or Westminster, whether it's left or right, publicly or privately educated, northers or southeners it's all the same. For the majority of us nothing much changes, life goes on - 'they' will always make sure we have something or someone to moan about and direct our anger towards whilst they line their pockets.
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Post by Southampton Gull » 11 Aug 2016, 23:12

PhilGull wrote:I cannot get to that page due to it triggering a 'Gateway BOTNET Filter Alert' on our proxy so cannot see what it actually says so I am arguing blind(!)
*I really would think twice about visiting that site, you certainly need to make sure your security measures are all up to date.

First of all, I live in London and far from being dense I embrace our great social and ethnic diversity and am yet to find the streets too crowded.
Secondly, outside of sport England doesn't really exist. We live in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Thirdly, on this list the UK is the 15th most densely populated country in the world and on these lists we are 50th and 43rd.
It loaded fine for me, Phil. I'd run a few scans if I was you :cool:
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