According to a BBC report, Hillsborough match commander David Duckenfield accepts that his failure to shut a tunnel to football terraces "was a direct cause" of 96 deaths.
This is nonsense. Whilst the police's decision not to close the tunnel was certainly a major contributory factor, along with the authorities' lack of foresight in building fencing which prevented spectators from escaping onto the pitch, the direct cause of the deaths was the stupidity of fans irresponsibly pushing forward into the spectators already on the terraces. That was the direct cause. (Whether it was the biggest factor, that's obviously debateable).
But it's unlikely, of course, for fans to acknowledge their own shortcomings, nor any culpability, however minor; people usually look for somebody else to blame..
Gullscorer wrote:people usually look for somebody else to blame..
You're learning!
Could not agree more Gullscorer. I wouldn't say the police weren't to blame, but there is almost certainly a major case of people really using their brains and questioning whether it is too tight. All just to watch a football match. Such a waste of life.
I hope Emet comments on this as I know we are both in total agreement as to who was at fault. It was such a sad day for football and the families of those who lost their lives but the ones to blame were doing what they were and still are known to do.
If only you could agree with me more, Cambgull.. :~D
Dave, a sad day indeed for football and for the families involved, and, as CG says, a waste of life, just for a game of football. When people, and politicians, and society generally, learn from their mistakes, then progress can be made, and I suppose progress has been made in this area. Unfortunately, people tend to forget the lessons of history. Human nature? We must be forever vigilant..
Gullscorer wrote:If only you could agree with me more, Cambgull.. :~D
Say something else I can agree with, and we'll be in business!
Unfortunately, it takes occasions like Hillsborough and the Bradford fire to bring raise standards to a higher level. My partner's uncle was one of the 96 who died during that awful day and without that situation, we would probably not be able to watch and enjoy football in the same way that we do now. No one should ever risk their lives going to watch a game of football, but if it takes a disaster like the one at Hillsborough to stop thousands or millions of fans putting their lives at risk every Saturday, then at least some positive that can be taken from it.
Luke, your partners uncle was almost certainly an innocent victim of a set of circumstances that no one could have predicted. There were many factors involved, but what really hacks many, many people off is the absolute total denial that Liverpool fans were in any way to blame for any of the events of that day. Its the opinion of many, many people I know that the justice the families seek begins with the letter 'c'.
Who turned up in their 1000s just before kick off? ( I'll give you a theory as to why that happened shortly).
Who turned up without tickets with a view to forcing their way in (a well known ploy of Liverpool fans way before the Hillsborough disaster and incredibly still going on to this day)?
Who has constantly misinterpreted the 'drunken Liverpool fans were to blame' accusation as it was the 96 who died that were drunk NOT the latecomers who forced a decision on SYP to fatally open an exit gate causing a rush of people into the ground?
And why were the stewards and a police sergeant on duty that day accused of neglect of duty having left their posts in the West Stand only to state in the latest enquiry that they had feared for their own safety due to the threats and general behaviour of the Liverpool fans? Indeed the police sergeant stated they were the worst fans he had ever policed! They were on the stand for one day YES ONE DAY while the policeman in overall charge, David Duckenfield, after admitting he was at fault that day spent over a WEEK giving evidence?
I have many friends who lived in and around the area at the time, and tales of Liverpool fans staggering around so drunk they could barely stand were common, urinating in gardens and being generally totally abusive and obnoxious.
The theory as to why so many of them turned up late came from a work mate of mine. He's a Leeds fan and went to the semi at Hillsborough in 1987, and when passing the ground at about 12-30 that day was ordered, along with his mates to go straight into the ground at the risk of being arrested and missing the game. despite protests they were shepherded in and not allowed to even go to the burger bar across the road. He thinks that if Liverpool fans suffered the same treatment in 1988 (when they also played in the semi at Hillsborough) then they probably avoided the ground until the last minute and stayed in the local pubs (at least one of which was trashed and ransacked with the landlord and his staff having to lock themselves in the living quarters as the Liverpool fans wrecked the place and robbed it of its entire stock), thus turning up late.
The constant misinterpretation of drink causing the 96 deaths really pisses me and many more off as almost certainly the poor buggers who perished were the ones who got in nice and early, got behind a barrier with a good view and were consequently crushed by the drunken latecomers. Unfortunately that possibility is never mentioned as we all know Liverpool fans are all angels and are 0% to blame for anything (even Heysel, ironically one of the reasons fences were erected in the first place!).
While feeling desperately sorry for the people who lost loved ones, the Justice campaigns total rejection of any blame whatsoever being laid at their own fans door has alienated them from many people.
The Police weren't forcing people into the ground. The stewards weren't forcing people into the ground, neither were Sheffield Wednesday or the FA's Officials.
As for Hillsborough and many other grounds being safer now they're all seats, which clubs fans (admittedly along with others) stand at away fixtures without exception, yet shout the loudest against the return of standing at football?
What is going to happen if the inquest returns a verdict of accidental death or misadventure? Are the Justice campaign going to demand another enquiry until they get the verdict they crave?
There has been other disasters at sporting events, Bradford, Hampden Park, Heysel, yet only Hillsborough has dragged on and on through the courts.
The cynic in me wonders why?
'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with their experience!
Thanks Dave. It's a very emotive subject with us Wednesday fans, indeed, it's banned on the Owlstalk forum while the latest (yes there's the possibility of another one if they don't get the verdict they want) inquest is going on.
It's a matter of opinion obviously as I wasn't there, although I'd been offered a ticket, but there as and still is a massive myth surrounding Liverpool fans fuelled by a sychophantic media.
I've been to Anfield as an away fan, and it's one of the most frightening places I've ever visited.
Jolly Scousers having a laugh and joke with you? Stanley knife wielding brain dead inbred two-hats is the reality. I witnessed a Wednesday fan get a 60 stitch slash in the back in 1985 after we had the audacity to beat them 0-2 AND THAT WAS INSIDE THE GROUND!
My Dirty Leeds supporter work colleague said exactly the same, worst ground he'd ever been to.
The problem with Liverpool is their media image and the influence all the Thieverpool connected pundits have over reality. Mickey Quinn said they should knock Hillsborough down and build a shrine to the 96. I think they should knock Anfield down and build a slum, be a massive improvement.
Liverpool as a city feels sorry for itself, its on the wrong side of the country for Europe, has a massive reputation for crime and benefit abuse and is full of semi Irish pikeys.
It really is a shiiitehole. But no one will ever publicly admit it.
'Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level then beat you with their experience!
