Recently on various channels there have been a few programmes reviewing and highlighting these subjects which have become a big part of our national conscience.
This year started with Benefits Street which I mentioned on a thread previously. There have been others of a similar ilk also. Likewise there have been programmes about immigration and how this effects us.
Two recent programmes which I found particularly interesting were Benefits Britain:Life On The Dole on channel 5, which was a pretty generic look at various people, couples and families living on benefits.Then there was Nick And Margaret:Too Many Immigrants? The two oldies from The Apprentice investigated whether immigrants had a positive or a negative effect on Britain, as a sort of experiment they paired up people who were born here who had the view immigration is negative and people who werent born here trying to show they were a positive effect. These groups spent time together having a look at each others lives and trying to prove their point.
A lot of negative things are said about migrants and people who are on benefits, I really dont want to do that, part of the thing I deduced from these programmes if I didnt know it already is what a fantastic country we live in that at least tries to help people who are down on their luck and is willing to try to help everybody. We should be proud also of the advantages we have of such as things like the NHS.I really dont blame people who want to migrate here, many countries dont help their own like we do let alone those who have come from elsewhere.
The benefits programme looked at just about every stereotype they could think of and probably picked just about every low life, scumbag, thick, lazy layabout, piss taker, immoral ragamuffin they could find and in many respects were trying to just make as big an impact as possible whilst being sensationalist and a bit divisive.
There are many people out there who the benefit system was designed and invented for and is a god send in genuine times of bad luck and hardship, people who through no fault of their own fall on real hard times and need help. However we do have an issue with many taking the piss, the system makes it too easy for them and I hate to say it but the worst offenders are those claiming money for many children. Each week there were people who had never worked, did not support theirselves but felt it was alright to keep having as many children as they wanted. There was a bloke who had fathered 26 children with 15 women and wanted more money and a bigger house, a single mum who despite not supporting herself had 8 children and wanted more, a family all living together on benefits in a large house with enough room but the 16 year old daughter got knocked up and immediately wanted her own place paid for by the tax payer despite her mum and boyfriends pleas for them to all pool their resources and stay together rather than claim more, many families and single parents with lots of children getting their accommodation paid for but wanting bigger to house their ever expanding brood thanks to their irresponsible behaviour. They all seemed to moan that whatever they had was not enough.
Dont get me wrong child benefit is a wonderful thing, and again some people who are on hard times need help sometimes but these were stories of immoral idiots taking the piss. Their argument is that they are entitled to have as many kids as they want, there is no law stating how many they should have, but the problem is they are not paying for, or supporting those children, if it was 1 or 2 it would not be so bad, there are many people who work hard and earn their money who make a conscious decision to either not have children or take care and limit the amount of children they have.
Basically to those people I say YOU made the choice to have children, why should the taxpayer foot the bill to the extent that they are.
There were other tales of benefit piss taking such as the girls who moved from up north to get housing paid for in camden London, then a cap came in and one had to move, she whined about it but what did she expect, "you moved to one of the most expensive parts of the country love"! There was also a mother absolutely chastising her daughter for getting a job, calling her stupid and saying she was an idiot.
Now I know the programme makers were showing the most sensationalist stuff and trying their best to paint things in the worst light possible and there was probably some dodgy editing but these were real people and real stories, we have come accross similar ourselves no doubt, it does happen. Some things that annoyed me was what people spent their money on and still moaned, some were given housing benefit to pay their landlord and they spent it on booze and fags etc.
I am not against immigration, I undertand the benefits of it and where it is a good thing, the Nick and Margaret programme showed a lot of plus points although there should definitely be more control over it and we should have more say over who is coming and going.
There are many immigrants with useful and unique skills, talents, qualifications and qualities who have a positive effect and bring something to the table.
Obviously with the EU the door swings both ways and we could take our pick as to where we go also. There are a few desirable locations that Brits obviously choose such as France and Spain. However when we get Polish, Lithuanians, Romanians and the like using this argument that we could live in their country without question its hardly a fair trade is it. Their countries dont have the same advantages or riches as ours. After working with Eastern Europeans myself I can tell you if the boot was on the other foot and we went to their country looking for work they would not stand for it. If a Brit went to work in a factory over there they are likely to get stabbed in the car park for taking a Poles job.
The argument that immigrants do the jobs that the Brits wont do just does not wash with me. Many people who make those comments are those that the problem does not effect. They are the people who are not in the market for the lower paid unskilled labour jobs that so many are competing for. But admittedly there are many on benefits who wont settle for these types of jobs. This is a problem again, we need to make it so that those who can work have to work, simple as that. There are many Brits who should be working that arent and there should be no need to employ any unskilled labour from abroad. This problem highlighted the point of Brits not trying hard enough to get a job, when people exclaim they have tried hard and tried everything it usually means they have tried unsuccessfully to get the jobs they want . It was proved that in London there are many catering/restaurant/service jobs and hardly any Brits apply. The point was made that this happens everywhere, many jobseeking Brits dont look at various industries or types of job, they look at a select few and that is it. That is just not right.
There are thousands of Brits especially in areas like our own in Torbay who would take almost any job but even the lowest paid unskilled labour jobs just arent there. We dont seem to have many immigrants in our area but could we afford to have a lot of the unskilled worker immigrants here?
Indeed, also in the case of the construction industry, do we really need to employ people from abroad when we have enough of our own qualified people who cant get enough work.
Another problem highlighted was that certain areas of the country have been completely taken over by immigrants and people who were born, grew up and even grew old there have been made a minority and alienated from their own community. Integration by immigrants in these areas has been met with resistance and those that have come here have chosen to bring their own part of the world here and not even try to become part of our culture or community.
It is definite that many immigrants come here to work and they do contribute, we are better off in many ways for it, but mixing the immigration and benefits subjects together the life on the dole programme showed a few immigrant families who blatantly moved here to claim benefits. There were large families of up to 9 -12 who claimed everything going and they havent worked a day and they complained they wanted more. There was a Romanian guy who played the system, he worked for a limited time only, got his NI number, got a GP, claimed everything he could, sent loads of money back home to his wife and kids and even told us he intends to send £40,000 from benefits back to Romania and build a new house.Really, this is a problem with our weak political parties not wanting to be tough and look nasty, but mainly it is one of the downsides of being in the EU. Anyone who moves here should not be able to claim anything for at least 5 years, dont like it, go home. I would not go to a foreign country and expect handouts, neither would many decent hard working people I know. Its not racism, its common sense.
There are many Brits who are as bad or if not worse who have also never worked or paid into the system so I am not just picking on foreigners. Indeed a lot of Brits piss me off because they moan about the NHS and benefits etc while pointing at their chest and exclaiming "I've paid into the system for x years". Eventually though a lot of people by the time they are old and they or their family have used the likes of the NHS in their lifetime or benefits or whatever they have probably had a lot more money out of the system than what they have actually put in.
Anyway, in many respects I suppose you cant blame people for taking benefit money for nothing if its on offer, if the government are going to hand it out then it will happen. The phrase "i'm only getting what I'm entitled to" is uttered a lot and although it really pisses me off, you have to blame successive governments for making a rod for their own back by agreeing to ridiculous handouts and not being forward or radical thinking enough. The trouble is now, too many are too used to it and have made a lifestyle from it and the governments are too scared of upsetting people and causing a fuss and losing votes to take any sort of control and bring benefits in line with what they should be.
There have been ideas on other threads which were quite good, especially by one of our esteemed posters, such as involving the premise of no money changing hands and having a benefit card where the claimant can have whatever they are entitled to on a credit type card, but there will be luxuries like booze, fags, electricals etc that the card cant be used for. -
and myself -EmetEdadsBeard »
I'm afraid its time for-
Benefits paid on a card which will NOT pay for fags, booze, tats, drugs, mobile phones, flat screen TVs and Sky subscriptions. These are luxuries, if you would like them GET A FOOKIN' JOB!
Purpose built flats for single parents (particularly teen mothers) who are using kids as a lifestyle choice. You get a room, share a kitchen/bathroom and the babies needs are catered for (food and nappies etc supplied), drug addled boyfriend is not coming in to smoke his 5h1t or snort anything as gorilla sized security guard (job for you there Dave ) is stood in their way. No more jumping the housing queue, take room or stay with your parents.
chunkygull »
Link to the page for more conversations on this topic - http://forum.torquayfans.com/viewtopic. ... &start=690it might not be a popular idea but new tower block estates are the only way to combat housing shortages and cut the benefit bill.
simple idea- build the new flats on the outskirts of town etc, make them decent enough for purpose - because the old type estates were sh!t to start with which is part of the cause of social unrest and crime riddled estates. the flats could be nicely laid out and there could be communal gardens and a decent playground for the kids.
make the flats all different sizes to suit the sizes of those irresponsible families who keep having too many children even though they cant pay to support them. up to 5 or 6 bedrooms if necessary.
anybody that would normally qualify for housing benefit will not get their rent paid anymore, they must take a flat that is offered to them. no money will be paid out in benefit and there will be no rent to pay. they will get the flat, but must still endevour to try and support themselves by finding a job or risk losing the benefits and flat they have.all those who live off the state by having children will not be allowed to once all the children are 18.
any criminal or anti-social activity by a tenant or their children will not be tolerated.and the flat you are given must be kept in immaculate condition. 3 strikes and you are out. homeless and no benefits. bye bye, sayonara, arrivederci, adidos, au revoir, do widzenia, so long, ta ta, see ya- get the f*** out.
before everyone starts saying oh housing estates, tower blocks we cant have any more of them, crime, theft, drugs, social unrest, like i said the old estates were sh!tholes and bred decay and deprivation from the start.treat people like animals and they will behave like animals.
to prevent problems - similar again to mr beards suggestion, some decent security teams, big burly bastards to patrol the grounds to prevent or stop any crime and antisocial behaviour. deterrent and antidote (job creation right there). if needs be the money saved by the government from not having to fork out housing benefit can go on extra police who then might be able to spare a few good men to perform some of the duties police are supposed to do - such as patrol and sort out areas where there is potential for crime (more job creation).
also the government could afford to employ inspectors to keep a check on the flats and make sure nothing untoward is going on and the flats are being well kept and maintained (more job creation).
before anyone says hang on we cant afford this - well the outlay to begin with will be expensive. how much did the olympics cost again? how much did an nhs computer system that failed cost? how much do we give away each year in foreign aid?
it will cost a fair bit to build these new tower blocks, but it will be worth it. if there are 1 million housing benefit claimants then there needs to be about 1 million flats built. this would create jobs in the building industry for a long time giving them much needed work.
there will be the expensive outlay and costs to build, but after that not much and no more housing benefit bill! The old social housing that is left could then be sold off at an affordable price to get hard working people on the property ladder or at least help bring the rental market down to a realistic affordable rate.
Reading back on my comments there and seeing some off these programmes I realise things are not that simple but there is a rough basis there to work with and although every case, family, situation and circumstance is different I feel a government housing project would save them so much money on housing benefit in the long run.
Likewise, as you cant blame people for claiming what they are told they are entitled to, you cant blame people from abroad wanting to come to our wonderful, generous country if it is better than where they are, many come here to work and create a better life whilst contributing to britain, in some ways it shows you what a good thing we have that they want it. But again the governments need to be realistic and we need proper immigration control as well as finding ways to cut the benefits bill. It is the fault of succesive weak governments why we have many of the problems these programmes continue to highlight. There are no easy solutions or quick fixes, but we need some radical thinking or our wonderful country will be f**ked.
More proof the benefit system is far too soft.Unfortunately this sort of thing is happening everywhere. :no: 