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forevertufc
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Politics

Post by forevertufc » 07 May 2017, 15:54

arcadia wrote:
05 May 2017, 21:31

I agree with you for but we need good opposition or things will get tough for the working class.
Agreed, but there needs to be a strong opposition regardless of the political colour, of the governing party, not just for the working class, there always needs to be checks and balances for the good of everyone.

Problem going into this election, despite austerity cuts, NHS and social care funding, no promise not to raise taxes, the Tory's being regarded as an unpopular government, and so on and on, must political pundits agree it's not a case of whether the Tory's win, it's by how much.

And this is a massive problem, the main opposition Labour are hell bent on blaming the media for their woe's, yet wont look at themselves, probably because they've hijacked by momentum.

They have a now bomb proof leader, Corbyn, comes across as a nice well intentioned bloke, however can't get enough of his own party to work under his leadership, Corbyn when it comes to his party policy, is clearly as confused, as Scooby do, and no matter how much his supporters play down, explain, twist, and try to delete Corbyn's past associations, the evidence of who he sympathises with is there for all to see.

Then McDonnell, march's with and endorsed by communists , admits to being a Marxist, and then with have Diane Abbot, never said anything with underlying racist connotations, and when asked what do 2,5's make, would probably answer 55.

The next problem is, the best answer the SNP, Greens, and some Labour/LimDems can come up with is, a progressive alliance, this is just a lazy way of trying to cheat democracy, instead of doing what they should be, that's taking a long hard look at despite all said above, the Tories have just won council seats in places they hadn't for 40 years, and are polling near 50 % popular support.

The opposition has to get it's act together, otherwise, we're going to be a one party state for 20 years and more to besides. It will be a total shock if the Tories do not win by some margin on June 8th.


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Post by Plainmoor78 » 07 May 2017, 18:06

Completely agree with forever. I think it is going to take the formation of a new party on the left of centre to provide an effective opposition because it is not about corbyn's performance as leader that matters, it is about the fact that momentum have totally hijacked the party.
In the 1980s there was the formation of the SDP which at the time looked promising but ultimately failed. But that was largely because although labour was having problems with insurgents, those insurgents (militant tendency) never actually took over the party. Now thanks to the disastrous decisions of ed miliband momentum have control of the party. I can't see where moderates like Liz Kendall, ed balls, Yvette cooper or chuka brick fit into this current labour party. Now, or after the election, they surely need to face the reality that the labour party is dead as an electoral force.
Where you get one party rule, you get corrupt arrogant politicians as witnessed in the Tory party of the 1990s when they thought they were invincible.




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Post by ManxGull » 19 May 2017, 20:07

lies, distorts, and misrepresents sounds like 98% of the articles you post gullscorer add your hypocrisy you sound like a perfect fit for the bbc


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Post by Gullscorer » 19 May 2017, 23:04

ManxGull wrote:
19 May 2017, 20:07
lies, distorts, and misrepresents sounds like 98% of the articles you post gullscorer add your hypocrisy you sound like a perfect fit for the bbc

The thing is, ManxGull, people will read the comments I've posted over recent years, will consider the facts and the arguments I've presented, will look at the links I've provided, and they will decide for themselves as to their truth and accuracy, and will form their own opinions as to the qualities in my character conveyed in my posts. They may or may not agree with some (or all) of my views. But they will also look at your own comments, and will see that what you post says more about yourself and your own character than about any of the topics being discussed. They will see who makes cogent reasoned arguments and who makes, in the absence of any arguments of their own, personal attacks on their opponents in the discussion. I am quite happy for them to compare and decide for themselves who is the bigot and hypocrite. Are you?


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Post by ManxGull » 19 May 2017, 23:57

I never called you a bigot so lets get that right for a start, I called you a hypocrite because you post articles about how the left does this, wants to do this, this feminist are going to do that, this other this groups gonna do this but when you read the article there's no evidence to support this maybe our source says if you lucky but most of it is just opinion pieces no actual proof or evidence as such. Yet you go on about how the left spreads propaganda , tells lies , distorts facts when most of the articles you post are exactly the same thing! hence why I think your a hypocrite and all my post show is I dnt like ukip or far right wingers like Le Penn, think Nigel Farage is a bullshit artist, I think the articles you post contain lies, distorts, and misrepresents and I think your a hypocrite so if anybody can have an idea about my character from them little tid bits then that's up to them but I never said anything about ur views or you other than I think your a hypocrite the lies, distorts, and misrepresents was about the articles you publish I never said nought about you personally other than the said hypocracy if you actualy read my post instead planning on how your going to make some veiled reference to my character and making up some fake attack/assignation youd see that, and I know im not a bigot, hypocrite cause I am im human but at least ill admit it


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Post by ManxGull » 20 May 2017, 03:12

so now people can see my reasoned argument on why I think your a hypocrite and if you ever want an actual discussion about the left and what it wants instead of posting articles telling me what im suppose to be wanting and doing (think i've missed a lot of these secret meetings and groups maybe im of to much of a sound and reasonable mind to go to lefty never never land that only exists in righty mad made up land ) im here not hard to find you cant speak for the entire left of coarse only being one person but you might have a less alarmist view mind cos I wont fit into the narrow stereotype the articles your post present and instead of posting articles telling me what im doing you might get an actual an actual idea of what some of us are doing think I can do a much better job of speaking for the left than you though you do give a good go mind, and that's if I have time of coarse yano how it is plotting the end of the world , over turning britext turning us into North Korea with much flasher uniforms does take up a lot of a mans time and that whole plan to subvert free speech you wudnt believe how much time that takes up especially when we have to find a building to fit us and those on the right who want to end it cos the whole pc brigade defiantly aint just left theres quite a few righty's in the to but I know that doesn't fit into your whole end of free speech because anything the left doesn't agree with narrative sorry! well not really so yep im quite happy for people to compare and decide for themselves who's the bigot and hypocrite or more than likely it will be whos the lefty talking nonsense and the righty who cant stand any criticism


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Post by Gullscorer » 20 May 2017, 09:12

It is typical of Marxist feminist Liberal politically correct 'social justice warriors', to ignore, even deny the existence of, evidence presented in opposition to their own positions, whilst at the same time demanding such evidence and citations, and presenting their own assertions as established fact and therefore presenting no evidence of their own at all, and accusing their political opponents of sins and shortcomings of which they themselves are guilty. Bigotry or what?

Since you mention North Korea, here's an example of the politically correct in action. The Canadian Government of Justin Trudeau recently passed a law which is not simply anti-free speech. It actually requires people to use artificially contrived language in relation to 'gender'. Yep, the kind of law, being oppressive and totalitarian in nature, you would expect to see in North Korea or the old Soviet Union. Details here, though I do not expect the political left, the ideologically indoctrinated, to accept them as valid arguments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn44uyLkUo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnIAAkSNtqo

It's not only the political left, of course; as has been mentioned, those on the right can also be oppressive, though some would say Theresa May and her colleagues are secret feminist PC socialists! But the left-leaning BBC is, as ever, at it again:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05 ... s-illegal/
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/05 ... d-offline/


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Post by ManxGull » 20 May 2017, 11:24

1. im not a "Marxist feminist Liberal politically correct 'social justice warrior" being neither a Marxist, a feminist, liberal hmm I think that's an American thing or something but point is I dnt know what it really is so not one of those either, pc not me really either and the only social justice ive ever really been apart of was the NHS march last year if that counts but if not im not that either but thanks for the assumption maybe u should ask me what I am before calling me something a chap I did say about discussion but you wanted to call me something instead how typical of the right see I can do that 2 chief we can both be hypocrits together now happier? I never demanded citations or evidence I just said I thought there was lies distortion and misrepresentations in the articles you put up(you've never actualy asked why btw just accusations and asumptions) or are you just lumping me in with all the people that disagree with you , I might look at you trudeau bits later I say might because you just cudnt not have your little dig at the end. you do not know me yet have expectations of me how can expect something of someone you don't know and know little about but assumption seems very much your way in the last post you've done it a lot about me and to quote game of thrones you know nothing john snow and before you get your knickers in a twist ive never said anything about you personaly other than being a hypocrite not made any asumptions , yes the right can be oppressive but so can the left see middle ground!! and Teresa may a feminist pc sociliast whoever would say that is blinder that stevie wonder


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Post by Gullscorer » 20 May 2017, 16:57

ManxGull, I suggest you look back over these recent posts.
First: 'lies, distorts, and misrepresents': I was referring to the BBC, not the first time I have either criticised them or pointed out others' observations. Yet you respond with personal attacks on me.
Secondly, 'I am quite happy for them to compare and decide for themselves who is the bigot and hypocrite. Are you?' Note, I was asking a question. How you can deduce from this that I am calling you a bigot and hypocrite is beyond understanding. I don't need to. People will look at our posts and decide for themselves.
Finally, as for particular political labels, mentioned in my previous post, I was making general inclusive references and universal all-embracing points, which you took personally and responded in an even more personal way. You can, of course, choose whichever label you want. If the cap fits, wear it. Then get someone to take a photograph.. :-)


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Post by ManxGull » 20 May 2017, 19:06

Yes and from what I got from some of the articles you put up is that lies distorts and misrepresents so I said it as you claim the bbc do it but I think your articles do 2 and yes I suppose calling you a hypocrite is a little attack but im yet to see articles about what some right wing groups or pro misogamists do because they funnily want the same thing more balanced view no?, yes I answered that the first time im very happy for people 2 make there minds up they will anyway . chose my label a berets never been my thing and there's a lot of photographs of me a my picked label meetings and rally's 2 outa 3 aint bad :)



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Post by ManxGull » 20 May 2017, 21:37

and I did look up the treadeau bits a liitle bit ones a Canadian girl talking about a load of things just confused me so I didn't watch it all and there other is the hour long Canadian senate passing the said bill which is just to long and little boreing tbh now its not ideological its boredom and time and im not dismissing them either its perfectively good evidence, so did my own bit of research and yep I agree its very dodgy and im really surprised it went through without real challenge but its not the first bill against freedoms passed the snoopers charter went through here 2, and for future reference seems we seem to be on a much more amiable track the whole gender self indentifacation thing or what ever it is boggles i dnt really get it


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Post by Orange Gull » 21 May 2017, 16:16

A central plank of Trump's campaign was calling Obama out for his weak stance on Islamic terrorism, urging him to mention "radical Islamic terrorism". Strange then that when presented with the opportunity to address this on his first trip to Saudi Arabia, Trump's rhetoric seems to be no different to that of the previous administration.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-me ... d=47533001

Will Trump resign in disgrace?

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