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Post by Gullscorer » 04 Apr 2017, 21:29

Despite Brexit, the EU plans to take over our military and our nuclear deterrent capability. Note how this is never discussed in politics nor the media: https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/exclus ... -deterrent


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Post by Orange Gull » 04 Apr 2017, 23:53

Gullscorer wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 21:29
the EU plans to take over our military and our nuclear deterrent capability.
No, it really doesn't.


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Post by Gullscorer » 05 Apr 2017, 14:13

Orange Gull wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 23:53
Gullscorer wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 21:29
the EU plans to take over our military and our nuclear deterrent capability.
No, it really doesn't.
You're obviously part of the conspiracy.. :devil:

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Post by Southampton Gull » 05 Apr 2017, 18:08

Orange Gull wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 23:53
Gullscorer wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 21:29
the EU plans to take over our military and our nuclear deterrent capability.
No, it really doesn't.
Actually it does. The EU has always wanted to control the military under one umbrella, how much easier could it then be to control the masses?
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Post by Orange Gull » 06 Apr 2017, 11:19

Southampton Gull wrote:
05 Apr 2017, 18:08
Orange Gull wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 23:53
Gullscorer wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 21:29
the EU plans to take over our military and our nuclear deterrent capability.
No, it really doesn't.
Actually it does. The EU has always wanted to control the military under one umbrella, how much easier could it then be to control the masses?
Any evidence behind this conspiracy theory? I studied EU defence and foreign policy for 4 years. Have you ever researched any of the civilian or military missions conducted under the EU's Common Security and Defence Policy? If you had then you would know that the EU lacks so many competences in this field as to make it an utter irrelevance as a global security actor.

I interviewed numerous military representatives to the EU last year. They were all quite scathing of the EU's grand statements with no follow up, and it's inability to react to world events. As one representative told me, "The CSDP isn't common, has nothing to do with defence and isn't a coherent policy". The EU can barely agree on sending a few hundred troops to central Africa in non-combat role, let alone agree on creating an army. How do you square this with this apparent plan to take over all 28 militaries and exert European influence around the globe?


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Post by WestLondonYellow » 06 Apr 2017, 11:51

Orange Gull wrote:
06 Apr 2017, 11:19
Southampton Gull wrote:
05 Apr 2017, 18:08
Orange Gull wrote:
04 Apr 2017, 23:53

No, it really doesn't.
Actually it does. The EU has always wanted to control the military under one umbrella, how much easier could it then be to control the masses?
Any evidence behind this conspiracy theory? I studied EU defence and foreign policy for 4 years. Have you ever researched any of the civilian or military missions conducted under the EU's Common Security and Defence Policy? If you had then you would know that the EU lacks so many competences in this field as to make it an utter irrelevance as a global security actor.

I interviewed numerous military representatives to the EU last year. They were all quite scathing of the EU's grand statements with no follow up, and it's inability to react to world events. As one representative told me, "The CSDP isn't common, has nothing to do with defence and isn't a coherent policy". The EU can barely agree on sending a few hundred troops to central Africa in non-combat role, let alone agree on creating an army. How do you square this with this apparent plan to take over all 28 militaries and exert European influence around the globe?
Just because it has always been a massive balls up it doesn't mean Brussels don't intend to have an EU army, they're very good at balls ups.

Also, the fact you have extensively researched joint military efforts up to now, doesn't that prove there is an agenda in play?


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Post by Orange Gull » 06 Apr 2017, 12:16

WestLondonYellow wrote:
06 Apr 2017, 11:51
Just because it has always been a massive balls up it doesn't mean Brussels don't intend to have an EU army, they're very good at balls ups.

Also, the fact you have extensively researched joint military efforts up to now, doesn't that prove there is an agenda in play?
The EU lacks the administrative capability, member-state coherency, and decision-making powers for this fantasy to be true. The CSDP and CFSP are the most intergovernmental spheres of policy in the EU, the Commission has almost no power here, and decisions are taken by the member-states through the European Council and Council of Ministers. Why is an EU army a fantasy? Because member-states aren't interested, there may be a few figures in the Commission and Parliament who desire it but they have no clout here.

As a little case study, look at the history of the much vaunted EU Battlegroups. Launched in the mid-2000s as a sort of quick reaction small-scale force of around 1,000 troops that could respond to a crisis anywhere in the world in a short amount of time. The participating troops would be part of a rotor of member-states. How many times have the Battlegroups been deployed? Zero. Why? Because countries won't put their troops in harms way over matters that don't concern them. Why would the Czech government send troops to the Central African Republic when that is a French matter?

You see, the reason why some sort of supranational EU army is absurd lies in the example above. This is used by the likes of UKIP to try and scare people, however, once you do even the slightest bit of research into the topic you discover how little this supposed supranational power grab is based in reality.

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Post by Southampton Gull » 06 Apr 2017, 14:38

Now if you seriously believe that an EU army isn't part of their plans and is just fantasy and conspiracy you're in for one hell of a shock down the line..............
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Post by Orange Gull » 06 Apr 2017, 15:01

Southampton Gull wrote:
06 Apr 2017, 14:38
Now if you seriously believe that an EU army isn't part of their plans and is just fantasy and conspiracy you're in for one hell of a shock down the line..............
Whose plans? The EU isn't just one body, it's made up of several institutions and only the member-states wield any power here. Again, perhaps there's something I missed during my years of study and perhaps you know more on the subject, if so please share your knowledge.


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Post by WestLondonYellow » 13 Apr 2017, 15:46

Orange Gull wrote:
06 Apr 2017, 15:01
Southampton Gull wrote:
06 Apr 2017, 14:38
Now if you seriously believe that an EU army isn't part of their plans and is just fantasy and conspiracy you're in for one hell of a shock down the line..............
Whose plans? The EU isn't just one body, it's made up of several institutions and only the member-states wield any power here. Again, perhaps there's something I missed during my years of study and perhaps you know more on the subject, if so please share your knowledge.
Think i see the problem here on why you can't fathom this.

You trust and believe what you're told by the authorities. Added to this, you have a vested interest in believing it all as you have invested time and money in your studies (indoctrination) so for ordinary plebs to have a better handle on things than you do is inconceivable to you.


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Post by Orange Gull » 13 Apr 2017, 20:49

WestLondonYellow wrote:
13 Apr 2017, 15:46

Think i see the problem here on why you can't fathom this.

You trust and believe what you're told by the authorities. Added to this, you have a vested interest in believing it all as you have invested time and money in your studies (indoctrination) so for ordinary plebs to have a better handle on things than you do is inconceivable to you.
Why would my studying of a subject be dependent on it succeeding? Writing about policy failings and the increase of Euroscepticism was and is pretty popular.

Those sinister "authorities". So what you're saying is that all the information gained over a period of years and all the people who have written about this subject have been manipulated, and lied to by these authorities to prevent them from gaining knowledge of the EU's secret plan to take over the world or something? A secret that only UKIP it seems are in possession of. That is quite some conspiracy.

You may indeed know more about this subject than me, though it'll take more than recycling old UKIP conspiracies to convince me. If you want to tell me how decisions are really made in CSDP then please go ahead.


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Post by Gullscorer » 17 Apr 2017, 11:48

Perhaps you could provide a link or links to those UKIP conspiracy theories and information regarding this topic? Because I've not been able to find any.


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Post by Orange Gull » 17 Apr 2017, 20:01

That wasn't difficult. The following link explains this quite well. It's always best to get the full picture rather than relying solely on outlets like Breitbart, the Express and UKIP. https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/

This paper explains things well too, though a fair bit is from a theoretical perspective. Read the conclusion if you don't fancy the rest. http://www.e-ir.info/2013/09/26/underst ... rspective/
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