Torquay United v Sutton United - 20/02/18

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tomogull
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Post by tomogull »

merse btpir wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 06:46 Playing three at the back makes that ridiculous. The whole point of 3-5-2 is to provide width; the problem comes when the wingbacks get on the back foot and it becomes 5-3-2. A loss of width going forward and the midfield becoming outnumbered.
Yes - that was the problem. It didn't become 5-3-2 - it was 5-3-2! Apart from Liam Davis going forward on rare occasions (which led to nothing), we sat back much too deep for most of the match. Efete is a decent player when played in his proper position - central defender. For all his willingness, he is not a wing back. In any case, he seemed to be struggling last night - maybe carrying a knock from Saturday? Barnes was the 'holding midfielder' but had an ineffective game. Dowling and Young battled in midfield but were outnumbered, as they were on Saturday. That left Romain and Williams to pick up scraps all night - distanced from the midfield players as Mellow Yellow posted.

We were closing down players quicker than we did on Saturday, but we were too defensive - even though we conceded three. It was the same problem on Saturday, except that D & R exposed the formation failure more than Sutton did last night. Their keeper was able to advance to the halfway line at times, knowing that we posed no threat. A bit risky and was almost caught by Romain on one occasion. Once again, Romain worked his socks off but he won't want to play in Nat League South next season.
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

I thought barnes miss was terrible and should have scored. Difference between winning and losing. I wasn't there but have seen the camera video footage if that's good to judge on.
10 yards out should score no question about it
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Post by arcadia »

The difference between winning and losing is a solid back four. We had three and the three did not slide over to cover the fullbacks when they've gone forward. The fullbacks want to run with the ball instead of passing the ball you don't want defenders taking players on in the penalty box.
Scoring two goals should be good enough to win.
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Post by tomogull »

westyorkshiregull wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 17:34 I thought barnes miss was terrible and should have scored. Difference between winning and losing. I wasn't there but have seen the camera video footage if that's good to judge on.
10 yards out should score no question about it
Yes - it was a dreadful miss and was probably the difference between three points and none. However, I don't think many would disagree that Sutton were the better team and deserved their win.
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

So I understand mate. I wish Sutton all the best and il ove the way they used goalie as a bit of a sweeper. No joke is it , they won the game !! Wish I was there just for that , refreshing to try something different

Football though is fine margins and to succeed or in our case survive it's all those little misses that makes the difference. However it's no excuse for poor play.
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Post by kevgull »

Don’t blame Barnes for a season of shite coaching!
Life is like TUFC. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. :goal:
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

I'm not
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Post by kevgull »

westyorkshiregull wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 19:23 I'm not
Just a general comment Westyorkshire 😊
Life is like TUFC. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. :goal:
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Post by Plymouth Gull »

merse btpir wrote: 21 Feb 2018, 10:27 Although not a new tactical innovation in a strict sense; this tactic has become more popular in no small part to the successes achieved by elite managers like Pep Guardiola, Joachim Low, Mauricio Pochettino and Luis Enrique while using this tactic. Pep even raised a few eyebrows when he immediately asked for Manchester City to sign Marc Andre Ter Stergen from Barcelona, Barcelona refused to sell and Pep was forced to make do with Claudio Bravo who many are of the opinion is an inferior goalie (with his hands) to the axed Joe Hart who is a veritable dinosaur to any enlightened coach.

That's why in this day and age; two footedness, and a perfect first touch are as important for a goalkeeper as any outfield player and training should reflect the importance of that.........are United still operating without a goalkeeping coach? Only on Saturday I watched the Dulwich Hamlet goalkeeper Preston Edwards spending the first ten minutes of his pre-match routine doing one-twos with the goalkeeping coach, ensuring his first touch, two footedness and balance were good.

In simple terms, a sweeper keeper is a goalkeeper who controls the space behind the defensive line by pushing up and staying as close to it as possible and actively participating in his team’s play when they have the ball thereby operating as an eleventh outfield player. Modern football is all about space management and control and having your goalkeeper push up behind your defence, enables the team to effectively control that space.

That's why I think Dorel is superior to any keeper we have had in recent seasons as he prefers to play with his back line pushed well out away from him. Contrast that with the likes of Rice and that American fella who were inveterate line huggers and allowed the back line to get under their feet and in the way whilst conceding ground unnecessarily.

“In my teams, the goalkeeper is the first attacker and the centre forward is the first defender” ~ JOHAN CRYUFF

The father of total football Johan Cryuff put great emphasis on the technical abilities of every member of his team including the goal keeper. His philosophy which has greatly influenced his heir Pep Guardiola is all about mastery of space and being able to break through successive lines of opposition pressure to score; it is in this regard that a keeper acting as the eleventh outfield player becomes important. In football, 80% of the game is spent either trying to progress the ball through successive zones or trying to stop the ball from being progressed cleanly, this is the basis of attacking and defending, and that is why teams will usually instruct their furthest forward player to do whatever he can to restrict the opposition’s build up. It is in the first phase build up that the greatest danger lies for the team in possession because if they lose the ball there, the opposition has a shorter path to goal and can attack them directly. However, when the opposition presses with the same number of attackers as the team in possession has defenders to build up with the goal keeper becomes a vital means of creating an initial overload necessary for a clean progression.

Pep Guardiola has used this principle to devastating effect during his relatively short coaching career in which He has won 22 trophies in just 8 years. The first person to play this role for him was current Middlesbrough goal keeper Victor Valdes and all through his career he has shown a liking for keepers who do more than just keep.

I wish I had been there to see this put in practice last night!
As said by Mellow Yellow, it wasn't a masterclass like you'd see at the elite level, but it was something I had not seen used so effectively in lower-league football before. The easiest thing we could have done to put an instant stop to it would have been to leave two players up when defending set plays, but we did not do that once. By doing that, we'd have a) brought another Sutton defender back, and b) forced their keeper back into their defensive third as opposed to being near half way. Such a simple tweak, and one I was expecting to see change in the second half, but it didn't, if I recall correctly.

I myself am a huge fan of the Cruyff/Guardiola philosophy and agree that times have changed for a number of positions in this sport. Goalkeepers are no longer just shot stoppers, as you say. Central defenders are no longer expected to 'clear as far as you can', but actually be able to retain and then build possession in the defensive third. Unfortunately, our defenders (Gowling apart) appear to see who can kick or head the ball the furthest, which is never going to end well. I personally believe McGinty is the worst 'captain' I've seen at Plainmoor. He is not a leader, he is quiet, and 9 times out of 10 it is he who creates more panic by constantly conceding possession.

Some of our players are so behind the times and we play a style that I think even confuses our coaching duo at times - which is a complete recipe for disaster in my book!
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Post by stephen breed »

what an awful couple of results Torquay have had like people have said its the hope that kills and when you pick up 7 points out of 9 and are looking at 2 home games your confidence going into those game should have been sky high to lose both is just an absolute killer.. One thing I did notice the manager looks like he's just be given life without parole he speaking like the end of the world is nigh get your bloody head up and start inspiring people around you and yourself that's what managing is...
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Post by greb46 »

That's the problem with him he's so uninspiring, comes across to me every time he speaks that he lost £500 and found £10.Not surprising the players don't give there all.
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Post by stephen breed »

I agree totally greb46
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Post by nickbrod »

Strange that players he's brought in, who he had used at Bath City, all say they enjoy and want to play for Owers.
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Of course they enjoy it, they don't have to do much to earn their wedge.
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Post by Dazza »

Owers can't help the fact he has a flat voice. What is far more worrying is that he seems unable to motivate. His track record provides no hope that he can perform miracles to keep us up or put us in the play offs next year. He has failed, he knows it, the fans know it, even Osbourn knows it. For all - the GM, the Chairman, and Owers himself to hide away and say nothing speaks volumes. We are being treated like a dead dog track.
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