Ambition or Submission?

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Ambition or Submission?

Post by Yorkieandy » 14 Jan 2018, 10:35

alitufc wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:33
My understanding is that to hand out leaflets on the street TUST needs permission from the council. This is being checked out.
I'd just say bugger them and do it anyway. Fly tippers get away with worse. There are flyers stuck to lamposts and fences all over advertising services but I fully appreciate the correct channels have to be adhered to and fair play for looking into this.
At last! A TUST member!


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Post by Plainmoor78 » 14 Jan 2018, 10:36

Yorkieandy wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:18
Plainmoor78 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:15
If TUST wanted to hand out leaflets in the ground or campaign they would need the clubs permission and I doubt that would be forthcoming. Also handing out leaflets near the ground might lead to legal action by the club.
I can't see how they can enforce a ban on handing out leaflets in streets away from Plainmoor but i'm not a legal expert so wouldn't know. Be a bit odd though. I mean they own the football club but not the streets surrounding. Interesting point though and I think there are many ways around this.
No they don't control the streets, but you would have to be very careful as to the content of the leaflet. The club would only have to hint at liable meaning the onus would be on TUST to prove their allegations in a court of law. Remember Nick Bye and the covenant on tor abbey. Bye told the Cary trust he could afford to drag them through the courts for long enough for them to run out of money before he did. Clark Osbourne no doubt has that financial clout.


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Post by merse btpir » 14 Jan 2018, 10:43

Promoting Torquay United in the community in a positive light has to be the name of the game. And supporting TUFC and 'Torquay United Sports in the Community Trust', in their work in the community. That is so important if you want to engage the community at large in the fight to keep the club from falling to predatory manoeuvring.

The trust have also established regular monthly meetings with TUFC since the beginning of the season, albeit with Tim Herbert and Geoff Harrop representing the club owner and staff. I'm told the dialogue is constructive and structured, as per Football Supporterts' Federation and Supporters Direct guidelines.This does include being in an agreed position of being a 'critical friend' when necessary.

Because of that I foresee no problem in the trust having a table (s) within the ground on matchdays.......as ever it's a question of willing manpower and I don't think it is fair to lable the trust as incompetent because they don't appear to currently have this.


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Post by westyorkshiregull » 14 Jan 2018, 10:48

Plainmoor78 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:36
Yorkieandy wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:18
Plainmoor78 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:15
If TUST wanted to hand out leaflets in the ground or campaign they would need the clubs permission and I doubt that would be forthcoming. Also handing out leaflets near the ground might lead to legal action by the club.
I can't see how they can enforce a ban on handing out leaflets in streets away from Plainmoor but i'm not a legal expert so wouldn't know. Be a bit odd though. I mean they own the football club but not the streets surrounding. Interesting point though and I think there are many ways around this.
No they don't control the streets, but you would have to be very careful as to the content of the leaflet. The club would only have to hint at liable meaning the onus would be on TUST to prove their allegations in a court of law. Remember Nick Bye and the covenant on tor abbey. Bye told the Cary trust he could afford to drag them through the courts for long enough for them to run out of money before he did. Clark Osbourne no doubt has that financial clout.
Stick to fact


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Post by Soupdragon » 14 Jan 2018, 11:38

Yes, you need a permit to hand out leaflets on the street (TUST isn't a registered charity or a registered political organisation); it's about £220 for six people (can't have more than six). Took me one minute to find out that.

The area gets the club it deserves, yes, but the club also gets the support it deserves. What has TUFC done for the local community lately (discounting FITC)? At least Nicho had the players turning up at the kids' ward at the hospital. These days, what links are there - non-football-related - to the community? A business networking breakfast club. I can't think of anything else. Time was, there were all sorts of community and external things going on. Heck, I even went to a TUFC-themed day of racing at Newton Abbot in years gone past.

And as for the TUST, I'm rapidly losing confidence in their ability to achieve anything. We are told that there are 'regular meetings' between our trust and the club, but - to my knowledge - we have never been told anything about them. I appreciate there may be commercial confidentiality issues, but date and length of meeting, who attended, broad brush strokes of items discussed, something - ANYTHING - that has been agreed to take forward.

I made the suggestion ages ago that their website should be kept up to date with information for members. On 8 September 2016, I emailed TUST the following:

I think it would be useful to keep an archive of all the emails and newsletters e-mailed to members by the Trust (apart from only administrative emails, of course).
Might it also be a nice idea if there was a part of the site members could contribute to, by - say - uploading pics of themselves in their TUFC shirts at matches, at away games, at national and overseas landmarks ... that sort of thing. Maybe even include a world map showing where members are around the world?
However, I think the main thing has to be to demonstrate that the Trust is an active and vibrant organisation so perhaps you should consider a blog that can be updated at least two or three times a week by committee members. It needn't be too onerous: aided by a glass (or two), I'm sure the committee could come up with at least 20 different idea for postings, and could also get guest postings from team members about particular games or training regimes or suchlike.
I'd be wary of getting club directors to submit guest postings unless they avoid the sort of drivel fed to the Herald. You all know better than me the mess the club is in, so I imagine you would want to steer clear of appearing to be just a conduit for the same-old, same-old whitewash and/or collection tin rattling.


I can't be the only one who's made a similar suggestion; I'm not that special. But, nearly a year and a half later, nada. Yet it's such a simple and cheap thing to do.

We are also told that 'a letter' has been sent to Clarke Osborne. As a member - this letter was after all, sent on my, and your, behalf - I asked for a copy. I was told that I couldn't have one, that it would be "unfair" to Mr Osborne. But how can I - or anyone - consider his response if we are not aware of what, and precisely how, the questions have been asked?

There is simply no point in having a trust - especially at a time like this when the very existence of our club is truly in jeopardy - unless those who lead it are properly up for the fight. Are they?


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Post by westyorkshiregull » 14 Jan 2018, 11:47

Not sure on that leaflet thing says you have to contact the council. Don't think unless your selling products you would have to pay


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Post by Plainmoor78 » 14 Jan 2018, 11:56

westyorkshiregull wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 11:47
Not sure on that leaflet thing says you have to contact the council. Don't think unless your selling products you would have to pay
In the Torbay council website it says charities, political parties and religious groups are exempt from seeking permission, everyone else needs a license.


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Post by westyorkshiregull » 14 Jan 2018, 12:01

Regardless if we had to pay we have to pay. We got to put our money where our mouth is if we want things to get done. I'm happy to contribute towards anything like that. Unless we start our own religion

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Post by Chris_F » 14 Jan 2018, 12:43

As a former chair of TUST I was somewhat put out, to say the least, when offers of help and advice were ignored by the previous chairman. I think it's a shame, and also speaks volumes, that the TUST in times of social media etc and with the club under immense threat have such a small database of members.

When we originally started the TUST we manned the turnstiles every game for 10 games handing out membership forms and fliers, we handed out 1,000's of yellow balloons for games, involved local business groups and communities. We quickly grew membership to 500+ in a matter of a couple of months.
Above all, you can't be afraid to stick your head above the parapet, and when you do you have to be ready for and expect, the consequences.

I may be, and probably am, behind the times but my attitude is one of 'don't sit in meetings or behind a keyboard talking - get out there and do something to increase membership FFS' Once the membership is increased TUST will have to be taken more seriously than it currently is, then and only then can you start looking properly at money. If you do it the other way round it will backfire.

I know from talking to previous club employees that the TUST shot themselves in the foot with what the club saw as an aggressive attitude. Their words to me were that the TUST was more a political animal than a supporters representation. They saw them as a threat rather than a body that wanted to help the club as a whole. Whether that is the case or not (which it most certainly wasn't), it's certainly the perception that the club had of them. No wonder they didn't give them a look in!! If you are going to attempt an aggressive takeover you have to have the clout to do it, otherwise you' won't be taken seriously....

If the current board want help or advice the offer is still there, my time is very limited with one thing or another but so long as it's taking action of some sort - any sort - rather than just talking the talk and watching the club fall apart around our ears I'm happy to help.

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Post by Southampton Gull » 14 Jan 2018, 12:46

Matt Gorman wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 09:40
*FAO Dave / Southamption Gull*

Morning Dave

I have just sent you (or thought I had anyway!) a private e-mail..I just wanted to make sure you have received it as it is not showing in my sent messages

Thanks

Matt Gorman
Hi Matt, I've not received anything so I'll message you with my personal email address on here.
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Post by Southampton Gull » 14 Jan 2018, 12:51

alitufc wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:02
Thank you westyorkshiregull, we do appreciate your membership. I see Matt has emailed Dave/Southampton Gull regarding his concerns. I could spend all day putting forward my personal views in response to comments such as we are incompetent. I would love for the TUST to be visible all over the ground and handing out leaflets. There is simply not enough people who are willing to commit their time. I am hoping this is changing. I personally cannot get to the game till well after 2pm. Aargh it is so frustrating. Thank you once again for your membership. Ali Bryant.
Ali, I replied to you on Facebook yesterday and I apologise if anything I've written has upset you personally. I responded on Facebook to you and have no axe to grind with you personally whatsoever and I am genuinely sorry if you've taken anything I've written as a personal insult, I promise you that was not my intention at all, my gripe was with the attitude of Michel Thomas, not you at all.
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Post by Southampton Gull » 14 Jan 2018, 12:53

Plainmoor78 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 10:15
If TUST wanted to hand out leaflets in the ground or campaign they would need the clubs permission and I doubt that would be forthcoming. Also handing out leaflets near the ground might lead to legal action by the club.
I didn't suggest they should hand them out in the ground and you quite rightly suggest this wouldn't be possible. The club, however they might try, cannot stop anything out on the street and definitely cannot stop individuals approaching fans before they enter the ground. At away games there would only be Harrop enjoying his free slap up lunch anyway.
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Post by Southampton Gull » 14 Jan 2018, 12:58

Soupdragon wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 11:38
Yes, you need a permit to hand out leaflets on the street (TUST isn't a registered charity or a registered political organisation); it's about £220 for six people (can't have more than six). Took me one minute to find out that.

The area gets the club it deserves, yes, but the club also gets the support it deserves. What has TUFC done for the local community lately (discounting FITC)? At least Nicho had the players turning up at the kids' ward at the hospital. These days, what links are there - non-football-related - to the community? A business networking breakfast club. I can't think of anything else. Time was, there were all sorts of community and external things going on. Heck, I even went to a TUFC-themed day of racing at Newton Abbot in years gone past.

And as for the TUST, I'm rapidly losing confidence in their ability to achieve anything. We are told that there are 'regular meetings' between our trust and the club, but - to my knowledge - we have never been told anything about them. I appreciate there may be commercial confidentiality issues, but date and length of meeting, who attended, broad brush strokes of items discussed, something - ANYTHING - that has been agreed to take forward.

I made the suggestion ages ago that their website should be kept up to date with information for members. On 8 September 2016, I emailed TUST the following:

I think it would be useful to keep an archive of all the emails and newsletters e-mailed to members by the Trust (apart from only administrative emails, of course).
Might it also be a nice idea if there was a part of the site members could contribute to, by - say - uploading pics of themselves in their TUFC shirts at matches, at away games, at national and overseas landmarks ... that sort of thing. Maybe even include a world map showing where members are around the world?
However, I think the main thing has to be to demonstrate that the Trust is an active and vibrant organisation so perhaps you should consider a blog that can be updated at least two or three times a week by committee members. It needn't be too onerous: aided by a glass (or two), I'm sure the committee could come up with at least 20 different idea for postings, and could also get guest postings from team members about particular games or training regimes or suchlike.
I'd be wary of getting club directors to submit guest postings unless they avoid the sort of drivel fed to the Herald. You all know better than me the mess the club is in, so I imagine you would want to steer clear of appearing to be just a conduit for the same-old, same-old whitewash and/or collection tin rattling.


I can't be the only one who's made a similar suggestion; I'm not that special. But, nearly a year and a half later, nada. Yet it's such a simple and cheap thing to do.

We are also told that 'a letter' has been sent to Clarke Osborne. As a member - this letter was after all, sent on my, and your, behalf - I asked for a copy. I was told that I couldn't have one, that it would be "unfair" to Mr Osborne. But how can I - or anyone - consider his response if we are not aware of what, and precisely how, the questions have been asked?

There is simply no point in having a trust - especially at a time like this when the very existence of our club is truly in jeopardy - unless those who lead it are properly up for the fight. Are they?

Hallelujah. It isn't rocket science is it? The problems you brilliantly highlight meet with my experience of TUST over several years. I was ready to abandon my personal feelings and get fully behind TUST but my initial contact and what has been said since have left me feeling totally disillusioned. We need a strongwilled and proactive body of people but I'll say no more until I've spoken to them at TUST as the last thing I want is to damage any ghood work they are doing.
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Post by Plainmoor78 » 14 Jan 2018, 14:17

westyorkshiregull wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 12:01
Unless we start our own religion
Its already a suicide cult.

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Post by MellowYellow » 14 Jan 2018, 15:07

Plainmoor78 wrote:
14 Jan 2018, 11:56
In the Torbay council website it says charities, political parties and religious groups are exempt from seeking permission, everyone else needs a license.
Torquay Utd is a religion to me, I pray every week for a win, I pray regularly we don't get relegated, I pray we can score a goal and call all my fellow supporters 'brethren'. So you can use me as a follower of the religious cult 'A Creed of One Seeking the Truth'.
KEEP THE FAITH!
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