TUST Updates

Discuss everything TUFC with fans across the globe.
Yorkieandy
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Post by Yorkieandy »

Spot on.

Merse thinks he's going to save the club but if, just if, his strategy is wrong then it will have as much impact as everything else we could try.

None

Sit back and relax everyone. Done that so far and its achieved nothing.

As Jerry said, the TUST is just a vehicle to express what the majority of fans want. Clearly they want to continue doing nothing and hoping which is partly why the club are in this mess. Never ever learn
Last edited by Yorkieandy on 26 Jan 2018, 13:05, edited 1 time in total.
Jerry
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Post by Jerry »

Yorkieandy wrote: 26 Jan 2018, 12:23
As Jerry said, the TUST is just a vehicle to express what the majority of fans want. Clearly they want to continue doing nothing and hoping which is partly why the club are in this mess. Never ever learn
**SIGH**

I don't know how many times I have to say this but...

Until next weeks meeting we DO NOT KNOW what the majority of TUST members want.
Yorkieandy
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Post by Yorkieandy »

I know that Jerry.

Just as there was perhaps no need for my 'arsehole' remark on another thread then you do the same with the sigh. :nod:

Do i expect there to be an overwhelming sweeping movement from fans to fight for club and get the current owners to leave?

No. I expect everyone to take the more conservative approach offered up by Merse et al which will also achieve nothing. The club could go bust and i'm getting criticism for being a little bit hostile! You can't make it up.

I already know the outcome of next weeks meeting which is more of the same passiveness.

If it turns out not to be the case and fellow Gulls have really, really, really had enough of people in the past (and possibly in the future) trying to shaft them and get away with it like they say they have a campaign begins then i'll increase my TUST membership significantly. If it's more of what i predict then i really can't see why being a member is in any way positive or necessary.

In actual fact i'm getting that feeling where i'm starting to feel once again under siege by fellow fans who i am trying to help (in my own way which nobody seems to understand) and starting to get bitter and frustrated against them. I don't like Osborne or agree with how he's running the club but i'm beginning to start thinking what the hell. Why try and help people who won't help themselves. Clarke has taken over and kept the club running. More than anyone else has done or tried to do. Maybe i've got it wrong about him? I'm just confused about the whole thing. All i've ever wanted is someone to run the club like they love it like their own child yet we keep getting lumbered with the opposite. Is that too much to ask?
Last edited by Yorkieandy on 26 Jan 2018, 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Midlandgull »

I have to say I agree with the final paragraph of Yorkieandy there. There has to be a clear big/bold/hairy goal and vision and we've got to set out plans to do it - else the membership is potentially unnecessary - why have any funds if we're not going to do anything significant?

That said, I'm a new member from afar and I'm willing to give it a chance to develop but some tough questions and conversations are necessary - nothing personal to anyone at all. No time for any possible dilly-dallying.
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Post by Tired Old Gull »

QUOTE: "As Jerry said, the TUST is just a vehicle to express what the majority of fans want" .. that’s not true because I very much doubt if the majority of fans are TUST members, many not having even heard about it, let alone tried to get their head around what its objectives are.

Sadly this forthcoming meeting is for TUST members only, so those who are somewhat confused, like myself, are not able to attend.
I saw somewhere online that the TUST have around 500 members (please correct me if I am wrong), but the venue the meeting is to be at only holds 200 – so not even a majority of members can attend. And yes, I appreciate that many members are unable to attend for a huge number of reasons, but the TUST needs to get its cause and vision for the future across not only to all fans, but the population of Torbay as a whole – something it is currently not doing.
If they cannot clarify their objectives to us fans - how can they do it to the 'outsiders'?
merse btpir
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Post by merse btpir »

Yorkieandy wrote: 26 Jan 2018, 12:23Merse thinks he's going to save the club.......
You're very tiresome with your blinkered black & white view of anything said ~ OK,OK I know the reason why ~ but really; I have not stated that!
Last edited by merse btpir on 26 Jan 2018, 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
Yorkieandy
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Post by Yorkieandy »

merse btpir wrote: 26 Jan 2018, 13:23 You're very iresome with your blinkered black & white view of anything said ~ OK,OK I know the reason why ~ but really; I have not stated that!
Fair enough Merse. I accept that you didn't say that and it was wrong of me to suggest it so apologies.
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Post by Plymouth Gull »

I get the feeling that some would rather the Trust go around like a bull in a china shop, getting in people's faces and being generally annoying. I don't think this would be the way to go about things - trying to seek attention in that manner. The people within the Trust have no doubt been working tirelessly behind the scenes in recent months, looking for ways we can possibly become the owners of the ground. As Merse points out, other clubs have done that. As mentioned, the Trust is never going to have the funds to own the club in it's current state, but paying for the protection of Plainmoor would be a way to ensure football always has a place in Torbay. We don't know if they've found a way of doing this as yet, nor how much money they would need, but I imagine the meeting next week will go some way to providing some answers (or at least I hope so!).

Just because the Trust haven't come out and said we're going to make an offer to CO next week, it doesn't mean everybody involved is sitting on their hands supporting him, nor does it mean they're in favour of the way he is running things currently.
Uffculme1

Post by Uffculme1 »

Yorkandy and others on this forum who seem not to agree with the way things are going, the one theme you have in common is the survival and future success of the club, if you didn't care you wouldn't bother posting.
There are inescapable facts about the TUST and here the comments of Merse are 100 per cent correct, they cannot run the club ,now or anytime soon unless someone gives them the unlimited finance to mount a successful take over. You could mount a very limited damage limitation exercise against the club owners until those limited funds run out, then you have nothing. In my mind the energies and any finance available to the TUST should be used solely in protecting Plainmoor, i.e. making sure the covenants remain, the community asset restriction remains and the freehold if it ever becomes available is made available to the TUST first, because if that happened and the TUST made a fighting call for financial help then I believe we would meet any target within a month.
Now if any, or all of these things happen the TUST becomes a major player, they may not own the club but can dictate what happens to Plainmoor which seems to be Osborne's primary objective, then he would have no alternative but to sit down and negotiate, or he can just walk away.
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Post by Shangull »

Local guy with a million in the bank and another million to support the club buys out GI. Decides that best way to operate the club at lowest cost is to move to the Willows and develop multi use sports facility with artificial pitch. Strikes deal with council to enable Council money from development of Plainmoor to support new ground construction. Supporters trust given place on board and have open access to club owners and to offer opinion in decision making process. Club operates with part time players and club focused on being part of community. Club spends 10 years within lower half of National League and National League South. Intent of owners is for club to be self financing. Season tickets average £250 per season. Ownership is Local, benevolent and transparent. Would this be enough?
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Post by DB57 »

Uffculme1 wrote: 26 Jan 2018, 18:59 Yorkandy and others on this forum who seem not to agree with the way things are going, the one theme you have in common is the survival and future success of the club, if you didn't care you wouldn't bother posting.
There are inescapable facts about the TUST and here the comments of Merse are 100 per cent correct, they cannot run the club ,now or anytime soon unless someone gives them the unlimited finance to mount a successful take over. You could mount a very limited damage limitation exercise against the club owners until those limited funds run out, then you have nothing. In my mind the energies and any finance available to the TUST should be used solely in protecting Plainmoor, i.e. making sure the covenants remain, the community asset restriction remains and the freehold if it ever becomes available is made available to the TUST first, because if that happened and the TUST made a fighting call for financial help then I believe we would meet any target within a month.
Now if any, or all of these things happen the TUST becomes a major player, they may not own the club but can dictate what happens to Plainmoor which seems to be Osborne's primary objective, then he would have no alternative but to sit down and negotiate, or he can just walk away.
:goodpost:
merse btpir
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Post by merse btpir »

Shangull wrote: 27 Jan 2018, 12:21 Local guy with a million in the bank and another million to support the club buys out GI. Decides that best way to operate the club at lowest cost is to move to the Willows and develop multi use sports facility with artificial pitch. Strikes deal with council to enable Council money from development of Plainmoor to support new ground construction. Supporters trust given place on board and have open access to club owners and to offer opinion in decision making process. Club operates with part time players and club focused on being part of community. Club spends 10 years within lower half of National League and National League South. Intent of owners is for club to be self financing. Season tickets average £250 per season. Ownership is Local, benevolent and transparent. Would this be enough?
The first hurdle you ignore is the 'GI issue' whereby they have never built a stadium in their history yet have closed several.....that is the vital and most pressing matter of fact there is.

Without acknowledgement of that; there can be no consideraion of your very worthy presentation.
Yorkieandy
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Post by Yorkieandy »

Doesn't Shangull mean that GI get bought out and THEN a new stadium is built by the new owners? So therefore it doesn't matter about GI's history any more. Not sure if i've got that right and it's what Shangull means.

The rest of it i personally would be happy with. I simply want a sustainable club run by owners (or fans) whose top priority and whose constant focus is the wellbeing of both. That would be incredible in whatever league.
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Post by Shangull »

I do Teigngull. It feels a little unclear on what fans wish to achieve. Is it securing Plainmoor as a football ground or the future of Torquay United? I don't think the first does the second. I don't really mind where we play, I don't really mind what league it's in, I do mind that there is at least some enjoyment in going to the game and supporting the team regardless of the result. It all feels a bit toxic at the moment. I don't understand what TUST do or do with any money collected. It seemed one of their objectives was "data management".....in the current predicament they should have a bigger goal that all can get behind. In simple terms I do think if the council close the door on development of Plainmoor to GI then there can be no interest in TUFC from GI. What's the point in something that is a loss making hassle? I do think that with realistic expectations and the support of fans a little financially and a little by helping and volunteering the club could come together again. TUST or similar should be trying to pull us all together for that goal. I know it's not as simple as this but if 1500 fans bought £500 of shares in a company then that company has £750k to buy out GI and start again. Given the current losses and hassle I don't think it would take £750k to do this. I'm not sure what TUST do with their subscriptions but given that for £20 per month (£240 per year) they appear to be giving you leaflets if they aspire to having more members then what do they plan to do with the money? Given the value of TUFC it won't take much to buy the club at some point. Bearing in mind we got into this mess for the sake of a small amount of money loaned from GI
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Post by greb46 »

Sounds good in principle the problems are that it may be difficult for individual supporters to find that kind of money then afterwards if it were to happen are the on going costs .CO probably values the ground at much more than 750k if it were for building on so would want to retain I would think.Merse on an earlier post seemed to think that the council couldn't guarantee to hold the free hold due to the council officers changing over time and that the Torbay Development Agency has the power of the freehold. Not up on the legalities myself and your idea sounds good but unfortunately I doubt it could all fall into place as we wish.What I gathered from earlier posts is that TUST would not have the legal position to own/run the club.To my mind it needs not only finance but legally minded people to take things further if it were to reach that point. As you say a tangled mess at present.
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