tufc in crisis

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Post by Yorkieandy »

dawlishmatt wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:15 The reason i believe that Torquay United will always be alive is simple. I agree with what a lot of what merse says. Over the last 20 years or so, football has changed a lot. The rich have got richer, the poor are now poorer. HALIFAX, MAIDSTONE, SOUTHPORT, WORKINGTON, LUTON,PORTSMOUTH, PLYMOUTH, EXETER, BOURNEMOUTH, DARLINGTON, YORK, SCARBOROUGH, to name but a few, are some of the clubs i can think of that have gone bust and look at them now. Luton top of league 2, Exeter looking good for the play offs, plymouth doing ok in league 1 along with portsmouth, Bournemouth who just a few seasons ago started in league 2 with a -10 point deduction now a premier league club, maidstone and Halifax doing ok in our league. Clubs do bounce back and whatever happens this season or in the future, thats why im confident that Torquay will never die.
York didn't go bust. Nearly though as did Pompey, Exeter, Plymouth, Bournemouth, Chesterfield and Mansfield. All similar situations to Hartlepool now. As far as i'm aware Luton didn't go bust either. Darlo did as did Scarborough and Halifax.

Chester did and are above TUFC now. Hereford did and are on the rise.

The poor clubs get poorer simply due to being run shoddily. They are businesses at the end of the day and if they aren't run like one then they'll be in trouble.
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Post by Jerry »

6667GULL wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:26 How much money would be needed? Hundreds of thousands? I don't know.
Be realistic whatever the figure is it is not going to be raised from a fan base of under 2,000.
As a supporter for 50 years I say let the club die with dignity and don't let all this cr*p carry on any longer.
Newport fans raised over £200,000 in a month to buy their club. They've always had a similar size fanbase to us so if they can why can't we?
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Post by Neal »

God help us, are we seriously discussing this again.

CO is in it for the money, get it, the money!!

A nice purpose built stadium, with a bloody BIG rent, jeez do some of you think it's gonna be a nice low rent so we can have a nice playing budget. Why the f@ck would a business man who doesn't even like football do that.

I really do despair how some people are so bloody naive and gullible.
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Post by gullintwoplaces »

Neal wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 15:38 God help us, are we seriously discussing this again.

CO is in it for the money, get it, the money!!

A nice purpose built stadium, with a bloody BIG rent, jeez do some of you think it's gonna be a nice low rent so we can have a nice playing budget. Why the f@ck would a business man who doesn't even like football do that.

I really do despair how some people are so bloody naive and gullible.
It has been spelled out time and time again. Property developers don’t do charity, they don’t do anything for communities unless forced to through Section 106 requirements, they don’t do anything without profit in mind, they play a long game and they keep their cards close to the chests. I’ve acted for a few in my professional life, always washed my hands after shaking hands with them.
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Post by Southampton Gull »

Neal wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 15:38 God help us, are we seriously discussing this again.

CO is in it for the money, get it, the money!!

A nice purpose built stadium, with a bloody BIG rent, jeez do some of you think it's gonna be a nice low rent so we can have a nice playing budget. Why the f@ck would a business man who doesn't even like football do that.

I really do despair how some people are so bloody naive and gullible.
Join those that despair. One little thing though, I'm pretty certain that he doesn't have any intentions of building a stadium to gather rent, why would he as it's unlikely he would ever profit from a rented out stadium and he's never actually built one anyway.
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Post by merse btpir »

merse btpir wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:24 Funny you should mention that, but some twenty or so years back an acquaintance of mine who used to post as Billy The Bee on the Brentford forums got similar treatment when he got wind of the fact that David Webb (who had just breezed in after being sacked at Chelsea) was going to get a stake in Brentford FC where he next popped up as manager as a front for Ron Noades (and we all recognise the ramifications of that) and in the event it all duly came to pass when Webb 'acquired an ownership' stake in the club and resigned as manager. Webb then 'sold the club on' to Noades in June 1998

For those younger posters and readers on here, it's worth detailing how Noades made his fortune and indeed what the ramifications were of him being involved in any football club ~ and there were a few: Southall, Wimbledon (where he was trying to re-locate to Milton Keynes twenty years before it ever came about despite their fan base trying to gloss over that FACT) Crystal Palace and finally Brentford. All caught up in land grabs and double dealings when being sold on........


The Southall ground is long gone now; demolished and replaced by housing after being vacate dina terrible state of disrepair and neglect before the club finally gave up and called it a day there.

Noades then took over Wimbledon, who were elected to the Football League in 1977. They won promotion from the Fourth Division in only their second season as a Football League club, although they were relegated after just one season. He then entered tentative talks with the Milton Keynes Development Corporation with a view to relocating the club to the new town some 70 miles away in Buckinghamshire, but nothing came of this. Ironically, Wimbledon would ultimately be relocated to Milton Keynes more than 20 years later.

Noades remained chairman of Wimbledon until 1981, when the club won a second promotion to the Third Division. Just before departing, he appointed Dave Bassett as manager ~ a move which would bring the club great success. Although their second spell in the Third Division only lasted one season, they earned an instant return and eventually reached the First Division in 1986, where they finished sixth in their first season before Bassett stepped down. Wimbledon would survive in the top division of English football until 2000, winning the FA Cup in 1988.

As Crystal Palace chairman, he led them through their brightest period, which included promotion to the old First Division (1989), an FA Cup final (1990), a third-placed finish in the First Division (1991), and winning the Full Members Cup (also 1991). He took the club over just after their relegation from the First Division in 1981, and after three difficult seasons where they narrowly avoided dropping into the Third Division, the turning point came in May 1984 when he appointed the former Manchester United and England winger Steve Coppell as manager following his retirement from playing through injury.

In 1985-86, Palace fell just short of promotion to the First Division, but they had just added striker Ian Wright from non-league Greenwich Borough to their ranks, and then signed striker Mark Bright from Leicester City to create what was undoubtedly the most prolific strike force in the club's history. Promotion finally occurred in 1989, and a year later Palace took Manchester United to a replay in the final of the FA Cup before a narrow defeat. They finished third in the league a year later.

In 1991, Noades provoked controversy with his comments on the racial make-up of his team: "The black players at this club lend the side a lot of skill and flair, but you also need white players in there to balance things up and give the team some brains and some common sense." The fall-out led to several black players leaving the club, including key players Ian Wright, Mark Bright and Andy Gray.

Palace were relegated from the FA Premier League in 1993 at the end of its first season, but were promoted a year later, only to go down again after just one season, during which they were semi-finalists in both domestic cups. Promotion was achieved for the third time in less than a decade in 1997, but again Palace were relegated after just one season.

In 1998, Noades sold his interest in Palace to recruitment tycoon Mark Goldberg (now the owner of Welling United) for £22,000,000 (although Noades actually lent Goldberg £5,000,000 of this, as he could not afford it). Despite being advised against purchasing the club by Noades' own accountants, Goldberg continued with the negotiations. Noades had offered the club for £9m to a consortium of Kent and Surrey businessmen the previous year. The fee included the club and its players' contracts, but significantly not Selhurst Park Stadium, Palace's home ground. As the club prepared for relegation from the Premier League, Noades acted as caretaker manager, after the appointment of Attilio Lombardo and Tomas Brolin failed to save Palace from relegation. Head coach Terry Venables took over management of the team following Noades departure from the club that summer.

With the sale of club completed, Goldberg's financiers withdrew their interest, and he found himself in debt to Noades. The club went through a subsequent administration, which lasted until 2000.

After leaving Palace he became chairman, and subsequently also first team manager of recently relegated Division Three side Brentford from July 1998, taking the side back to Division Two at the first time of asking, earning Noades the divisional Manager of the Year Award. He ended both roles in 2000, and sold his majority shareholding in the club to supporters group Bees United in January 2006. Noades' considerable loans to the club were repaid by current owner Matthew Benham in 2007.

Former Crystal Palace chairman Simon Jordan made public his intentions to either purchase and re-develop Selhurst Park, or move to a new stadium. However, Noades announced in April 2006 that Jordan had not made any offers for the stadium which he still owned, and that he had no intention of selling it either. Nonetheless, in October 2006, Jordan announced he had purchased the freehold of the stadium site four days previously for £12m, using an investment mechanism that kept his identity secret. It later turned out that this was incorrect and the freehold was owned by companies under the control of Paul Kersley of Mayfair-based Rock Investments, who was also a director of Tottenham Hotspur....... Jordan announced in April 2008 that he had secured the football club a 25-year lease for Selhurst Park Stadium together with the option to purchase the freehold within that period. Unbeknownst to Jordan, Ron Noades and Paul Kemsley knew each other and Noades was fully aware of what Jordan was doing prior to agreeing to the sale. Noades in fact wrote to Jordan prior to accepting the offer through Kemsley's investment group and offered him the Stadium for the same price. Jordan never replied and so Kemsley was allowed to purchase Selhurst Park.

Noades also owned several golf courses in south-east England. Known as the Altonwood Group, it includes Surrey National Golf Club (formerly Happy Valley), Westerham Golf Club, The Addington Golf Club, Woldingham Golf Club (formerly Dukes Dene) and Godstone Golf Club (on a site formerly used as Crystal Palace's training ground).

The link is of course that every one of those grounds became the focal point of speculative wheeling and dealing with the object of closing them down and developipng housing on them. Southall, where it was achieved, Plough Lane where it happened too, and whilst Selhurst Park remains under the current ownership of the football club.

In April 2008, a 25-year lease was granted to Crystal Palace at an annual rent of £1.2m. The Rock Group went into administration in June 2009, the management of the freehold was taken on by PwC acting on behalf of Lloyds Bank, which now own HBOS. PwC expected to sell it within two years. The club and Selhurst Park stadium were purchased off them by the CPFC 2010 consortium in June 2010, leading to the stadium and Football Club being united in a company for the first time since 1998.

Griffin Park of course is still the object of future development plans with Brentford's hopes of moving to a new 20,000-capacity stadium after the club was given an option to buy a 7.6-acre site at Lionel Road, less than a mile away from Griffin Park. The project was halted in 2010 due to the economic downturn and partners Barratt Homes pulled out of the deal in January 2011. In June 2012, the club bought the Lionel Road site from Barratt Homes. Outline planning approval was given by the London Borough of Hounslow in December 2013, with the Mayor of London's office giving their approval in February 2014. Eric Pickles (then-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government) gave final approval for the stadium in March 2014 and a development agreement was signed with Willmott Dixon in December 2014.

The commencement of work on the Lionel Road site was held up through 2015 due to First Industrial Ltd (which owned the final parcel of land needed to begin development) objecting to a compulsory purchase order by Hounslow Council. Hounslow Council completed the acquisition of the land in September 2016 and on-site preparation for construction began in late March 2017. In August 2017, it was announced that construction will begin in early 2018, "with the aim of completion by late 2019 or early 2020..it still hasn't started indicating just how prolonged these processes take and just how ludicrous the promise of a new stadium for Torquay United by 2020 is.

Griffin Park seems to have been forever the object of desire for the property developers and various owners of Brentford FC have been licking their lips with anticipation over the years.

With Brentford in the Fourth Division and heavily in debt in the late 1960s, in March 1968 Jim Gregory (chairman of West London rivals Queens Park Rangers) offered £250,000 to buy the ground and move Queens Park Rangers to Griffin Park. Former Brentford chairman Walter Wheatley stepped in and provided the club with a £69,000 loan to fight them off.

In 1998, then-chairman Ron Noades acquired the freehold of Griffin Park, through his company Griffin Park Stadium Limited. With Noades declaring he would only fund the clubfor two years, the prospect of the sale of Griffin Park for development looked likely until 2006, when supporters' trust Bees United bought his majority shareholding. Noades' loans to the club were repaid by current owner Matthew Benham in 2007 and the Bees were finally out of Noades' clutches
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Post by Southampton Gull »

I worked in Southall at about the time Alan Devonshire was manager. They used to get fairly decent crowds back then.
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Post by lucy6lucy »

Yorkieandy wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 14:46 York didn't go bust. Nearly though as did Pompey, Exeter, Plymouth, Bournemouth, Chesterfield and Mansfield. All similar situations to Hartlepool now. As far as i'm aware Luton didn't go bust either. Darlo did as did Scarborough and Halifax.

Chester did and are above TUFC now. Hereford did and are on the rise.

The poor clubs get poorer simply due to being run shoddily. They are businesses at the end of the day and if they aren't run like one then they'll be in trouble.
You're missing Brighton out, had they not won I think at Hereford they would have been playing non league football a few years back. Workington town is hardly a casualty
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Post by portugull »

The way I see the tragedy that is playing out in plain site, the demise of the Club we love, is down to the naked ambition of one man. Mr. Harrop.
Clarke Osborne had, and has, no interest in Football but Harrop wanted to rule the roost at Plainmoor and urged Osborne to get involved against the better judgement of Osborne.
Osborne capitulated and Harrop got his wish.
If Harrop had never set foot in Torquay we would almost certainly be in a better place.
The reason Harrop could not find a Manager to replace Kevin Nicholson is clear. An experienced Manager when interviewed by Harrop would think this guy is a total looser and run a mile. Seriously who would want Harrop as a GM?
Under pressure Osborne bailed out Harrop with Gary Owers and Martin Kuhl but the new guys did not see the poisoned chalice until it was too late.
I bet Gary is wishing he had stayed at Bath City.
No one knows how this story will end but it will end in tears unless there is a miracle of epic proportions.
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Post by lucy6lucy »

portugull wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 19:43 The way I see the tragedy that is playing out in plain site, the demise of the Club we love, is down to the naked ambition of one man. Mr. Harrop.
Clarke Osborne had, and has, no interest in Football but Harrop wanted to rule the roost at Plainmoor and urged Osborne to get involved against the better judgement of Osborne.
Osborne capitulated and Harrop got his wish.
If Harrop had never set foot in Torquay we would almost certainly be in a better place.
The reason Harrop could not find a Manager to replace Kevin Nicholson is clear. An experienced Manager when interviewed by Harrop would think this guy is a total looser and run a mile. Seriously who would want Harrop as a GM?
Under pressure Osborne bailed out Harrop with Gary Owers and Martin Kuhl but the new guys did not see the poisoned chalice until it was too late.
I bet Gary is wishing he had stayed at Bath City.
No one knows how this story will end but it will end in tears unless there is a miracle of epic proportions.
Osborne is a prudent businessman who like most that are successful, hate failing investments. And even a small return is not enough. Harrop obviously is agrieved from being disposed of in our second league relegation after tbh building a successful youth team. Harrop will be feeling the pressure big time now, as I don't feel relegation this season was the plan. This year was about mid table consolidation to appease the fan base. Oh boy, has it gone pear shaped.
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Post by Admiral »

I have this evening joined the TUST for the first time after speaking with Michel Thomas on Facebook. The TUST need to move with the times and market themselves on social media so I have offered to help out in that department. From an outside view it’s very hard to see what the TUST are up to and that needs to change.

My despise for C.O is immense - myself and a small group of supporters were called idiots when we hung a banner outside Plainmoor expressing our concern at GI’s takeover. I wonder how many would be there today? It seems the only way the club is going to survive will be protecting Plainmoor in any way we can, if we have to start again so be it, I’m up for the challenge, but Plainmoor is THE defining piece
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Post by Yorkieandy »

Admiral wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 20:03 I have this evening joined the TUST for the first time after speaking with Michel Thomas on Facebook. The TUST need to move with the times and market themselves on social media so I have offered to help out in that department. From an outside view it’s very hard to see what the TUST are up to and that needs to change.

My despise for C.O is immense - myself and a small group of supporters were called idiots when we hung a banner outside Plainmoor expressing our concern at GI’s takeover. I wonder how many would be there today? It seems the only way the club is going to survive will be protecting Plainmoor in any way we can, if we have to start again so be it, I’m up for the challenge, but Plainmoor is THE defining piece
Can't argue with that Admiral and great post and a great effort. Do the trust have a website does anybody know?
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Post by Rjc70 »

Yorkieandy wrote: 10 Jan 2018, 20:06 Can't argue with that Admiral and great post and a great effort. Do the trust have a website does anybody know?
https://www.torquaysupporters.co.uk/
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Post by SuperNickyWroe »

Have just joined TUST.
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Post by CraigUnder »

Also joined tonight
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