Are these latest signings the last roll of the dice for TUFC

[tufcyellowarmy]

It certainly is a free world. And aren't we lucky for that!!

So stop belittling everyone else's post that may not follow your rule book and continue to state Facts and people may actually read your dribble you clearly spent ages writing.

[tufcyellowarmy]

Trying to stay on the topic of this thread . Has anyone got any idea or heard anything close to a rumour of any other on the pitch news, signings or other potential loanees.
The silence on the OS is like a news blackout during the war !

[Southampton Gull]

No but Harrop has just ordered an extra large pizza. BOGOF of course

[Yorkieandy]

I, for one, couldn't give two monkeys if people on here think Merse is 'outspoken'. I don't know him. Have never met him. But I read everything he posts on here because without his (and others) insight into some of the goings on at Plainmoor none of us would be any the wiser. And it should make no difference as to his location. So, he's in London, that makes him one of hundreds of exiles (myself included) that no longer live in or have any affiliation with the 'Bay... but we still have a passion for OUR club.

Our club is in a dark place right now and it doesn't look to be getting any brighter any time soon, so with this in mind we all need to forget about any petty differences we have with any posters on here (or any other Torquay forum) and concentrate on what is important.

Sure, some posters think going down the phoenix club route is the only option available to us. It's not. If we can bombard the powers-that-be who hold our club's future in their hands (the council primarily as I understand it) with our concerns over the future of OUR club and show just how passionate and loyal we are to what should be an asset to the 'Bay then maybe, just maybe, Osborne and his cronies will see no point sticking around waiting for a freehold that is not going to be for sale and disappear from whence they came. And, no, I'm not sure what the consequences of that will be.

I'm all for this United62 even though i still do believe that a phoenix club away from Plainmoor is the only option. If we are to try and influence the powers that be then i think a fans movement needs to be set up alongside the trust and both need to seriously flog this mantra of 'our club - our community' because as it stands now it all seems to be petering out to nothing.

There also needs to be more fans joining the trust and putting in so that there are funds to bridge any gap should GI just decide to bugger off. Could the trust become a registered charity (if it's not already) and utilize fans for various fundraising activities and have displays at games promoting the trust and the 'our club - our community' message so it becomes ingrained in everyone at TUFC.

This and only this is the last hope i feel and even then, even if GI put the club up for sale and the trust were able to step in...............would they sell back to the fans? I doubt it somehow although money does talk.

I don't feel that the trust is in a position at the minute to step in if GI pulled out let alone make any sort of bid to buy the club outright and run it but if this is the aim of fans then everyone seriously needs to pull together and get some momentum and money rolling in, momentum and money far in excess of what there is at the moment. (not being critical of anybody).

The general consensus i would presume is that fans want to stay at Plainmoor and have rid of GI. The only way that can possibly happen IMO is for some serious mobilization and commitment of a significant number of fans to create a group and organize themselves so that serious money can be raised and a serious and persistent campaign of support for an 'our club - our community' mandate. Then, if the time comes along with a lucky break then it's game on.

[notnow]

That a joint community/private enterprise bid can be put togther to make it viable for Osborne to see that there will be no point sticking around waiting for a freehold that is not going to be for sale; but this will take intense lobbying and effort to achieve.

Whilst wishing for that; I am under no illusion that where this has happened elsewhere in the football world ~ take Hereford and Portsmouth as examples ~ the supporters will have to take on board that it will be the private equity that will demand and procure the majority shareholding (even if it is only 51:49%) and that the starting price for buying out Osborne right now is more than likely somethwere around half a million.

Also what has to be clearly understood it is that it not viable to be a tenant of Osborne in any shape or form. Not in any hypothetical (for that is all he ever achieves) new stadium with him sitting nicely with the freehold of Plainmoor; nor at Plainmoor with him as the landlord!

Half a million I hate to sound negative but it seems a hell of an ambicious task to undertake to come up with those funds nevermind the ongoing commitments of running a club.
I guess you have to start somewhere! I'm sure this has been looked at before, but if the word was put out there and you could get fans to provide an affordable promisory note on a dummy run which if acheived could be set up more seriously second time around and then that could be legally binding if certain criteria was met ie a minimum £million, I dont know, without going into it in too much detail it would be interesting to find out. there is a hard core of say 1500 fans, if they all chucked in 1k (i know ...it's a lot, especially some of those hardcore will not have those funds available but there are some not so hardcore who might become interested in a share.)

1500 x £1000 = You work it out! that is if you are still reading this at this stage!!?

It might be crazy, I have zilch experience in purchasing football clubs but the question has been asked and I am answering it, whether it's pie in the sky is another matter but desperate times call upon desperate measures/solutions.

I would stump up a £grand for an interest in the club.anyone else??? the question is.... would that still be enough??? I've no idea....

[Southampton Gull]

It would be a very good start.

The problem as I see it is that other successful clubs seem to be at the heart of the local population. Locals identify with their football club and unfortunately with the demographic of Torbay as it is I can't see enough support being garnered no matter how well intentioned the majority of fans are.

[Yorkieandy]

It would be a very good start.

The problem as I see it is that other successful clubs seem to be at the heart of the local population. Locals identify with their football club and unfortunately with the demographic of Torbay as it is I can't see enough support being garnered no matter how well intentioned the majority of fans are.

That's what i was saying about getting a hardcore number and blitzing it. Week in week out. Events, fundraising, promoting, flags, banners, songs, social media output. Anything and everything. On it every day. Something new. New ideas, people getting involved, all working together. Bit of an inappropriate example i know but get each fan so committed so that each one treats the campaign like say they would if they had a family member who needed an urgent operation in America. Not just £2 a month and a newsletter, although again, not criticizing but as Dave says, it needs to be on a huge scale to have any legs. Not in terms of numbers of fans but the work and input each fan puts in to make it a collective juggernaut with momentum.

If the club only have 3 or 400 fans who really want this to work then that's all we've got to work with so accept it and see what everyone can do as a collective.

I know it sounds like fairyland thinking but it's what is needed or it's goodnight Vienna anyway IMO.

How about fans in certain demographic areas setting up their own supporters groups so exiles can come together and make a difference? A northern one. There's SNW Chris, Lucy, Bixie and loads of northern based Gulls. Just an idea but fans need to be joined up and not separated.

[MellowYellow]

The question for Torquay supporters is what they want their club to become. Whilst there appears a body of committed and hard-working supporters campaigning towards fan ownership, it has to be acknowledged that the critical mass is probably absent.

Let us say a plan is to transfer ownership over a five year period, during which Osborne is paid back hypothetically £1m in loans. The aim for a yearly figure raised of around £240,000, would need around 2,000 members paying on average £10 per month. Is that achievable? and what of those who sign up but who membership lapses and no longer contribute financially.

Lets not kid ourselves it would be a lot of hard work, so are there dedicated individuals out there who would be determined to make it work? The irony of a fan-based ownership is that you would have to think like Clarke Osborne - yes I said it! abeit without a property developers mind-set. As a Community-owned club supporters will be required to think about how the club can become a viable social enterprise . which not only puts out a competitive team on the park every week, but also is financially sustainable rather than rely on injecting significant capital (which we all seem to expect CO to do) and delivers social and community benefit such as: new stadium, 3G pitches, football academy, sports club etc. Can it be done? Well other clubs have shown it to be possible. What would be needed is to raise the bar on awareness (by whatever means) so supporters and the community as a whole can be proud committing to a community ownership bid which deliver real benefits to the town.

However, the question was raised about my preferred solution. I will put on record that I am not an avid fan of community ownership. Crowdfunding is one thing (and God know that is hard enough within itself) but one also has to think long and hard about running the business structure of the football club which is a whole different dimension and requires expert business skills in all areas of management (something lacking over the last decade). For me personally, the fans' investment is their support, while their return comes in the form of the emotional gratification all football fans desire, be it through chasing promotion, surviving relegation or a cup run. In order to guarantee this return, all a football club needs to do is exist. Whist we are sceptical of CO ulterior motives the club still exists and if GI accounts are anything to go by will continue to exist under the current owner or a new owner: "The Directors are in advanced negotiations to dispose of Riviera Stadium and it’s underlying investment in Torquay United AFC Ltd”.

The above said, should I be presented with the ultimatum of fan ownership or no club at all, I would not hesitate to transfer my allegiance to a fan-based society. Ultimately, though, for Torquay United, it is for the fans to decide what they want.

[Yorkieandy]

Good post.

There will never be anywhere near 2,000 members all contributing though sadly. The club may have 2,000 plus fans but you can expect over half to not contribute in any way and that's me being conservative.

Also, the prospect of even finding new owners should GI want to sell is remote IMO. The club has been up for sale before a few times and struggled to find a buyer. GI only got in through the back door as it was. The club will be in a worse and less saleable position next season with less fans and a league below NL.