Are these latest signings the last roll of the dice for TUFC

taxilady · Post by **taxilady** » 07 Jan 2018, 12:29

covenants tend to last as long as they are convenient. Like most things in life, money talks. It wouldn't be politically correct of me to suggest that backhanded money talks even louder (shouts even), so I won't suggest it .Obviously, corruption wouldn't exist in a lovely place like Torbay.

budegull1954 · Post by **budegull1954** » 07 Jan 2018, 12:48

It's obvious there will be no Great Escape no.3 this season, and I agree with all the posts on here. We simply haven't got the characters in the team that were around for Great Escape no. 1 - think MacDonald, Smith, Butler, Racchi, Harrad, Blissett. Last season we rode our luck and in the end it was Nicho's sheer passion for the club that saw us through. Hell, even Gallifuoco would be better than what we have at the moment (now doing so well at Dover of course). Crucial mistakes have been made this season eg. the ridiculously long time to appoint a new manager, sacking Nicho without even talking to other candidates first. Unfortunate injuries haven't helped of course. It's fairly obvious now that Owers and Kuhl have not got the contacts we thought they had, and even if they did no-one wants to come to a club bottom of the league. It'll take the greatest comeback since Lazarus to prevent certain relegation.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 07 Jan 2018, 12:51

Spot on Nina. At many organisations you don't get to the top and get to make key decisions on things with sheer hard work and moral honesty. You get there by manipulation, social maneuvering and with a general i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine approach. I'm not at all saying that anything underhand occurs but i'm saying that i believe councillors make decisions partly based on what is best for them, their careers and their profile. They don't make decisions 100% based on what is best for other people. (IMO).

If there is one who works tirelessly and puts their own careers at risk to speak up for what they believe in and fly in the face of the majority viewpoint then i've yet to meet him / her. I do know that there are some out there though by law of averages but whether there are any in Torbay council and involved in the decision making process regarding the covenant then i'd doubt it.

That's why we shouldn't trust the council to make a decision based on what is best for the future of TUFC any more than we should trust GI.

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 07 Jan 2018, 13:15

Thing is there IS STILL TIME!! Everybody is going on about Owers and Kuhl but CO appointed them. In the position the club were in at that time when Nico was sacked and the squad he'd left the club with then it needed common sense to prevail from CO. Get in an experienced league manager and back him with funds. That was the best and most likely option that would see the club climb the league and be safe.

Like Torquay did with Hargreaves they've done it again and got in somebody inexperienced at the level the club want to be at and without many contacts it seems. Like Chesterfield have done with Jack Lester. Cult hero but no managerial experience and the club haven't a pot to p*ss in so they aren't able to bring in players of any great calibre. Forest Green sign the likes of Reuben Reid, a striker who is prolific at this level and defenders Farrend Rawson who i saw a bit of at Derby and also Gavin Gunning who is experienced at league 2 level.

Chesterfield bring in Zavon Hines, a winger/striker who has done nothing but score 17 goals in 10 years. Mostly at NL or below. They also bring in young, inexperienced players from Barnsley and Millwall and a keeper who made his league debut yesterday at Accrington and was culpable for a few of the goals in a drubbing.

Fair enough, FGR have the funds and Chesterfield don't but when you are putting an inexperienced manager under those pressures and circumstances then you have to accept that relegation is a certainty. I know Alan Knill assembled a squad of cack during his time at Torquay but he was experienced and came into the club and brought in experienced blokes who did the business for Torquay like Joss Labadie.

You cannot appoint a bloke from Bath City and give him the squad left by Nico and on top of that trust him to be able to identify and bring in the kind of calibre of player required on peanuts to achieve survival in this league. It was suicide from CO. He claims he isn't a footballing man and this could explain the bizarre nature of the appointments. He may not be a footballing man but he's not stupid.

In the next few weeks CO has to sack O&K and get in someone experienced and give him some money to get in extra players. If not he is resigned to the drop already which is not really the attitude you would expect of a successful businessman.

Osborne has bought a struggling non league football club and his approach to dealing with fans is to ignore them which only serves to push them further away from the club. So his actions on and off the field are progressively reducing the number of paying fans that come through the turnstiles etc meaning the deficit has to be met by him. I am trying to fathom this all out and make sense of it all as to why a businessman would buy a football club with no hope of making any money and furthermore purposefully alienate fans from attending meaning it costs him even more money?

My view is that the club eventually will find it's way down to the bottom of the Conference South and with a few hundred fans coming through and as a consequence CO doesn't have to pay as much in wages as there will only be kids playing for about 50 quid a week. Less fans means less stewards and associated running costs and overall i just think this is a plan to gradually wind the club down without it looking like this is the case.

Then with virtually every fan having given up when relegation from Conf South takes place it's a piece of piss for CO to convince the council that football in Torquay is dead and having a football ground benefits nobody.

It's a plan that only needs a few years of executing for it to become reality.

Seriously, if you are a businessman with no interest in football but own a Conference South club then that is odd in itself but i would expect any businessman to look at the overall picture and put the club up for sale now and cut their losses. CO isn't going to get back the money he's shelled out as it stands so if it's just a case of buying into a football club and realizing he's made a genuine error of judgement then fine, you'd sell now and cut your losses. This is the only course of action that would convince me that there isn't something going on.

Doesn't really matter in the end anyway what i or anyone thinks as there is nowt we can do. FC Torquay United sounds good though as an alternative and let CO and the council get on with it so it can't affect anyone anymore.

Dockers Pal · Post by **Dockers Pal** » 07 Jan 2018, 13:25

Does TUFC still have a 'Director of Recruitment'?

goody2449 · Post by **goody2449** » 07 Jan 2018, 13:30

merse btpir wrote: ↑07 Jan 2018, 10:43 anbout YOU coming out and saying who you are?[/b]

Here we go again, someone disagreeing with the all-encompassing "Merse" and his first 'go to' is to suggest they are not an innocent fan but to try and suggest part of the GI regime. YOU are pathetic Merse and quite frankly a fool. Perhaps instead of sitting behind your computer copy and pasting various football club, council websites you might actually try and do something about the troubles we find ourselves in, you've clearly got plenty of time.

For the record, I am not anything to do with GI, CO or anything else TUFC other than my sons part of the development squad and I'm a season ticket holder along with my dad and 7-year-old son. I've been to pretty much all home games this season and only missed a few due to being deployed overseas for a few weeks, due to being a Sgt Maj in the Royal Engineers, British Army. I've also been to away games at Aldershot and Eastleigh this season along with other members of my close family.

So do I pass the Merse personnel questionnaire?

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 07 Jan 2018, 13:51

Insult and insinuate all you wish but you continue to hide behind your posting name. Carry on buying the shit you choose to be fed and you'll be watching Western League football before you know it.

goody2449 · Post by **goody2449** » 07 Jan 2018, 14:01

I've never hidden in my life Merse, 6 tours of Afghanistan and a mention in despatches proves that. Perhaps I just don't feel that revealing my true identity to you, and the wider internet is the correct thing to do considering my job. Perhaps you should look past your nose when trying to understand other peoples personal situations.

merse btpir · Post by **merse btpir** » 07 Jan 2018, 14:15

Oh I'll salute you then and genuinely hope you finish with all your limbs when you've had enough if it ~ and don't read anything sinister into that but it does somewhat underline why you accept the situation as being 'only on the pitch' and not in the continued mis-direction of a professional football club for a period of over five years now.

Take care wherever you might find yourself and always remain aware that wherever that is the locals quite often don't like imperial powers getting involved in their affairs whatever our Government/Monarchy or whoever tells you.

Shangull · Post by **Shangull** » 07 Jan 2018, 14:26

merse btpir wrote: ↑07 Jan 2018, 14:15 Oh I'll salute you then and genuinely hope you finish with all your limbs when you've had enough if it ~ and don't read anything sinister into that but it does somewhat underline why you accept the situation as being 'only on the pitch' and not in the continued mis-direction of a professional football club for a period of over five years now.

Take care wherever you might find yourself and always remain aware that wherever that is the locals quite often don't like imperial powers getting involved in their affairs whatever our Government/Monarchy or whoever tells you.

Wow. You really are a low life. I don't know who you are or what you're about but you are a nobody

goody2449 · Post by **goody2449** » 07 Jan 2018, 15:12

Just shown his true colours

torq2u · Post by **torq2u** » 07 Jan 2018, 15:27

merse btpir wrote: ↑07 Jan 2018, 14:15 Oh I'll salute you then and genuinely hope you finish with all your limbs when you've had enough if it ~ and don't read anything sinister into that but it does somewhat underline why you accept the situation as being 'only on the pitch' and not in the continued mis-direction of a professional football club for a period of over five years now.

Take care wherever you might find yourself and always remain aware that wherever that is the locals quite often don't like imperial powers getting involved in their affairs whatever our Government/Monarchy or whoever tells you.

Oh dear. I hope you did not intend that to sound as patronising as it read, Merse.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 07 Jan 2018, 15:40

notnow wrote: ↑07 Jan 2018, 10:05 If the land was owned by the owner of the club and the land had a covenant then the following should provide security to the fans of our club.
A covenant is a type of contract in which the covenantor makes a promise to a covenantee to do (affirmative covenant) or not do some action (negative covenant). In real property law, the term real covenants is used for conditions tied to the use of land.

In other words the land has restricted use and therefore the value of such is limited to one thing, success on the pitch!

I apologise if I am incorrect.

I strongly resent Merse's aggressive style of posting - it is totally unnecesary. He obviously thinks he is being very clever by calling other Forum members idiots, cretins, morons, baboons etc. His latest post in reply to Goody is a disgrace in my view.

On the issue of covenants, I believe the covenant on Plainmoor is that it is to be used for recreational use. At present, the pupils of the Spire School (formerly Westlands) have to traipse up to the Quinta playing fields for their sports. How much better if they could have the use of Plainmoor, and thus the terms of the covenant would be preserved. In a quid-per-quo, Gaming International could be granted planning permission to build on the Quinta land which is a more 'upmarket' area than Plainmoor - i.e. higher property prices. To my knowledge, this has never been suggested in the media but it would be a fairly obvious course of action.

I think YorkieAndy takes a rather jaundiced view of counclllors. Yes - there are a few I wouldn't trust, but call me naive if you like, I think most generally try to do their best for the community. Some of the councillors are United supporters. Adrian Sanders, for example, is a decent guy and is well aware of the perils of Plainmoor falling into the ownership of GI.

Going back to another posting, I was also gobsmacked to hear Owers state he was going for 'damage limitation' when losing 3 - 0 at half time. With such a negative attitude, we've got absolutely no hope of staying up. Hasn't he ever heard that 'attack is the best form of defence''?

A few weeks ago, there were some on here who scoffed at Swanny's points statistics. I could fully understand what Swanny was saying. Now, to reach 50 points (and I don't think 50 points will be enough for safety this season), we need 30 points from 18 games. We can now see that Swanny's prophecies of doom are coming to pass.

Post by **westbaygull** » 07 Jan 2018, 15:47

What seems slightly ironic to me in the lets-find-out-who-you-are nonsense is that when Mr Sturrock took the trouble to post, certain members (yes, I could have used the term posters) didn't believe it was him. Sigh...
Debbie Harry, West Bay o:)

Yorkieandy · Post by **Yorkieandy** » 07 Jan 2018, 15:48

I tend to agree with you tomo that my views on councillors is perhaps somewhat skewed and inaccurate but that doesn't stop me from distrusting pretty much anyone with any power in authority. It goes back years with me and it's part of a personality disorder which i don''t mind admitting. I have no evidence to prove my opinions but just my own personal anecdotal experiences and what i perceive are failures from many at the top of large organizations in which others suffer but those who failed are rewarded or the very least unpunished and held to account for these failures.

I am being harsh and i am being unreasonable. I know this deep down but i just don't trust anyone to do the right thing when money and status are involved that's all.

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