The Trust

Discuss everything TUFC with fans across the globe.
User avatar
Admiral
Hat Trick Hero
Hat Trick Hero
Posts: 885
Joined: 06 Jan 2015, 17:31
Favourite player: Kevin Hill
Location: The Bay

Post by Admiral »

http://deva-chat.com/thread/973/torquay ... boycotting

Chester seeked advice from FCUM and their first game as Chester FC was a friendly in front of a full house against FC United. Maybe we should take a leaf out of their book.
hector
Plays for Country
Plays for Country
Posts: 2442
Joined: 30 May 2011, 08:24
Favourite player: jim mcnichol

Post by hector »

Supporters denigrating the Trust piss me off. The Trust tried bloody hard to get things going and it wasn't because of the Trust that we are in this position. It was because of the sodding apathy of supporters, swallowing the David Thomas spun line that the Trust was nothing more than a glorified Supporters Club and constantly belittling the efforts it made. The Trust boat has sailed and the reasons for that lie solely with the passive fan base, too busy tugging their fore locks, to notice the club being screwed over by Phillips and GI. This mess is not of the Trusts making. They at least tried and got nothing but criticisms in return. Supporters have nobody but themselves to blame for the Trust being too hamstrung to counter the checkmate we now find ourselves in and as such they have the club they damn well deserve.
Yorkieandy
Top Scorer
Top Scorer
Posts: 1554
Joined: 07 Apr 2015, 00:05
Favourite player: Kev Nic

Post by Yorkieandy »

hector wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 19:46 Supporters denigrating the Trust piss me off. The Trust tried bloody hard to get things going and it wasn't because of the Trust that we are in this position. It was because of the sodding apathy of supporters, swallowing the David Thomas spun line that the Trust was nothing more than a glorified Supporters Club and constantly belittling the efforts it made. The Trust boat has sailed and the reasons for that lie solely with the passive fan base, too busy tugging their fore locks, to notice the club being screwed over by Phillips and GI. This mess is not of the Trusts making. They at least tried and got nothing but criticisms in return. Supporters have nobody but themselves to blame for the Trust being too hamstrung to counter the checkmate we now find ourselves in and as such they have the club they damn well deserve.
Excellent post hector and in the absence of anything from the trust to explain things as honestly as you have then i am happy to accept your point of view and i agree with it. However that doesn't excuse the lack of activity from the trust, especially if they are still taking money each month. If they have had enough or don't have the numbers to make it viable long term then admit this and everyone can see the predicament they are in and the mountain they are up against.

I have nothing but admiration for people who get off their arses to try and accomplish something, especially if it's on behalf of others so don't get me wrong. I wanted to ask the questions and some of you have given me answers that i can think about in order for me to help balance my previous thinking that the trust aren't really fit for purpose anymore, whether that be because of them and also because of lack of fans interested in joining. Or possibly both.
Plymouth Gull

Post by Plymouth Gull »

hector wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 19:46 Supporters denigrating the Trust piss me off. The Trust tried bloody hard to get things going and it wasn't because of the Trust that we are in this position. It was because of the sodding apathy of supporters, swallowing the David Thomas spun line that the Trust was nothing more than a glorified Supporters Club and constantly belittling the efforts it made. The Trust boat has sailed and the reasons for that lie solely with the passive fan base, too busy tugging their fore locks, to notice the club being screwed over by Phillips and GI. This mess is not of the Trusts making. They at least tried and got nothing but criticisms in return. Supporters have nobody but themselves to blame for the Trust being too hamstrung to counter the checkmate we now find ourselves in and as such they have the club they damn well deserve.
Agreed. The trust were shafted by Phillips and co and they effectively killed the trust off as a future potential ownership option.

Extremely frustrating but the fact that membership only ever seemed to peak at around 400 shows how split the fan base was. I'm sure when the trust came about in the Roberts era it was close to 1000 members.
Matt Gorman
Reserve Player
Reserve Player
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 Sep 2017, 17:10
Favourite player: Alex Russell

Post by Matt Gorman »

Good Evening All

Although I have posted on this forum before under a different user name in the past, I wanted to “take the bait” so to speak from YorkieAndy and provide a response to the comments Andy has made regarding TUST. For those that don’t know me, I am Treasurer of TUST and have been doing the role for the last couple of years. My comments below represent my own views and not that of TUST as an organisation (for the sake of clarity!), but I wanted to disclose my position anyway.

It is not my intention to start any form of heightened debate and conflict with other posters, but nevertheless I felt it was prudent to respond to the perceptions that Andy has (or did have at the beginning of this thread) about TUST. First and foremost, TUST is a small set-up which is only in existence to a large extent as a result of the tireless work of Michael Goulbourne. There are a few of us who also make up the “TUST board” for want of a phrase (I prefer team!), but it is fair to say Michael has shouldered most of the work over the years despite various health issues. Thankfully, we have had a few others join us now who are willing to devote their time and effort, but we are all volunteers and most of us (including me) work long hours and have families like everyone else. Therefore, there is only so much time and focus that can be given to TUST. That said, we are united by the fact we only want the best for our club and TUST exists for this sole purpose. Trying to get people to commit to working alongside us difficult. Many people want to help, but when it comes to it they can’t commit for one reason or another and I totally respect that. However, in an ideal world we would certainly wish to do more than we do now. But that’s life!

Whilst Merse, Plainmoor 78 and Hector have responded to outline some of the things we have done and try to do as a trust, it is fair to say that a lot of what we do goes on behind the scenes. Maybe there should be more song and dance made about this – who knows? But the point is that the long term survival of TUFC is the sole reason for being and that’s all that matters. The current position the club is in is far from ideal and nobody would disagree with that. However, we have tried various approaches in the past and are very mindful of trying to maintain a working relationship with the club owners. We have been accused of being too confrontational previously, "left wing militants", "troublemakers" and various other labels when engaging in the past, so trying to find the correct approach is challenging.

TUST will communicate with its members as it always has when it has something specific to say or raise awareness to. But, just because there is little in the way of written communication currently it does not mean that nothing is being done. Indeed, there is much happening at present in pursuit of our objectives and this will continue.

I think it is worthy of highlighting some of the activities TUST are engaged in and/or have been recently:

• Without wishing to go over old ground, we spent a huge amount of time and effort over the 2nd half of 2016 trying to put the subject of community ownership onto the agenda with the board at the time including a full due diligence exercise into the running of the club which provided a valuable insight for community ownership. This never got off the ground as you know despite hours and hours of time put in by a few of us to prepare and the subsequent Pre-Share Issue was merely about setting in place a structure through which we could look to move Community Ownership forward if it was needed. At the time we had no clear understanding as to what was going to happen in terms of club ownership and GI taking over and therefore it was about having plans in place to implement if necessary rather than actively marketing the Pre-Share issue. At least we know how to do this now if this was ever needed again!

• Since that point, TUST has had extensive dialogue with the council, councillors, our MP and election candidates over the past 3-6 months in particular regarding the protection of Plainmoor. In addition, we have taken advice and support from a number of professional organisations so as to be prepared including the use of a QC. We feel positive so far with regard to the current position of the ground, but will continue to monitor the position carefully.

• More recently, The TUST board are in the process of developing and structuring a form of regular dialogue between the club owners/board and supporters together with TUFC so supporters can be heard. This process is ongoing.

• We have recently sent a representative to the two day National Supporters' Summit at the FA St George's Training Centre held by the Football Supporters Federation (FSF) and Supporters Direct (SD) jointly and have developed contacts with around twenty other clubs who have been through changes of ownership or have had financial problems / concerns, as well as other organisations. We have attended seminars on 'clubs in crisis', 'structuring supporter/club dialogue' and attended as members of both the FSF and SD AGMs.

The balances held in the TUST accounts continue to grow and I have tried to do all I can as Treasurer to keep expenditure to a minimum. I can certainly assure you that every penny of money held is there for the benefit of securing the long term future of the club in whatever guise it is.

To conclude, we, the fans and TUST, are obviously currently in a 'wait and watch' scenario and can only react when there is a clear future long term plan in place and in the shorter term a new team manager has been appointed. As a supporter of TUFC for 38 years (my dad took me to my first game when I was 6!) I am hugely concerned for the club I love and can assure you that my sentiments are felt by all the other members of our “team of officials”.

I would certainly not agree that TUST is a “waste of space”. Reading through further responses to your original posting I appreciate you were probably letting off “hot air” which I can understand and may have changed your view somewhat with the benefit of other’s opinions, but I would suggest at this point in time that it would be really helpful and valuable to encourage others to think more positively about TUST as oppose to moving people against the set-up. There is always more that should be done or could be done so I accept your views and criticism but would just disagree with the sentiments at the moment.

I hope that provides some context for you.

Best Wishes

Matt
Soupdragon
On the Bench
On the Bench
Posts: 123
Joined: 06 Nov 2016, 18:05
Favourite player: Steve Woods

Post by Soupdragon »

hector wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 19:46 Supporters denigrating the Trust piss me off. The Trust tried bloody hard to get things going and it wasn't because of the Trust that we are in this position. It was because of the sodding apathy of supporters, swallowing the David Thomas spun line that the Trust was nothing more than a glorified Supporters Club and constantly belittling the efforts it made. The Trust boat has sailed and the reasons for that lie solely with the passive fan base, too busy tugging their fore locks, to notice the club being screwed over by Phillips and GI. This mess is not of the Trusts making. They at least tried and got nothing but criticisms in return. Supporters have nobody but themselves to blame for the Trust being too hamstrung to counter the checkmate we now find ourselves in and as such they have the club they damn well deserve.
This.
Yorkieandy
Top Scorer
Top Scorer
Posts: 1554
Joined: 07 Apr 2015, 00:05
Favourite player: Kev Nic

Post by Yorkieandy »

Matt Gorman wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 20:21 Good Evening All

Although I have posted on this forum before under a different user name in the past, I wanted to “take the bait” so to speak from YorkieAndy and provide a response to the comments Andy has made regarding TUST. For those that don’t know me, I am Treasurer of TUST and have been doing the role for the last couple of years. My comments below represent my own views and not that of TUST as an organisation (for the sake of clarity!), but I wanted to disclose my position anyway.

It is not my intention to start any form of heightened debate and conflict with other posters, but nevertheless I felt it was prudent to respond to the perceptions that Andy has (or did have at the beginning of this thread) about TUST. First and foremost, TUST is a small set-up which is only in existence to a large extent as a result of the tireless work of Michael Goulbourne. There are a few of us who also make up the “TUST board” for want of a phrase (I prefer team!), but it is fair to say Michael has shouldered most of the work over the years despite various health issues. Thankfully, we have had a few others join us now who are willing to devote their time and effort, but we are all volunteers and most of us (including me) work long hours and have families like everyone else. Therefore, there is only so much time and focus that can be given to TUST. That said, we are united by the fact we only want the best for our club and TUST exists for this sole purpose. Trying to get people to commit to working alongside us difficult. Many people want to help, but when it comes to it they can’t commit for one reason or another and I totally respect that. However, in an ideal world we would certainly wish to do more than we do now. But that’s life!

Whilst Merse, Plainmoor 78 and Hector have responded to outline some of the things we have done and try to do as a trust, it is fair to say that a lot of what we do goes on behind the scenes. Maybe there should be more song and dance made about this – who knows? But the point is that the long term survival of TUFC is the sole reason for being and that’s all that matters. The current position the club is in is far from ideal and nobody would disagree with that. However, we have tried various approaches in the past and are very mindful of trying to maintain a working relationship with the club owners. We have been accused of being too confrontational previously, "left wing militants", "troublemakers" and various other labels when engaging in the past, so trying to find the correct approach is challenging.

TUST will communicate with its members as it always has when it has something specific to say or raise awareness to. But, just because there is little in the way of written communication currently it does not mean that nothing is being done. Indeed, there is much happening at present in pursuit of our objectives and this will continue.

I think it is worthy of highlighting some of the activities TUST are engaged in and/or have been recently:

• Without wishing to go over old ground, we spent a huge amount of time and effort over the 2nd half of 2016 trying to put the subject of community ownership onto the agenda with the board at the time including a full due diligence exercise into the running of the club which provided a valuable insight for community ownership. This never got off the ground as you know despite hours and hours of time put in by a few of us to prepare and the subsequent Pre-Share Issue was merely about setting in place a structure through which we could look to move Community Ownership forward if it was needed. At the time we had no clear understanding as to what was going to happen in terms of club ownership and GI taking over and therefore it was about having plans in place to implement if necessary rather than actively marketing the Pre-Share issue. At least we know how to do this now if this was ever needed again!

• Since that point, TUST has had extensive dialogue with the council, councillors, our MP and election candidates over the past 3-6 months in particular regarding the protection of Plainmoor. In addition, we have taken advice and support from a number of professional organisations so as to be prepared including the use of a QC. We feel positive so far with regard to the current position of the ground, but will continue to monitor the position carefully.

• More recently, The TUST board are in the process of developing and structuring a form of regular dialogue between the club owners/board and supporters together with TUFC so supporters can be heard. This process is ongoing.

• We have recently sent a representative to the two day National Supporters' Summit at the FA St George's Training Centre held by the Football Supporters Federation (FSF) and Supporters Direct (SD) jointly and have developed contacts with around twenty other clubs who have been through changes of ownership or have had financial problems / concerns, as well as other organisations. We have attended seminars on 'clubs in crisis', 'structuring supporter/club dialogue' and attended as members of both the FSF and SD AGMs.

The balances held in the TUST accounts continue to grow and I have tried to do all I can as Treasurer to keep expenditure to a minimum. I can certainly assure you that every penny of money held is there for the benefit of securing the long term future of the club in whatever guise it is.

To conclude, we, the fans and TUST, are obviously currently in a 'wait and watch' scenario and can only react when there is a clear future long term plan in place and in the shorter term a new team manager has been appointed. As a supporter of TUFC for 38 years (my dad took me to my first game when I was 6!) I am hugely concerned for the club I love and can assure you that my sentiments are felt by all the other members of our “team of officials”.

I would certainly not agree that TUST is a “waste of space”. Reading through further responses to your original posting I appreciate you were probably letting off “hot air” which I can understand and may have changed your view somewhat with the benefit of other’s opinions, but I would suggest at this point in time that it would be really helpful and valuable to encourage others to think more positively about TUST as oppose to moving people against the set-up. There is always more that should be done or could be done so I accept your views and criticism but would just disagree with the sentiments at the moment.

I hope that provides some context for you.

Best Wishes

Matt
This post explains much of what I wanted to know Matt and thankyou for taking the time and effort to clarify the position. My terse opening post was unnecessary and could have been worded more appropriately. I certainly did not wish to judge anybody associated with TUST although I do accept that I am quite a dismissive character by nature when not always the situation / people warrant it.

There have been a few posters questioning the trust and its role of late albeit in a more civil manner than I however again, your willingness to come on and communicate I'm sure may have alleviated their concerns somewhat.

Personally I would prefer a return to a more 'militant' approach as I simply do not believe that talking really gets you anywhere in the long run. Certainly in relationships with people close to you then obviously talking through issues is the more mature and fruitful way to address things. I just think that when dealing with business people they have no sense of fairness or morals. Talking is pointless. Action is more suited in my opinion.

Anyway, I just wanted to respond to your post and clear the air. Ultimately my opinion means nothing and won't affect the great work you all obviously do but I'm sure it would be a whole lot easier for you guys if ill informed people like myself didn't keep criticising.

We all want the best for TUFC and I'm sad to say that with or without a trust it probably doesn't matter either way. At least you are being pro active and trying to get things done for little or no reward whereas I am doing nothing but spouting off on forums.

Sadly that's all I feel capable of doing and even sadder is I feel that's all anyone is capable of doing with a view to making GI stop and listen.

So apologies Matt if I have offended anyone who works so diligently for the trust in their own time. I am an ignorant person often but I'm prepared to acknowledge when I'm out of order and got things wrong.

This being a case in point. Apologies again.
merse btpir
Top Scorer
Top Scorer
Posts: 1860
Joined: 02 Jan 2017, 10:58
Favourite player: robin stubbs

Post by merse btpir »

Matt Gorman wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 20:21
•Without wishing to go over old ground, we spent a huge amount of time and effort over the 2nd half of 2016 trying to put the subject of community ownership onto the agenda with the board at the time including a full due diligence exercise into the running of the club which provided a valuable insight for community ownership. This never got off the ground as you know despite hours and hours of time put in by a few of us to prepare and the subsequent Pre-Share Issue was merely about setting in place a structure through which we could look to move Community Ownership forward if it was needed. At the time we had no clear understanding as to what was going to happen in terms of club ownership and GI taking over and therefore it was about having plans in place to implement if necessary rather than actively marketing the Pre-Share issue. At least we know how to do this now if this was ever needed again!

•Since that point, TUST has had extensive dialogue with the council, councillors, our MP and election candidates over the past 3-6 months in particular regarding the protection of Plainmoor. In addition, we have taken advice and support from a number of professional organisations so as to be prepared including the use of a QC. We feel positive so far with regard to the current position of the ground, but will continue to monitor the position carefully.

•More recently, The TUST board are in the process of developing and structuring a form of regular dialogue between the club owners/board and supporters together with TUFC so supporters can be heard. This process is ongoing.

•We have recently sent a representative to the two day National Supporters' Summit at the FA St George's Training Centre held by the Football Supporters Federation (FSF) and Supporters Direct (SD) jointly and have developed contacts with around twenty other clubs who have been through changes of ownership or have had financial problems / concerns, as well as other organisations. We have attended seminars on 'clubs in crisis', 'structuring supporter/club dialogue' and attended as members of both the FSF and SD AGMs.
Take that on board and digest every word of it as opposed to the joke postings of Alpine Joe on various forums who holds any view different to his Genghis Khan like adherence to right wing/marketforce/Thacherite/Daily Mail politics as akin to Russian Revolutionary propaganda. As opposed to the wilful disdain and ignorance of the reason d'etre for a trust at all of Dave Thomas with his insulting references to 'lawnmower provision for the club'.........and to the blundering failure to grasp the greater picture by such Luddites as messrs Phillips, Balson and Kerswell so easily manipulated by Pete Masters as to only see the concept of community ownership as a means to pay the next monthly wage bill rather hand the greater picture of their handing over to a sustainable future for the club when their own module was through necessity one of fire fighting and of an extremely limited life prospect...in other words; "if you can't pay next month's wages for us then go away and shut up!"

As much as their own willingness and foolhardiness in picking up the table for Thea Bristow's liabilities so jokingly referred to as 'debt free' is appreciated; sustainable it clearly was not and let's not beat about the bush ~ they neither sold nor gave their controlling share in the club to Clarke Osborne but had them taken from them in lieu of the security/colateral they had put them up as in exchange for capital injections way in excess of £100,000. Dave Phillips regularly pleads through intermediaries for me to shut up and take the pressure off him......I will not!

That is how Clarke Osborne comes to be in possession of Torquay United; that and in no other way!
westyorkshiregull
Top Scorer
Top Scorer
Posts: 1435
Joined: 01 Feb 2012, 09:20
Favourite player: mark loram

Post by westyorkshiregull »

So merse they basicly gambled 100000 grand odd with the hope to repay it with i assume interest against writing off the debts from thea ect....
knightmaregull
Out on Loan
Out on Loan
Posts: 218
Joined: 28 Sep 2013, 17:56

Post by knightmaregull »

Merge, please do not shut up or take the pressure off . Whether posters here like or loath you, you speak with the kind of passion, belief and seeming knowledge that we are going to need in abudenance over the coming months / years. Those who have acted dishonourably over the years need to be held to account and hopefully the rose tinters and blue sky thinkers as regards to the current and previous owners will more and more come to realise the truth as GI's money driven plan further unfolds.
merse btpir
Top Scorer
Top Scorer
Posts: 1860
Joined: 02 Jan 2017, 10:58
Favourite player: robin stubbs

Post by merse btpir »

westyorkshiregull wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 21:48 So merse they basicly gambled 100000 grand odd with the hope to repay it with i assume interest against writing off the debts from thea ect....
They hoped to sell the club and use that collateral to repay Clarke Osborne...... liabilities not necessarily debts; they are commitments to spending and overheads that are inherited. Either not identified during due diligence or simply ignored after due diligence has identified them in order to pursue the original intent come what may. This what lead to a certain (let's call it) 'decimation' of the original strength of the Phillips board..........I heard Clarke Osborne describe then as 'skeletons in the cupboard'
lucy6lucy
Plays for Country
Plays for Country
Posts: 2321
Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 21:13
Favourite player: Chris Myers
Location: Wigan

Post by lucy6lucy »

merse btpir wrote: 06 Sep 2017, 22:34 They hoped to sell the club and use that collateral to repay Clarke Osborne...... liabilities not necessarily debts; they are commitments to spending and overheads that are inherited. Either not identified during due diligence or simply ignored after due diligence has identified them in order to pursue the original intent come what may. This what lead to a certain (let's call it) 'decimation' of the original strength of the Phillips board..........I heard Clarke Osborne describe then as 'skeletons in the cupboard'
In simple terminology we're ****
Lucy
merse btpir
Top Scorer
Top Scorer
Posts: 1860
Joined: 02 Jan 2017, 10:58
Favourite player: robin stubbs

Post by merse btpir »

Unless Osborne moves 'his project' on to another investor who might be more football orientated; quite possibly
gullpower
First Regular
First Regular
Posts: 327
Joined: 06 Oct 2015, 13:52
Location: Narnia

Post by gullpower »

Having met the TUST board/team and received emails from Michael Goulbourne during the campaign to prevent GI buying the freehold of Plainmoor, I know them to be a dedicated and hardworking bunch of fans whose work behind the scenes usually goes unacknowledged, unrewarded and unappreciated.

TUST exists to (hopefully) one day secure community ownership of Torquay United by the fans. That’s us! Why wouldn’t you as a fan want to have a say in how your club is run? There are plenty of examples of clubs where this model of ownership works at this level of football and above, including (unfortunately) the one up the road.

I would encourage all fans to:
• Read ‘Punk Football – The Rise of Fan Ownership in English Football’ by Jim Keoghan. The history of the game makes it worth the read alone even if you are not interested in fan ownership and still not by the last page.
• Become a TUST member – it costs 50p a week.
gullpower
First Regular
First Regular
Posts: 327
Joined: 06 Oct 2015, 13:52
Location: Narnia

Post by gullpower »

PS If the fans were running the club would it have taken 3 weeks to appoint a new manager!?
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Southampton Gull and 283 guests