Phoenix club, start planning now

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WestLondonYellow
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

Jeff wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:15 What utter flannel. "If you don't like my no-substance idea, post somewhere else".

If you would actually be bothered, you'll find a post by myself from back in maybe Jan/Feb of this year on this very topic. Not rubbishing it at all, just pointing out some of the many pitfalls that would have to be overcome. And nobody was able to come up with any comments that would resolve those pitfalls. So for me, nothing has changed.

To reiterate - there are NO ground suitable of hosting any level of senior football in the bay. So "AFC Torquay" would have to play miles away. Buckland or Coach Road. Not ideal. And for how long? How long will it take for a fan-owned club to raise the sort of capital to build a new ground within Torbay? Millions of years no doubt, seeing as we can't get behind the existing club enough to fund a decent NL team. Any new club would need to have a route-map back to playing in Torquay before a lot of fans would buy in.

What league would this new team pitch for? Absolute best hope would be the Western League Div 1 as it's a new club rather than a resurrection. More likely is the Peninsula League - 5 promotions away from where we are now. Would the "hardcore" 1500 fans stick by the club there? Not likely I'd say. Be lucky to get 10% of that.

How would the club generate income? Because with no ground and no other assets, it would just be gate receipts. So would the new club rely on a membership scheme then? What would that look like? One member = one vote? How much would the stake be? I guess someone would need to know how much the whole venture would cost to make that sort of statement. Saying "I'd put in £500" is largely irrelevant, as you have no idea how much of a percentage of that puts in. And is that a one-off payment or a yearly thing? As this is for the long term, right?

Where would the players come from? Remember, TUFC is largely ridiculed in local football circles and there is no comparably levelled club this side of Tiverton. We'd have to hope the cream of the Stoke Gabriel and Bovey Tracey sides would sign up.

That's just off the top off my head. I'm not poo-pooing the idea of a Phoenix club totally, but we - as a fan base - are so SO far away from being able to organise one. If someone thinks it's viable, wants to grab the idea by the balls, come up with detailed resolutions to the issues above (and more) and get some momentum going then fair play to them - I'll be interested and happy to get behind it if it's realistic.

But until then, it's just an ill-thought whim in someone's head
Lol, "not poo pooing the idea totally"

Nope, just 99.99999 %

Yes I would put 500 in annually. As for all your other questions, this is why it is better to find out who is actually prepared to do something before discussing how to resolve all those issues.
WestLondonYellow
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:23 Lol, "not poo pooing the idea totally"

Nope, just 99.99999 %

Yes I would put 500 in annually. As for all your other questions, this is why it is better to find out who is actually prepared to do something before discussing how to resolve all those issues.

My apologies for not referring to the database in my head if all your previous posts and being aware of your stance on this already, although from here, your stance seems extremely negative.

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Post by Dave »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:17 You may know more than me regarding current landscape on grounds, but interested to know, why couldn't we share coach road or buckland, or what about teignmouth's ground, or Torquay rugby club, pitch might be an issue there I guess.

If it started now, and gained some momentum, would this. It be cause to lobby the council not to sell to GI as there is a club on the rise ready to move in?
Buckland spent a small fortune in upgrading their pitch to meet Southern league standards, as far as I know, may have changed now, they don't even allow their 3rd team to play at Homers Heath ( there are posters who know more about Buckland than me, who could post a view point on this )Buckland are very protective of their pitch, unlikely to allow another club to share it, regardless of extra income.

Coach Road comes under the control of Devon FA, they've said many times, that pitch is for use of local high profile games, and local cup finals only, also very unlikely to allow a club to use it, I believe but could be wrong, some have tried and failed before.

As for the other ground mentioned, I don't know, but there has to be a long term view taken on a phoenix club, it would eventually need a permanent ground, where ? I don't know that there is one with out Plainmoor.

Not adverse to idea, needs a lot of thought, as said there are more pitfalls around here than in other places.
Last edited by Dave on 28 Aug 2017, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:25
Jeff
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Post by Jeff »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:23 Lol, "not poo pooing the idea totally"

Nope, just 99.99999 %

Yes I would put 500 in annually. As for all your other questions, this is why it is better to find out who is actually prepared to do something before discussing how to resolve all those issues.
You are missing the point totally. You are making out like starting a brand new football team from nothing is a piece of p*** and can be done via an Internet forum and some internal messages. I'm trying to highlight that it's not going to be simple, and so many hurdles would need to be overcome before it even gets to the point of cock-waving that you can throw £500 a year at it.

I never said you needed a photographic memory of my posting history either. A quick forum search of "Phoenix Club" would have saved you starting up the same discussion yet again. Have a search now why don't you - if you think my views are negative, look at what people said about it 8/9months ago.

(And if it was such a good idea, do you not think that someone would have done something about this one of the other times it was raised and shot down?)
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

Jeff wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:36 You are missing the point totally. You are making out like starting a brand new football team from nothing is a piece of p*** and can be done via an Internet forum and some internal messages. I'm trying to highlight that it's not going to be simple, and so many hurdles would need to be overcome before it even gets to the point of cock-waving that you can throw £500 a year at it.

I never said you needed a photographic memory of my posting history either. A quick forum search of "Phoenix Club" would have saved you starting up the same discussion yet again. Have a search now why don't you - if you think my views are negative, look at what people said about it 8/9months ago.

(And if it was such a good idea, do you not think that someone would have done something about this one of the other times it was raised and shot down?)
If saying that it would be a hard road with a lot of problems to solve is making out it's a peice of piss then yeah I'm guilty.
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:40 If saying that it would be a hard road with a lot of problems to solve is making out it's a peice of piss then yeah I'm guilty.

Also, if trying to get people to stick there hand up and declare interest in taking this offline is attempting to create a new club on an Internet forum, again, guilty. All I'm doing is using the most useful medium to try and bring the right people together, to then talk in person, offline.

I'm not cock waving about £500 for Christ sake, it's hardly an amount to imply I'm loaded. And when you put it up against the money currently spent on season ticket or match tickets etc, it's offset anyway by not attending Plainmoor. Added to that, it's a commitment I'd be will from make.
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:45
Last edited by WestLondonYellow on 28 Aug 2017, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Yorkieandy »

Jeff wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:22 Difference with Scarborough Andy is the original club had gone out of business. This proposal is more of a "splinter group" to stick one to GI.

More like FC United, Enfield Town and AFC Liverpool (who? Exactly - that's a good example of how these ideas can fail) rather than Halifax, Chester and AFC Telford
This is a valid point Jeff and i know you've posted your thoughts in the past along with forever Dave that a phoenix club probably couldn't work in terms of co existing with the original TUFC whilst ever that entity is still up and running.

I wouldn't say it couldn't work but it would say it would make things nigh on impossible.

My rationale behind wanting to start a new club isn't solely to stick two fingers up at GI. We forget that before they arrived the club was run just as shoddily if not quite a bit worse.

I happen to genuinely believe that there will not be a TUFC in the coming years as I think it will be forced out of business and so I'm just trying to get a step ahead of the game rather than waiting for that moment if that makes sense.

Then when TUFC goes tits up there will already be a thriving non league phoenix club for those fans left behind by the closure to jump on board with and everyone lives happily ever after.
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Post by MellowYellow »

arcadia wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 19:28 If we are to survive you've got to stick together and support the team not turn away from them.
I am accustomed to that old school thinking and very honourable it is too. I commend you for your loyalty but there comes a time when blind loyalty becomes betrayal. The posts on this forum show the majority are contemplating a future-less future for the club and so just want to step out of it. This is no longer about a club having a lean spell, our core problems run deeper than just this team. We have a club that has been on the brink of complete financial disintegration, kept intact only by property developers who are drooling at the looming sale of our Plainmoor Ground home.

Supporters do not make the decision to turn away for the club lightly, but when the pain of continuing to support exceeds the pain of stopping, a threshold has been crossed. It is at that moment many will turn to the unknown. Yes, some supporter will remain with what they already know but many others are prepared to take the survival journey of Phoenix uncertainty. I cannot tell you which one is right, but I can tell you which one is more fun.

Of course I am not speaking for everyone else, I am withdrawing my support as a protest because this time I am going to focus on what I believe is right, regardless of what everyone else is doing or thinking.
Last edited by MellowYellow on 28 Aug 2017, 21:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Colorado Gull »

One of the biggest difficulties of an 'AFC Torquay' would be getting supporters together who could get organised and stay on the same wavelength.
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

dannyrvtufc4life wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:57 One of the biggest difficulties of an 'AFC Torquay' would be getting supporters together who could get organised and stay on the same wavelength.
Evident from the thread alone.

Although I wouldn't say it would be the biggest hurdle, biggest would be those that Jeff has mentioned, still, is it worth to try?
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Post by Jeff »

dannyrvtufc4life wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 20:57 One of the biggest difficulties of an 'AFC Torquay' would be getting supporters together who could get organised and stay on the same wavelength.
Exactly this. The fact we have a Trust that not everyone is on-board with clearly demonstrates this.

If the TUST suddenly came out and said "we've been working on a Phoenix club for the past 18 months and here are the details......." it might generate a groundswell of support. Forum chatter will not
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Post by WestLondonYellow »

Jeff wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 21:09 Exactly this. The fact we have a Trust that not everyone is on-board with clearly demonstrates this.

If the TUST suddenly came out and said "we've been working on a Phoenix club for the past 18 months and here are the details......." it might generate a groundswell of support. Forum chatter will not
So it's impossible to find a small group of supporters who can agree on the aim of a Phoenix club, maybe not agree on all the decisions but, impossible even to agree on the primary goal of a new club?

Ah well, if it's impossible I guess that's it then, might as well give up. Good job the wright brothers didn't give up on the invention of flight when many others told them it wasn't possible.
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Post by Jeff »

WestLondonYellow wrote: 28 Aug 2017, 21:19 So it's impossible to find a small group of supporters who can agree on the aim of a Phoenix club, maybe not agree on all the decisions but, impossible even to agree on the primary goal of a new club?

Ah well, if it's impossible I guess that's it then, might as well give up. Good job the wright brothers didn't give up on the invention of flight when many others told them it wasn't possible.
Giving up implies the current club dies though? It's not dead yet, it's just on deaths door thanks to a failed Summer of recruitment by KN. Getting behind whoever the new manager is would be a better start.

If the fear is that GI will drop the club like a hot potato if they don't get their way, wouldn't efforts be better spent in ensuring there is a fan-based structure to take over running of whatever is left?
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