A Question of Contracts ......

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tomogull
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A Question of Contracts ......

Post by tomogull »

This is really a request for Merse's thoughts, although I think I know the answers which are fairly obvious. Until Merse's post last season, I hadn't realised that outside the League, most players were on one-year contracts which ran only until the end of the season - April. This is compared with league players whose contracts run until the end of July. Obviously this helps to relieve the financial pressures on clubs like ours in dire straits because they can save three months' players wages by offering one year contracts. But it means that every season we are in the National League, we are going to have at least half a team of different players as we have this season - i.e. no continuity - and we are likely to lose better players as has happened with Dan Sparkes for example.

My query is this - I have noticed that some clubs, notably Leyton Orient, have been signing players on two-year contracts. This must give them a big advantage because it stands to reason that the better players will opt for the longer term security. Merse - do you know if other favourites for the top such as Tranmere, D & R, Wrexham, Eastleigh, or any other National League club (AFC Fylde ?), offer many two-year contracts? On the other hand, one-year contracts allow clubs to get rid of players who are not performing. Shaun Harrad springs readily to mind ........ :red:
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Post by nickbrod »

For clarity what actually does a 'one year' contract,in football terms,actually mean? If National League contracts end in April most (all?) of the players signed were in June/July,so ending next April isn't one year or is it?
And for what reason do the club (& some others) not disclose the length of contract? What's to hide?
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Post by SenorDingDong »

tomogull wrote: 04 Aug 2017, 16:36 This is really a request for Merse's thoughts, although I think I know the answers which are fairly obvious. Until Merse's post last season, I hadn't realised that outside the League, most players were on one-year contracts which ran only until the end of the season - April. This is compared with league players whose contracts run until the end of July. Obviously this helps to relieve the financial pressures on clubs like ours in dire straits because they can save three months' players wages by offering one year contracts. But it means that every season we are in the National League, we are going to have at least half a team of different players as we have this season - i.e. no continuity - and we are likely to lose better players as has happened with Dan Sparkes for example.

My query is this - I have noticed that some clubs, notably Leyton Orient, have been signing players on two-year contracts. This must give them a big advantage because it stands to reason that the better players will opt for the longer term security. Merse - do you know if other favourites for the top such as Tranmere, D & R, Wrexham, Eastleigh, or any other National League club (AFC Fylde ?), offer many two-year contracts? On the other hand, one-year contracts allow clubs to get rid of players who are not performing. Shaun Harrad springs readily to mind ........ :red:
For what it's worth, during our first spell in the Conference offering players two year contracts was one of our main tactics in tempting the likes of Hargreaves, Sills, Phillips, Todd etc down here. We never paid silly wages but offering them a security of a couple years was integral in attracting them down here. We even offered pretty awful players like Michael Brough two year deals.
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Post by merse btpir »

tomogull wrote: 04 Aug 2017, 16:36 I have noticed that some clubs, notably Leyton Orient, have been signing players on two-year contracts. This must give them a big advantage because it stands to reason that the better players will opt for the longer term security. Merse - do you know if other favourites for the top such as Tranmere, D & R, Wrexham, Eastleigh, or any other National League club (AFC Fylde ?), offer many two-year contracts?
Yes they do (although not to say to every single player they have) ...all of those you mention which says all about where the real ambition to get into the EFL is, and where the clutching at straws goes on. It's noticeable that his summer there has been a degree of unwillingness to disclose such matters to the public.

'One year' contracts should more correctly be referred to as 'one season' contracts and it is noticeable that if you look at the number df close season signings across the National League on this link:
http://thelondonmafia.proboards.com/thr ... ll?page=61
It is indicative of the massive turnaround one season contracts create.
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Post by wivelgull »

The majority of Whitby Town players are on two-year contracts.
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Post by tomogull »

merse btpir wrote: 04 Aug 2017, 19:52 Yes they do (although not to say to every single player they have) ...all of those you mention which says all about where the real ambition to get into the EFL is, and where the clutching at straws goes on. It's noticeable that his summer there has been a degree of unwillingness to disclose such matters to the public.

'One year' contracts should more correctly be referred to as 'one season' contracts and it is noticeable that if you look at the number df close season signings across the National League on this link:
http://thelondonmafia.proboards.com/thr ... ll?page=61
It is indicative of the massive turnaround one season contracts create.
Thanks Merse. I was fairly sure in my own mind that I was reading the situation right. And as you and Nickbrod say - it isn't a 'one year' contract, it's a one season - 10 months - contract. However can Whitby Town manage to offer two-year contracts ?
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Post by merse btpir »

tomogull wrote: 04 Aug 2017, 23:18 However can Whitby Town manage to offer two-year contracts ?
Well look at it this way........

Unless you're willing to rebuild your squad every summer; a two year structure is a no brainer really. Never mind Whitby Tow; surely Torquay United can afford to pay their players through a close season!

They might well be now anyway as information as to the length of contracts doesn't seem to be there any more and the renowned conduit that is Dave Thomas is in a sort of Freemasons' pact with Clarke Osborne.............United must have been the only side in this league without a mention in their local paper last night on the eve of the season.

Ten month deals are penny wise, pound foolish leading to situations where your good players walk for nothing or next to nothing and you start every season bedding your squad in until late Autumn.
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Post by gullsdiv2 »

When Gowling and Pittman signed it was reported by Tyrone Thompson (their agent) that they'd both signed 2 year deals. I've also heard that Clarke signed a 2 year deal, so although the length of the contracts hasn't been mentioned by the club this summer, I wouldn't take that as meaning everyone is on a 1 season deal, I imagine it's incredibly hard to get these type of players down on such a short contract!
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Post by merse btpir »

You're absolutely right; I would imagine Gowling and Pitman have had rentals to fix up whilst Clarke more than likely commutes from Bristol
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Post by tomogull »

gullsdiv2 wrote: 05 Aug 2017, 08:32 When Gowling and Pittman signed it was reported by Tyrone Thompson (their agent) that they'd both signed 2 year deals. I've also heard that Clarke signed a 2 year deal, so although the length of the contracts hasn't been mentioned by the club this summer, I wouldn't take that as meaning everyone is on a 1 season deal, I imagine it's incredibly hard to get these type of players down on such a short contract!
That's encouraging news if correct. As Merse says, having competent players on season-long contracts is penny-pinching to the extreme.
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Post by nickbrod »

If two,maybe three, players are on 2 year contracts then perhaps some others are too. That has to be good news.
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Post by Alpine Joe »

Tomogull
That's encouraging news if correct. As Merse says, having competent players on season-long contracts is penny-pinching to the extreme.

Don't forget it works both ways. You don't have to think back very far to remember that the bunch of incompetents that Alan Knill saddled us with for 2 years, many of them on sufficiently lucrative contracts that meant that a crowbar wouldn't shift them while the big pay packets were coming in.

Those poor players, several of whom couldn't even get into the first team, sat tight on their 2 year contracts doled out by Knill. Just imagine if they'd only been one season deals and Chris Hargreaves had all their substantial wages with which to entice the players HE wanted ? Our chances of an immediate return to the Football League would have been substantially increased.

Also, it's a fact of modern football life that after a few defeats trigger happy directors and fans want to see a Manager sacked. Even Nicho, who is relatively new to management is one of the longest serving Managers in the division. If you give 2 year contracts to players, while also forever going down the path of replacing managers more frequently, then the consequence is that the new guy will be saddled with another managers players for longer.

He'll have to wait even longer before he gets the chance to bring in the players he wants. In fact he could well get sacked before he ever gets the chance, if the players enjoy substantially more job security than their Manager.
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Post by tomogull »

Alpine Joe wrote: 06 Aug 2017, 15:19 Tomogull Don't forget it works both ways. You don't have to think back very far to remember that the bunch of incompetents that Alan Knill saddled us with for 2 years, many of them on sufficiently lucrative contracts that meant that a crowbar wouldn't shift them while the big pay packets were coming in.

Those poor players, several of whom couldn't even get into the first team, sat tight on their 2 year contracts doled out by Knill. Just imagine if they'd only been one season deals and Chris Hargreaves had all their substantial wages with which to entice the players HE wanted ? Our chances of an immediate return to the Football League would have been substantially increased.

Also, it's a fact of modern football life that after a few defeats trigger happy directors and fans want to see a Manager sacked. Even Nicho, who is relatively new to management is one of the longest serving Managers in the division. If you give 2 year contracts to players, while also forever going down the path of replacing managers more frequently, then the consequence is that the new guy will be saddled with another managers players for longer.

He'll have to wait even longer before he gets the chance to bring in the players he wants. In fact he could well get sacked before he ever gets the chance, if the players enjoy substantially more job security than their Manager.
Difficult to pick any holes in that, AJ. It pains me to be reminded of players like Dale Tonge and Ben Harding (and there were others) who were on lucrative two year contracts, thanks to Alan Knill's mismanagement, who took us out of the Football League. On the other side of the coin, if Paul Buckle had not been able to sign players like Tim Sills, Wayne Carlisle or Chris Hargreaves on two year contracts (they may even have been longer, I don't know) we would probably not have got out of the Conference in the first place. The other advantage is if we find we have a player who is a 'saleable asset', far better that he is on a two-year contract than watching him walk away for nowt at the end of the season. It's a difficult balancing act for managers and 'trigger happy' directors.
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Post by SenorDingDong »

Alpine Joe wrote: 06 Aug 2017, 15:19 Tomogull Don't forget it works both ways. You don't have to think back very far to remember that the bunch of incompetents that Alan Knill saddled us with for 2 years, many of them on sufficiently lucrative contracts that meant that a crowbar wouldn't shift them while the big pay packets were coming in.

Those poor players, several of whom couldn't even get into the first team, sat tight on their 2 year contracts doled out by Knill. Just imagine if they'd only been one season deals and Chris Hargreaves had all their substantial wages with which to entice the players HE wanted ? Our chances of an immediate return to the Football League would have been substantially increased.
Increased perhaps but we were still saddled with Hargreaves, whose appointment is a whole lesson in the school of 'make sure who you employ' - not just on the playing field. He had a playing budget over twice what Cox and Nicholson have been granted - I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than the Cowleys had last season at Lincoln. He started well and then when the team hit a bump, he proved entirely incapable of motivating them/halting the slump to the point that we went into total freefall.
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Post by Alpine Joe »

I expect that by bringing Managerial ability into it, all we'll conclude is that we'd be happy for good and talented managers that we approve of to hand out 3 or 4 year contracts, whereas those we don't rate and don't like....well, given the rubbish they're likely to sign, make it 12 months at most.

The point about Hargreaves budget, was the percentage of it already allocated by the previous Manager to players signed by that previous Manager. Hargreaves in the job, but constrained by Knill's decisions determining on who, and in what amounts, it should be spent. Ding Dong might have more inside knowledge about Hargreaves motivational abilities, but it wouldn't take many months before the new players brought in by Hargreaves in the Summer got to find out that the useless Knill signings who were sat in the stands every match day,were earning substantially more than those out on the pitch slogging their guts out for the team. It just has to have a detrimental effect on motivation, and was part of a situation that Hargreaves inherited, and where the blame can't be fairly laid entirely at his door.

Farther up the leagues, a player might only be willing to join on a short contract as he will prefer to move again and collect a fresh signing on fee.
Plus the added bonus that if he's out of contract there will be no large transfer fee to pay (age dependent etc) to acquire his services and so the club signing him can afford to be more generous as regards wages.

I don't see that a black and white rule will be possible to agree on. Different solutions will fit different situations. The much discussed Nathan Blissett situation for instance. Insist he sign a 2 year contract and he wouldn't have extended at all in the Summer of 2016. With the combined talents of Kev, the General Manager, and Clarke Osborne, we surely pitch our contract offers spot on these days ;-)
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