New Stadium

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torregull
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Post by torregull »

gullpower wrote: 19 Jul 2017, 09:13 I can see how designing and building a new stadium may take 3 years but Clarke Osborne seems to have taken no account of the planning process in his timetable.

It's difficult to search back on the Herald site because of the change to Devonlive, but I’m sure that there were objections to the proposed stadium at Nightingale Park by local residents and current users. There are bound to be objections which means the planning process itself could take 3 years.

Does telling shareholders that TUFC will be in a new stadium within 3 years demonstrate Clarke Osborne’s lack of experience when it comes to building stadiums?
Go to the Torbay Community Development website http://www.torbaycdt.org.uk, click on Community Partnerships link and then scroll down to Shiphay and Willows Community Partnership,click on again and you will find the Nightingale Park Consultation Report,June 2016.
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Post by tomogull »

Don't overlook the four vital words in his statement - WE PLAN TO RE-LOCATE ...... Yes, I'm sure Gaming International bliddy well PLANNED to re-locate the Reading and Swindon tracks and PLANNED a new ground for Bristol Rovers, but what happened ? What's the saying - 'The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions' (or in Clarke Osborne's world, smokescreens).

It is soooo right that we all watch like hawks what is going on at the club and treat the postings by Alpine Joe on the TFF Forum with the contempt they deserve. You will notice that he NEVER answers the million'dollar question - why have Gaming International never built a stadium ??
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Post by gullpower »

torregull wrote: 19 Jul 2017, 15:14 Go to the Torbay Community Development website http://www.torbaycdt.org.uk, click on Community Partnerships link and then scroll down to Shiphay and Willows Community Partnership,click on again and you will find the Nightingale Park Consultation Report,June 2016.
Thanks, an interesting read.

Of course, we're all assuming that the new stadium will be at Nightingale Park. GI could reduce the period of planning consultation by building it at somewhere like Heathfield Industrial Estate near Bovey Tracey.
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Post by Bomber »

This is an example of a team who plan to move to a new stadium by 2020.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/fo ... y-13025316
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Post by Glostergull »

i read the article on everton moving. But something else stood out. the Council have approved a financial packed to help. er wot. why are they assisting one of the richest clubs in the country. imagine what the outcry would be if the council here decided to put up a financial packed for United. the council would be hung drawn and quartered.
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Post by Jerry »

Glostergull wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 02:33 i read the article on everton moving. But something else stood out. the Council have approved a financial packed to help. er wot. why are they assisting one of the richest clubs in the country. imagine what the outcry would be if the council here decided to put up a financial packed for United. the council would be hung drawn and quartered.
The council are already investing money to help multi-million pound companies relocate so why not TUFC?

http://www.devonlive.com/torbay-council ... story.html
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Post by merse btpir »

Glostergull wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 02:33 i read the article on everton moving. But something else stood out. the Council have approved a financial packed to help. er wot. why are they assisting one of the richest clubs in the country. imagine what the outcry would be if the council here decided to put up a financial packed for United.
But why shouldn't a local authority assist in the construction of a new stadium if it can be the ignition point of re-generating a particular area?

Where I live; Spurs are creating a whole new quarter around their new stadium as indeed Arsenal did when they constructed the Emirates. The danger as I see it is that the very working class environment around N17 will be systematically destroyed in favour of middle class development thus continuing in the 'social cleansing' of much if working class inner London and forcing the current inhabitants out to the dull and uninspiring suburbs and satellite towns.

The creation of a new home for Everton is designed to have just such an effect in Liverpool; as indeed did the further development of Manchester City's stadium and campus from what had initially been the Commonwealth Games build on what had been derelict and brownfield land, and the story is repeated all over the country at such places as Hull, Brighton, Swansea and is also the inspiration behind the project of upgrading St James' Park at Exeter......why does Torbay have to be so negatively different?

The real issue is not the beneficial effect for the borough and football club but the very real danger of allowing a hitherto totally failed company where stadium development is concerned, access to the community's family silver.
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Post by happytorq »

Merse is correct - it makes sense for the Council to help construction of a new stadium if they believe - and have a plan - that the are around said new stadium can be regenerated to take advantage of the additional people who will be spending time there. Assuming that any new facility will be used for non-football purposes, such as concerts, those customers will want somewhere to eat before and after, or have a pint. Those sorts of businesses all help the area, and long-term such assistance should be a pre-requisite of any new stadium planning. However, given GI's total inability to date to actually build any of the things they say the will, a certain amount of reticence is required. Nothing should be given to GI until such time as they have approved plans on the table, with guaranteed funding - if that means they have to dip in their own pockets ahead of time and wait to reap the benefits of whatever deal they get from the council, so be it.
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Post by SenorDingDong »

The majority of MLS stadiums in the United States has been developed as the core of either a sporting complex or a regeneration project with the aim of attracting bars, restaurants, hotels and decent quality apartments around it. Stadiums are quite good at pushing these kind of developments. Unfortunately there's nobody in Torbay with the commercial nous to get such a development off the ground, look at the sorry state of Torwood Street, closed for years in an ideal harbourside location and it's still no closer to being built. Hell it's a minor miracle that Abbey Sands got built and that's just one building. Exeter could do it, Bristol could (if run commercially, the city council is useless) but I doubt Torbay could pull itself out of it's stupor and manage such a development.
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Post by happytorq »

SenorDingDong wrote: 21 Jul 2017, 20:19 The majority of MLS stadiums in the United States has been developed as the core of either a sporting complex or a regeneration project with the aim of attracting bars, restaurants, hotels and decent quality apartments around it. Stadiums are quite good at pushing these kind of developments.
That's generally true, but you also have to remember that local towns and states have a lot more leeway to help companies out; e.g. they'll agree to not charge land use tax for the first 10 years, or they'll build a subway to the stadium, or they'll sell land at fair market value (in cases past they've even used eminent domain to *take* land, which is a bit off).

Torbay Council can't really do that. Plus (and this is true of any sports facility development in the US, not just for MLS) teams can - and do - threaten to leave the town entirely if they don't get these breaks. That's why, for example, the Miami Marlins build a new baseball ground that cost upwards of $600m and only paid $150m of if themselves - the rest was paid for by the county and the city. so...a private company had a 3/4 of a stadium paid for by the taxpayer, who then still has to pay to use it - that's why these deals are a lot harder to get done now in the States (that case had a pretty thorough investigation by the SEC and getting public money now is...challenging)

Given that Torbay urgently needs regeneration - a stadium could conceivably help that happen, but there's no way the council would actually pay for some of themselves; they can smooth the path and make it a bit easier, but they have a lot less power on the financial side. Except for...you know, the freehold
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Post by goody2449 »

The perfect solution for Nightingale park??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proact_Stadium

Now, anyone got £13million?????
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Post by arcadia »

We need to improve Plainmoor not move to a new stadium.
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Post by Colorado Gull »

I still don't know why TUFC needs a stadium change. Plainmoor is one of the best grounds in the Conference and easily better than most League Two grounds. The only thing we need is to improve Plainmoor and not make it so boring! Give the Popside a facelift, improve the food-outlets, improve the turnstiles, etc! Of course, I'm saying this without any funds to back up my argument and it may be more beneficial in the long-run. But in my opinion, it's just another way for GI to get 3rd, 4th or 5th time lucky in their failed business attempts. All self-effort without the club's interest at heart.
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

Question

What other revenues would a new stadium give that the old one can't. I'm talking proper revenue can't believe the local athletics club or even rugby really bring very much money in. I can't see Elton John coming to do a concert either.

Or is it GI want to own a stadium and become landlords to our club charging anything they want.

Nope not for me stay where we are
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Post by goody2449 »

Regardless of GI's intentions (which I think we are all aware are unknown at present, especially with their history) I think a new stadium will definitely generate more revenue. This is why football clubs all over the country are building new ones, from the premiership all the way down. The only venues in the south west that are available for music/comedy shows for example is Powderham Castle, and Plymouth Pavilion's. Whose to say the stadium cant have a facility to cater for that sort of thing. Food outlets like that and shops that you see at all the out of town precincts that are being build around the country, Hotel, a Crèche, swimming pool, bowling alley, indoor bowls facility, the list is endless!!

I'm aware this is all costly and its highly highly doubtful that GI or Torbay Council are going to fund anything at all, but to not consider a new stadium as a good revenue source is just narrow minded, IMO.
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