New Stadium

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westyorkshiregull
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Post by westyorkshiregull »

Ok great post though what I would say is why can't they go live the dream of doing that without our club needing to play there and using our ground as the middle piece of jigsaw. Can't stand the thought of leaving plainmoor and it be like renting a room at our new house....
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Post by Glostergull »

Funnily enough, we already have extra revenue streams at Plainmoor but we don't get the revenue from those streams. Boots and laces have been franchised off so we get less from that and I doubt the rooms under the stand have generated anything given that the school was going to use some of them.
So if we did get a new Stadium where the Landlord had built in facilities for extra revenue streams. Who would actually in practice get that revenue? the extra cost of adding this value will have to be met somehow.
And as for promises to build a new stadium. Most of us are not so blinkered as to think GI would actually fulfil the promise. extra evidence has been shown if any care to look. the incredibly short period it's supposed to happen in. yeah, 2020.
I reported way back in 2o13 that Bristol Rovers had been given permission to go ahead with a new stadium. look at where they are now. 4 years on and nothing has been started and they do have full intentions of going ahead with it.
we are unlikely to get a new stadium before 2025 even if we had Landlords who would be willing to actually build it. You say (well some do) that with the will it could be done. Wakey wakey, with the present climate in our country, there are many hurdles to overcome. planning is not the biggest by any means. Public perception is. even if we got planning and that is by no means a certainty. there are likely to be many many other obstacles in our path.
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Post by Jeff »

westyorkshiregull wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 06:27 Question

What other revenues would a new stadium give that the old one can't. I'm talking proper revenue can't believe the local athletics club or even rugby really bring very much money in. I can't see Elton John coming to do a concert either.

Or is it GI want to own a stadium and become landlords to our club charging anything they want.

Nope not for me stay where we are
If it were me in charge of building a new stadium, I'd look to build a load of fancy AstroTurf pitches adjacent to it and set up multitudes of local leagues etc. Then have a clubhouse/bar/restaurant etc that is designed to encourage all those people who participate in those leagues to stick around after for food, drinks and to watch whatever football is on the tv. I know we have that facility now, but nothing else at Plainmoor so if you are up there it is specifically for that purpose rather than harnessing the "captive audience" you'd have if you had pitches adjacent to it.

There would be other revenue streams that GI could tie in as well. I think it's Ebbsfleet who are building a new stand with a hotel/conference facility in it. That sort of thing would be another source of revenue as well.

Although Plainmoor is fit for purpose from a football side, it doesn't bring in much money on non-match days. We are slipping behind other clubs - Eastleigh for example - who are investing in facilities that bring in money 7 days a week
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Post by Dave »

The problem with Plainmoor, whilst a tidy, modern stadium, up there was best at our level, and the ground does suit our needs as a football club, regards capacity v fanbase, it has one huge problem that will never go away, the location of the ground, it's pants, and will always hold our club back now, in the modern world of football and business.

Long gone our the days when lower league clubs, could survive on gates, sponsorship, and the odd transfer payday, clubs need so much more than that to compete, with out a sugar daddy, some other clubs grasped that and have not looked back. To progress back to the level we once enjoyed, we have to move from Plainmoor.

Yes Plainmoor does have extra revenue streams, but, come on, we're talking absolute chicken feed stuff. For a start no10's, compare it's location and facilities, to say, the Hare and Hounds, Barn Owl, Toby's, and others, like the Cleave. I'd like to see it open 7 days a week, through out the year, not going pull in the trade at plainmoor.

Rent out empty office space, again, location and lack of onsite parking, hardly going to get a premium rent are we, if any takers at all. Yes Boots and laces was franchised out, but, I'm not pointing fingers or leveling criticism here, because I don't know why, the club should be in receipt of an annual franchise maintenance fee for zero over-heads, was the decision to franchise it out, borne from laziness, could no one be bothered to take responsibility for over seeing it's management, or was B+L no making that much money, I don't know. Imagine those same facilities at the Willows, easy driving into, space for more than adequate parking, and an every 5 minute bus service.

Jeff's post is spot on regards astroturf training pitch's, as many know, I coached/managed, and sat on the management committee's of 3 different local football clubs with both youth and senior set up's, the one thing they all struggled to do, was meet the annual cost of grounds maintenance, couldn't install or afford to run floodlights, or astroturf of their own, so do look to rent training pitch's , and space for good quality astroturf around the bay is short, so there is a lot of money to be made here, can't do it at plainmoor.

Having said a lot that above though, we do have a big problem here, G.I, they have an awful record of delivering new stadiums, and if they ever did build such anew stadium, would any extra revenue benefit TUFC, probably not.

A new stadium is vital, but personally don't trust the current ownership like most, so a catch 22 I guess.
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Post by Glostergull »

you've missed one. can you name what it is?
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Post by Dazza »

Why Forever do you say that you can't put an All Weather Pitch at Plainmoor?


When they become acceptable to all the football bodies ( as they surely will as the technology evolves) it seems the natural way all football clubs will go.

The car parking at Plainmoor isn't great etc but for everything bar pop concerts I don't quite see the problems that are always presented as the compelling reason why we have to move elsewhere?
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Post by Dave »

Dazza wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 19:10 Why Forever do you say that you can't put an All Weather Pitch at Plainmoor?

No reason why the club couldn't install an all weather pitch at Plainmoor. I was thinking more along the lines of a separate all weather training pitch, not sure I'd like to see what would a pitch the first team would be playing league match's on, hired out to all and sundry, 4G pitch's are not maintenance free, or free from wear and tear.

Just a personal opinion, whilst I get the benefits of an all weather pitch for league games, will always prefer grass.
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Post by Modgull »

forevertufc wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 14:53 The problem with Plainmoor, whilst a tidy, modern stadium, up there was best at our level, and the ground does suit our needs as a football club, regards capacity v fanbase, it has ..............
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Post by happytorq »

Jeff wrote: 22 Jul 2017, 10:20 If it were me in charge of building a new stadium, I'd look to build a load of fancy AstroTurf pitches adjacent to it and set up multitudes of local leagues etc. Then have a clubhouse/bar/restaurant etc that is designed to encourage all those people who participate in those leagues to stick around after for food, drinks and to watch whatever football is on the tv.

I think this would be the way to go, for sure - although now you're making the footprint of the development significantly larger, which will make finding the land a lot more challenging. I think there's also space for another facility for live music and other shows (other than the Princess Theatre - do they still have stuff at the Riviera Centre?). There are more bands touring now than ever before, because that's where they're making their money. now. So, if a stadium could be designed with a decent capacity - 3,000, say - hat would definitely help.

But I wouldn't want to think about all that unless the stadium is owned by the club itself, rather than a third party looking to make bank off it and not use that money for the club.
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Post by merse btpir »

happytorq wrote: 24 Jul 2017, 21:42 I wouldn't want to think about all that unless the stadium is owned by the club itself, rather than a third party looking to make bank off it and not use that money for the club.
You have to look beyond that and not be so naïve as to miss the point that 'the club' is owned by who? You know the answer to that so why are you so blinkered and easily taken in?
Last edited by merse btpir on 24 Jul 2017, 22:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by happytorq »

merse btpir wrote: 24 Jul 2017, 21:51 You have to look beyond that and not be so naïve as to miss the point that 'the club' is owned by who? You now the answer to that so why are you so blinkered and easily taken in?
I haven't missed the point at all.

If a club owns the stadium, rather than rents it from, ooh, I dunno, GI, say, it's easier to funnel that revenue back into to the club. Any profit from the stadium will belong to the club itself, not to the Landlord. Yes, there's still the chance that whoever happens to own the club has nefarious goals of their own, but the business entity that is the club will get the profits directly. And, obviously, tying the ownership of the club with the ownership of the stadium means that you it's a lot harder to separate the two, which is clearly what GI are trying to achieve.

My suggestion above about the club owning the stadium means that I don't want any stadium plans while Gaming International at the helm. I rather thought that was obvious from my post, but maybe I was wrong.

Also, I think you meant "know", not "now" :)
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Post by merse btpir »

'The club' is owned by Riviera Stadium Ltd; sole shareholder Clarke Osborne.

Riviera Stadium Ltd is just one of his many companies (including gaming International) under the Toklon banner ~ company secretary Stephen Hayward son of Norman Hayward former owner of AFC Bournemouth and then Yeovil Town FCs; and Clarke Osborne being the sole directors of that. So if the club rents the stadium from Gaming International it is renting it from who? None other than Osborne of course.

The whole point that needs constant observation of is when Osborne decides to dispose of Riviera Stadium Ltd and with it Torquay United as he surely will once he has used it as a vehicle for achieving his greater goal.
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Post by goody2449 »

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/plymout ... story.html

Seems even Argyle are looking at improving their stadium, will people of TUFC/ Torquay ever wake up and see its needed
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Post by goody2449 »

I’m by no means a GI fan and I find their proposal of a new stadium within 3 years slightly laughable, BUT, I for one believe a new stadium is needed for the good and benefit of the club whether they are in charge of the club or not. I appreciate it won’t be easy or cheap and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but this is mine.
Yes it would cost a lot of money
Yes the council/national lottery/Arab sugar daddy would have to help finance it,
But a new leisure complex incorporating a stadium at nightingale park (or elsewhere) will be the best thing that has happened to TUFC and Torbay as whole for 50 years.
Just the general construction and development of the area will produce jobs for the dwindling south west construction industry. The facilities provided will then produce hundreds of jobs thereafter.
The commercial side of TUFC at present will have to dramatically improve for this to be successful and I for one would suggest that the personnel in these positions at the minute are definitely not capable arranging such a project,
The list of facilities for the new complex is endless and only limited by people’s imagination (and probably budget), just a few are as follows
Hotel
Shops
Restaurants/ pub
Bowling alley
Indoor bowls
Creche/ nursery/ pre-school
Office units
Conference centre/ Theatre hall
4g pitches (5 a side)
Leisure centre including Tennis/badminton courts, Netball/basketball courts, Gymnasium, Spa, Sports hall
Users of the facility can include schools, local sports teams, residents. The TUFC community guys will have a centre that they can use 7 days a week.
The TUFC brand would be everywhere and within 5 years the complex would probably pay for itself by bringing more people/business to the bay.
We’ve spend millions on a new by pass to open the bay up to more people and improve the infrastructure but have done nothing to encourage people to actually drive down the dam thing. A new facility will only encourage more businesses to invest in the area improving the poor economic situation we find the bay in now.
Exeter chiefs are 20 minutes up the road, ask their fans how their 5-year plans going???
Premiership champions after 3 speaks for itself.
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Post by merse btpir »

None of what you write is dismissed; however you ~ like Dave Thomas in the Herald Express ~ stubbornly or inadvertently ~ neglect to acknowledge the elephant in the room. Namely that Clarke Osborne has not once delivered a single opened and operating project in over thirty years of promising and renaging on such projects; and as it is he who is the proponent in such a vision the whole thing is rendered invalid!
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