TRIALISTS

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merse btpir
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Post by merse btpir »

SBP wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 12:14 I don't understand why it is said that we need a big strong striker. Many of the young u6 up to u13 players(if they are at a switched on club) are taught to play a passing game from the keeper, learning how to pass and move and create spaces. Opposition teams have to retreat to the halfway line in the young age groups upto u10(I think). This develops a players passing ability, movement etc etc.
So most of todays players have hopefully come through this kind of coaching so they are generally familiar with this. So why then is there a need to launch a ball at a lone striker?? We have seen it time and time again and it brings little reward.
Hallelujah; at last recognition from the footballing backwater that is Torquay that the club has had a succession of past their sell by 'managers' (ever since the loss of Martin Ling) playing antediluvian football and appointed by buffoons with not a clue as to what coaching expertise there actually is out there, the methods they use or the manner in which the development game is constituted these days.

Knill, Hargreaves, Cox and Nicholson have been dreadful in their manner of playing the game ~ it's as if they have learned nothing since their playing days!
SBP wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 12:14 From what I can see under Nico he likes to play very direct most of the time, so does that mean he doesn't think we can play out from the back?? Does he not trust our midfield to pass?? It doesn't seem like it. Under Ling the first option was can Bobby O distribute the ball to feet to a full back or wide player safely and quickly. This was a directive from the coaching staff. It was very effective and we did extremely well from it.
When Brendan Moore first arrived his distribution was mainly by hand; accurate, fast and to players in space. By the time last season had commenced all that had gone by the board and he was gifting the ball back to the opposition with pointless kicking...who was responsible for that?

Sean McGinty has been a million pound footballer but look how he begins almost every game.....gifting a long hoick back to the opposition either straight to them or by way of a throw in because he has hoofed the ball into touch. Pathetic!

Nicholson and Herrera haven't got a bloody clue!
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Post by SBP »

I remember watching the home game against a very good Shrewsbury side, maybe 6-7 years ago when we beat them 5 or 6 nil. That game was one of the best performances of passing and movement i have seen. I can hear the chants now of " whats the score Nicky".
Everybody knew what they were doing and what role they had.
You could argue under Ling all he had to concern himself about was football, there was money there as well. Off the field events that Nicholson has had to deal with cannot be easy. I dont think that many other managers could have dealt with what he's had to endure, having said that i do agree his management and direction has been clueless.
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Post by timmax »

Having a big man up top doesn't mean you cant play a passing game. Lincoln had Rhead but didn't just launch the ball to him. Akinde at Barnet is another example. Even the tactical genious Conti played Pelle upfront when Italy coach so there is always a place for them in my team. That aside I dont think any of our current squad will get past 10 goals this season so a goalscorer is needed and I dont care if he is 5ft or 7ft tall.
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Post by nickbrod »

For what it's worth I reckon a lot of experienced (that's the key word) managers would have been more forthright in their handling of the various off the field matters at TQ1.
I really hope we're going to see a better style of football this year. After the first 10 games we will see what direction the manager is taking us. For me the jury's still out.
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Post by arcadia »

SBP wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 12:14 I don't understand why it is said that we need a big strong striker. Many of the young u6 up to u13 players(if they are at a switched on club) are taught to play a passing game from the keeper, learning how to pass and move and create spaces. Opposition teams have to retreat to the halfway line in the young age groups upto u10(I think). This develops a players passing ability, movement etc etc.
So most of todays players have hopefully come through this kind of coaching so they are generally familiar with this. So why then is there a need to launch a ball at a lone striker?? We have seen it time and time again and it brings little reward.
Remember Karl Hawley, yes I know he cost us a fortune and wasn't great however look at how he was used. We use to launch the ball at him at 100mph at head or chest height, ineffective and what's he suppose to do. Rene Howe, exactly the same, Rene was obviously are better footballer but he played that lone role on many occasions, even at home which use to drive me mad.
Over the last few seasons we don't seem to have a game plan or any idea of how we should be playing. Players are lost and seem clueless to what to do or how to play. I think Sam Chaney is a good example of that. He has talent, but is he played in a role that is beneficial to him and the team??
From what I can see under Nico he likes to play very direct most of the time, so does that mean he doesn't think we can play out from the back?? Does he not trust our midfield to pass?? It doesn't seem like it.
Under Ling the first option was can Bobby O distribute the ball to feet to a full back or wide player safely and quickly. This was a directive from the coaching staff. It was very effective and we did extremely well from it.

With the players Nicho had at the back last season how could you play out from the back. Both fullbacks struggled confidence was low and you seen that the ball was like a hot potato.
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Post by Flipper »

merse btpir wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 12:38 Hallelujah; at last recognition from the footballing backwater that is Torquay that the club has had a succession of past their sell by 'managers' (ever since the loss of Martin Ling) playing antediluvian football and appointed by buffoons with not a clue as to what coaching expertise there actually is out there, the methods they use or the manner in which the development game is constituted these days.

Knill, Hargreaves, Cox and Nicholson have been dreadful in their manner of playing the game ~ it's as if they have learned nothing since their playing days!
When Brendan Moore first arrived his distribution was mainly by hand; accurate, fast and to players in space. By the time last season had commenced all that had gone by the board and he was gifting the ball back to the opposition with pointless kicking...who was responsible for that?

Sean McGinty has been a million pound footballer but look how he begins almost every game.....gifting a long hoick back to the opposition either straight to them or by way of a throw in because he has hoofed the ball into touch. Pathetic!

Nicholson and Herrera haven't got a bloody clue!
And you have a clue because you've played where exactly ?

Any sort of passing game is wasted in this league and the teams that do well consistently are the big physical teams. And why do you think that McGinty the "million pound footballer" is playing at Torquay. Moore used to throw it because he can't kick it properly and never could do. To pay a sweeping style of football you need the players to do so and on the budget we have you just can't get those players.

At the end of the day if Torquay were to have a great season, wishful thinking perhaps, but if they did and got promoted do you really think anyone would care ? I wouldn't !
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Post by arcadia »

Nicho has very little choice he has got to play a stile to suite the players he can afford. Playing one up front is a good solid way to play so long as your midfield has the pace and strength to support the striker.
Every game in this league is very tight and if you can keep it tight at the back you always have a chance to win, the last few seasons it's not until the end of the season do we finally wake up. Nicho needs to throw a few cups and wake the players up at the start of the season. As this could be his last throw of the dice.
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Post by Flipper »

Agreed
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Post by Colorado Gull »

A big striker and a smaller, quicker forward alongside is still the best tactic, especially in this league, in my opinion. Worked brilliantly with Sills and Benyon and traditionally worked well throughout the years.
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Post by Flipper »

"Makes you wonder what on earth they teach at the UEFA coaching centres. Problem is that most of it is 'distant learning' - a joke really when you think of how much presence (both professional and social) a manager of a professional football team has."

Has no relevance to what or how the managers and their staff coach. They just need the badges so that they can.
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Post by arcadia »

We did miss Moores throws last season it gave us control of the ball the previous one.
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Post by chardie »

threelittlepiglets wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 15:30 Had to endure? I think a massive factor is that his wife and kids have substantial lives locally in the bay. its an ideal job, even if he shovels shit from the toilets... at times you have wonder if he is just about 'words', 'words' and oh... more 'words' all just to cling on to that convenient job.
That post says much more about the type of person you are than it does about KN.
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Post by desperado »

A big man up front is a useful option, as Timmax says it doesnt mean you lump it up to him all match, though
that is the temptation for players who lack belief. Forest Green had two runners up seasons with Parkin
up front but still played very good football
Its how you use the big man that matters
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Post by desperado »

FGR were 5th in 14/15 and 2nd in 15/16 to be accurate
merse btpir
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Post by merse btpir »

Flipper wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 14:43 And you have a clue because you've played where exactly ?


I managed a project last season which got six u16s into scholar pro' contracts for the next two years. I know the type of footballer that can achieve that and I know the difficulties they have when they graduate from those two years and then have to try and succeed under inferior coaches to those that have got them there.

Does it really make sense to invest in development and then throw the results at the wall because the guy in charge of the first team hasn't a ruddy clue?
Flipper wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 14:43 Any sort of passing game is wasted in this league and the teams that do well consistently are the big physical teams.
Who went up last season and did they play as you claim? No! Were they managed/coached by time served personnel rather than favoured old pro's of the fans/directors? Yes!
Flipper wrote: 11 Jul 2017, 14:43 And why do you think that McGinty the "million pound footballer" is playing at Torquay. Moore used to throw it because he can't kick it properly and never could do. To pay a sweeping style of football you need the players to do so and on the budget we have you just can't get those players.


McGinty is playing at Torquay because he couldn't behave himself in the manner of a Manchester United player and got thrown out. If he retains the ability he had which got him there in the first place then hoofing the ruddy ball straight into touch at the kick-off isn't the way to go about it...and if Moore 'can't kick' then why tell him to instead of allowing him to play to his strengths?

Budget has nothing to do with footballing ethos. The clubs I mention earlier in the thread ~ Wingate & Finchley and Dulwich Hamlet ~ are two extremely low budget clubs and I saw Hamlet play two National League sides ~ Macclesfield and Braintree ~ off the park last season!
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